<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/1.5.1-alpha" -->
<rss version="2.0" 
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/">
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Careful what you wish for</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/02/careful-what-you-wish-for/</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 23:11:17 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.1-alpha</generator>

	<item>
		<title>by: Amanda Marcotte</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/02/careful-what-you-wish-for/#comment-467563</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 09:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/02/careful-what-you-wish-for/#comment-467563</guid>
					<description>I'm closing comments on this post.  It's becoming clear that paid commenters are likely spamming this post with pro-Paul propaganda, and I won't be playing host to that. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;m closing comments on this post.  It&#8217;s becoming clear that paid commenters are likely spamming this post with pro-Paul propaganda, and I won&#8217;t be playing host to that.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: ed helmstetter</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/02/careful-what-you-wish-for/#comment-467533</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 22:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/02/careful-what-you-wish-for/#comment-467533</guid>
					<description>please all you anti ron paul people-please post which candidate you support...i can`t wait to read your reasoning on why you support your candidate</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>please all you anti ron paul people-please post which candidate you support&#8230;i can`t wait to read your reasoning on why you support your candidate
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: t.w.</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/02/careful-what-you-wish-for/#comment-467333</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 20:15:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/02/careful-what-you-wish-for/#comment-467333</guid>
					<description>I consider myself at least a small-'l' libertarian, and I know a lot of other people like me who don't think Paul is a libertarian at all.  Personally I think the net effect of his positions would be terrible for civil liberties.  I don't think he is a nutjob; I think he is a very smart man who is personally likable and grandfatherly, and is also trying to convince people that the 14th amendment -- and the reasons it was ratified -- never happened.  He also has serious, stereotypically right-wing issues with unenumerated rights (e.g. abortion), and acts as if that's a perfectly sensible constitutional interpretation.  

Here is a link to a page from the Annals of Congress, showing part of the original debate in the House in 1789 over the wording of what is now the 1st amendment: http://memory.loc.gov/ll/llac/001/0300/03820759.tif
  
Does it seem to you as if Ron Paul's position on unenumerated rights would be remotely comprehensible to those people?  Many liberal legal scholars would not give a damn what people two centuries ago thought about unenumerated rights, and they are generally sane people arguing in good faith, but that's not the sort of language I am hearing from Paul (libertarians are often, but are certainly not somehow mystically required to be, some sort of originalists).

He just doesn't smell like a libertarian to me, or really to anyone I have personally talked to about him, for that matter.

My apologies to any lawyers in the audience who are twitching at all the gaps in my story here -- sorry -- I was trying to be clear and terse!  (yeah right, on that last one, I know)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I consider myself at least a small-&#8217;l&#8217; libertarian, and I know a lot of other people like me who don&#8217;t think Paul is a libertarian at all.  Personally I think the net effect of his positions would be terrible for civil liberties.  I don&#8217;t think he is a nutjob; I think he is a very smart man who is personally likable and grandfatherly, and is also trying to convince people that the 14th amendment &#8212; and the reasons it was ratified &#8212; never happened.  He also has serious, stereotypically right-wing issues with unenumerated rights (e.g. abortion), and acts as if that&#8217;s a perfectly sensible constitutional interpretation.  </p>
	<p>Here is a link to a page from the Annals of Congress, showing part of the original debate in the House in 1789 over the wording of what is now the 1st amendment: <a href='http://memory.loc.gov/ll/llac/001/0300/03820759.tif' rel='nofollow'>http://memory.loc.gov/ll/llac/001/0300/03820759.tif</a></p>
	<p>Does it seem to you as if Ron Paul&#8217;s position on unenumerated rights would be remotely comprehensible to those people?  Many liberal legal scholars would not give a damn what people two centuries ago thought about unenumerated rights, and they are generally sane people arguing in good faith, but that&#8217;s not the sort of language I am hearing from Paul (libertarians are often, but are certainly not somehow mystically required to be, some sort of originalists).</p>
	<p>He just doesn&#8217;t smell like a libertarian to me, or really to anyone I have personally talked to about him, for that matter.</p>
	<p>My apologies to any lawyers in the audience who are twitching at all the gaps in my story here &#8212; sorry &#8212; I was trying to be clear and terse!  (yeah right, on that last one, I know)
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Dale Legan</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/02/careful-what-you-wish-for/#comment-467300</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 17:43:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/02/careful-what-you-wish-for/#comment-467300</guid>
					<description>John F. Kennedy was for returning the Gold Standard!  He was about to sign an executive order before he was murdered.  Was JFK a loon also. ?

Marqui and Reprisal means = GOING AFTER BIN LADIN.  If the mafia attacks you you don't invade Italy.

First they laugh at you.
then they attack you.
then you win.,
Ghandi.
we are in attack mode now..


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>John F. Kennedy was for returning the Gold Standard!  He was about to sign an executive order before he was murdered.  Was JFK a loon also. ?</p>
	<p>Marqui and Reprisal means = GOING AFTER BIN LADIN.  If the mafia attacks you you don&#8217;t invade Italy.</p>
	<p>First they laugh at you.<br />
then they attack you.<br />
then you win.,<br />
Ghandi.<br />
we are in attack mode now..
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: jes. anarchist. lover/fighter, not a hater</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/02/careful-what-you-wish-for/#comment-467276</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 16:08:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/02/careful-what-you-wish-for/#comment-467276</guid>
					<description>it's very disheartening and sad to see so many short responses that are volatile and slandering. that really says a lot about the people who wrote them and where they stand on the issues they claim to support. 
i started off a green when becoming politically involved. it was easy for me to turn libertarian when i started to study the history and tactics behind government intervention. it did not live up to my expectations and practices as i myself engaged in as an individual in my own life. i support dr paul on principle. those who claim he is racist or bigoted are only perpetuating a problem of hate. the world is beyond race and gender. lets move into this age of ideas and information. these are the pressing issues. if one doesn't recognize that you are living in the past.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>it&#8217;s very disheartening and sad to see so many short responses that are volatile and slandering. that really says a lot about the people who wrote them and where they stand on the issues they claim to support.<br />
i started off a green when becoming politically involved. it was easy for me to turn libertarian when i started to study the history and tactics behind government intervention. it did not live up to my expectations and practices as i myself engaged in as an individual in my own life. i support dr paul on principle. those who claim he is racist or bigoted are only perpetuating a problem of hate. the world is beyond race and gender. lets move into this age of ideas and information. these are the pressing issues. if one doesn&#8217;t recognize that you are living in the past.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: ms</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/02/careful-what-you-wish-for/#comment-467245</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 13:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/02/careful-what-you-wish-for/#comment-467245</guid>
					<description>&quot;I probably wouldn’t actually post anything if I weren’t under such deadline pressure.&quot;
 um, is someone paying you to post things against 
dr. paul?
 it's true that the smear campaign has begun.
 alas. i suppose it's why the simpletons get elected, those
who's ideas can be distorted and taken out of context
are easily mislabeled and maligned. 
it begins. i hope dr. paul's supporters can persevere. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;I probably wouldn’t actually post anything if I weren’t under such deadline pressure.&#8221;<br />
 um, is someone paying you to post things against<br />
dr. paul?<br />
 it&#8217;s true that the smear campaign has begun.<br />
 alas. i suppose it&#8217;s why the simpletons get elected, those<br />
who&#8217;s ideas can be distorted and taken out of context<br />
are easily mislabeled and maligned.<br />
it begins. i hope dr. paul&#8217;s supporters can persevere.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Demosthenes</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/02/careful-what-you-wish-for/#comment-467228</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 11:34:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/02/careful-what-you-wish-for/#comment-467228</guid>
					<description>Wow!  So many misconceptions.  Where to start?

How about &quot;Ron Paul the Isolationist&quot;?  Paul is on record as saying we should not be the &quot;world's policeman&quot;.  He echoes George Washington's warning against &quot;entangling alliances&quot; and advocates &quot;free trade with all&quot;.  He opposes the current interventionist foreign policy and he doesn't think we should tax Americans and send their money overseas.  He thinks we should get out of the U.N. Those of you who think this is a bad idea should consider that half of the reason for invading Iraq was to enforce U.N. resolutions.  (The other half was to search for WMD.)

How about a real live-wire issue: Abortion.  Ron Paul is an OB/GYN.  He's delivered over 4000 babies. His personal opposition to abortion crystalized when he witnessed a live newborn tossed in a bucket to die. Paul opposes the &quot;Roe v. Wade&quot; decision - but not on the grounds that he personally opposes abortion. Abortion is NOT a federal issue.  It's not mentioned in the Constitution and it is properly handled at the state level.  This might result in some states banning abortion, while others permit it.  Paul is aware of this.

There has been mention of Paul being &quot;tin foil hat&quot; crazy for supporting a return to the gold standard. Paul, as an avid student and author in the field of economics probably has a better grip on this issue than ANY candidate. One example I've seen of the folly of fiat money is that a dollar used to buy 4 gallons of gas. The silver dollars in circulation at that time would still buy 4 gallons of gas at today's rates - but the fiat paper money we call the &quot;American Dollar&quot; will only buy about 1/3 of a gallon.  Think about that next time you fill up.  Had we stayed on the silver/gold standard, you'd be paying 12 times less for gas.  Ironically, the advantages of the fiat dollar accrue to groups you probably oppose - like the military industrial complex.  A precious metal standard eliminates the ability of the power elite to erode your income.

Let's see... oh!  Socialized medicine.  Paul points out that in every other field where technology makes great strides, costs go down.  Your computer costs a tiny fraction of what comparable machines cost even 10 years ago. Cell phones are so cheap that they're used as promotional items. Compare them to the huge bricks that were the earlier versions and which cost many times as much - even neglecting inflation.  But what about medicine?  The costs go up, and up, and up. Paul says the government is part of this problem.  How can that be?  Well, for starters, look at the prescription drug &quot;benefit&quot;. Part of the legislation prohibits the government from buying drugs from cheaper sources.  That is, the price of the drugs is artificially inflated by the legislation itself!  So who does this help?  The patient who needs the drugs but isn't yet covered?  Or the Drug Companies, who now have a guaranteed profit for their drugs?

I know these issues are only the tip of the iceberg, but if your mind is open, do your own research. Impartial investigation will show that Ron Paul is a principled man dedicated to peace and freedom for Americans.

That's a platform I can accept.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Wow!  So many misconceptions.  Where to start?</p>
	<p>How about &#8220;Ron Paul the Isolationist&#8221;?  Paul is on record as saying we should not be the &#8220;world&#8217;s policeman&#8221;.  He echoes George Washington&#8217;s warning against &#8220;entangling alliances&#8221; and advocates &#8220;free trade with all&#8221;.  He opposes the current interventionist foreign policy and he doesn&#8217;t think we should tax Americans and send their money overseas.  He thinks we should get out of the U.N. Those of you who think this is a bad idea should consider that half of the reason for invading Iraq was to enforce U.N. resolutions.  (The other half was to search for WMD.)</p>
	<p>How about a real live-wire issue: Abortion.  Ron Paul is an OB/GYN.  He&#8217;s delivered over 4000 babies. His personal opposition to abortion crystalized when he witnessed a live newborn tossed in a bucket to die. Paul opposes the &#8220;Roe v. Wade&#8221; decision - but not on the grounds that he personally opposes abortion. Abortion is NOT a federal issue.  It&#8217;s not mentioned in the Constitution and it is properly handled at the state level.  This might result in some states banning abortion, while others permit it.  Paul is aware of this.</p>
	<p>There has been mention of Paul being &#8220;tin foil hat&#8221; crazy for supporting a return to the gold standard. Paul, as an avid student and author in the field of economics probably has a better grip on this issue than ANY candidate. One example I&#8217;ve seen of the folly of fiat money is that a dollar used to buy 4 gallons of gas. The silver dollars in circulation at that time would still buy 4 gallons of gas at today&#8217;s rates - but the fiat paper money we call the &#8220;American Dollar&#8221; will only buy about 1/3 of a gallon.  Think about that next time you fill up.  Had we stayed on the silver/gold standard, you&#8217;d be paying 12 times less for gas.  Ironically, the advantages of the fiat dollar accrue to groups you probably oppose - like the military industrial complex.  A precious metal standard eliminates the ability of the power elite to erode your income.</p>
	<p>Let&#8217;s see&#8230; oh!  Socialized medicine.  Paul points out that in every other field where technology makes great strides, costs go down.  Your computer costs a tiny fraction of what comparable machines cost even 10 years ago. Cell phones are so cheap that they&#8217;re used as promotional items. Compare them to the huge bricks that were the earlier versions and which cost many times as much - even neglecting inflation.  But what about medicine?  The costs go up, and up, and up. Paul says the government is part of this problem.  How can that be?  Well, for starters, look at the prescription drug &#8220;benefit&#8221;. Part of the legislation prohibits the government from buying drugs from cheaper sources.  That is, the price of the drugs is artificially inflated by the legislation itself!  So who does this help?  The patient who needs the drugs but isn&#8217;t yet covered?  Or the Drug Companies, who now have a guaranteed profit for their drugs?</p>
	<p>I know these issues are only the tip of the iceberg, but if your mind is open, do your own research. Impartial investigation will show that Ron Paul is a principled man dedicated to peace and freedom for Americans.</p>
	<p>That&#8217;s a platform I can accept.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/02/careful-what-you-wish-for/#comment-467208</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 05:48:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/02/careful-what-you-wish-for/#comment-467208</guid>
					<description>&quot;When Ron Paul thinks as much about the civil liberties of pregnant women...&quot;

He does, and he also thinks about the civil liberties of the unborn human as well :^D

Regardless, he's against federal legislation concerning abortion, which means he'd veto any anti-abortion bills from Congress.  That means you can take your blinders off and pull your earplugs out and take another look at the guy.


Which reminds me - Why do so many people say, &quot;Nope, I ain't gonna listen no more!&quot; when they find a single issue they don't like?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;When Ron Paul thinks as much about the civil liberties of pregnant women&#8230;&#8221;</p>
	<p>He does, and he also thinks about the civil liberties of the unborn human as well :^D</p>
	<p>Regardless, he&#8217;s against federal legislation concerning abortion, which means he&#8217;d veto any anti-abortion bills from Congress.  That means you can take your blinders off and pull your earplugs out and take another look at the guy.</p>
	<p>Which reminds me - Why do so many people say, &#8220;Nope, I ain&#8217;t gonna listen no more!&#8221; when they find a single issue they don&#8217;t like?
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: tzs</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/02/careful-what-you-wish-for/#comment-464577</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 16:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/02/careful-what-you-wish-for/#comment-464577</guid>
					<description>When Ron Paul thinks as much about the civil liberties of pregnant women as he does for the rest of people bearing civil liberties, then I might consider.

Until then, I hold myself in abeyance.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>When Ron Paul thinks as much about the civil liberties of pregnant women as he does for the rest of people bearing civil liberties, then I might consider.</p>
	<p>Until then, I hold myself in abeyance.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
	<item>
		<title>by: Numad</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/02/careful-what-you-wish-for/#comment-464298</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 16:06:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/11/02/careful-what-you-wish-for/#comment-464298</guid>
					<description>I was commenting on a kind of rethorical device that's notably absent from Bob Murphy's posts. Thank you.

It's not like you can't feign to be bringing obscure knowledge/The Good News and bring a lot of handwaving along as well, though. And a lot of that there was, yes indeed.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I was commenting on a kind of rethorical device that&#8217;s notably absent from Bob Murphy&#8217;s posts. Thank you.</p>
	<p>It&#8217;s not like you can&#8217;t feign to be bringing obscure knowledge/The Good News and bring a lot of handwaving along as well, though. And a lot of that there was, yes indeed.
</p>
]]></content:encoded>
				</item>
</channel>
</rss>
