Comments on: Dallas pastor: Mitt’s not qualified to be prez because he’s not a Christian

by: Dilan Esper

Thu, 29 Nov 2007 15:06:02 +0000

The problem is that most of the world’s Christians don’t define Christianity as a “personal relationship with Jesus” (that’s an American evangelical thing) but, as a narrowly understood belief about the Trinitarian nature of God.

I don’t agree with this at all. This is how the hierarchies of certain Christian sects, along with some very devout believers (a very small percentage of all who label themselves Christians) define it.

It is worth remembering that most believers don’t believe in half the stuff that the hierarchy of whatever Church they worship in (if they worship in any Church at all) believes in. Most believers have no opinion one way or the other on the nature of the Trinity; that is an argument among theologians which ordinary believers don’t give a crap about.

What unites Christians is that they believe that Jesus is a deity and not simply a human being, a prophet, a messenger, etc. Beyond that, their beliefs are all over the place, if they even have them.

And the desire to kick Mormons out of Christianity is nothing more than bigotry. I say this as an agnostic with no horse in this race, but the thing that REALLY bugs evangelicals about Mormons is that they are so successful, building a Church of 13 million members in just a couple of centuries. They are a threat.

by: Irene M.

Mon, 22 Oct 2007 15:44:15 +0100

//believe that being baptized and forgiven of one’s sins, repentance and penance, and all that such stuff. Those who say they’re not are simply ignorant.//

Speaking as a former Mormon, I agree with you that LDS certainly do believe that. There are certain Christians sects that should then accepts LDS as Christians. The problem is that most of the world’s Christians don’t define Christianity as a “personal relationship with Jesus” (that’s an American evangelical thing) but, as a narrowly understood belief about the Trinitarian nature of God. That means that Mormons would not be considered Christians by most of the world’s Christians but, should certainly be considered such by more American Protestants.

Don’t mean to offend but this fact needed to be pointed out.

by: Sara Pulis

Mon, 22 Oct 2007 03:18:31 +0100

Ex-Mormon here. Mormons are Christians. Their religion believes everything the other Protestants do, but they added some extra stories about how Jeebus flew to the Americas to do a little bit of savin’. They believe that being baptized and forgiven of one’s sins, repentance and penance, and all that such stuff. Those who say they’re not are simply ignorant.

by: MikeEss

Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:46:05 +0100

“This kind of infighting is a major reason why the founding generations of our nation embraced the concept, with more or less enthusiasm to be sure. They had plenty experience with different colonial/state governments having different “established churches” as well as citizens within these states getting at loggerheads with whichever established church they were saddled with.”

The rise of blatant public religious bigotry is yet more evidence of the decline of intelligent thought in America. (along with many other things occurring over the last several decades…)

If we are so blind to the history of religious bigotry that some of can forget (or ignore) one of the single more important founding principles of this country, is there any hope for us?

Do we need (AGAIN!) years of civil war and bloodshed to remind us of one of the most basic truths of human existence?…

by: Mark Foxwell

Sun, 21 Oct 2007 10:37:00 +0100

I hope the major lesson for all reasonable and good-willed people of whatever convictions on spiritual matters is that a secular society in which the faiths of individuals should be held irrelevant in public matters so long as those individuals don’t seek to impose their private views on others is a very good thing for everyone.

This kind of infighting is a major reason why the founding generations of our nation embraced the concept, with more or less enthusiasm to be sure. They had plenty experience with different colonial/state governments having different “established churches” as well as citizens within these states getting at loggerheads with whichever established church they were saddled with.

by: bernarda

Sun, 21 Oct 2007 06:54:26 +0100

Julia Sweeney explains a bit about Mormonism in the last part of this sketch at TEDtalks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtIyx687ytk

by: angryyoungwoman

Sun, 21 Oct 2007 01:36:28 +0100

Oh yeah, just to make clear, “grifting” isn’t part of our religion. I’ve never even heard of it as part of the weirdo polygamist fundie splinter groups that call themselves Mormon (they might be doing it, though–they tend to think that anyone who disagrees with them deserves what they get).

by: angryyoungwoman

Sat, 20 Oct 2007 23:41:54 +0100

You know, I’m Mormon and I consider myself a follower of Christ. I think Mitt Romney has done a great disservice to Mormons, though, because he makes it appear that Mormons are uberconservative, patriarchal, and uncaring about the poor. I’ll admit in the mountain-west US (my home), most Mormons are conservative (most everybody is conservative), but Mormons live all over the world and many (including myself) are more favorable to liberal ideas and issues.

by: ks, queen mother of the peach pie

Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:45:54 +0100

I don’t consider myself a christian these days, either. But I was raised catholic (which some protestant denominations also don’t consider christian) and basically I was taught that christianity meant followers of Christ. In other words, christians are people who believe in god and follow the teaching of Jesus, whether they believed in his divinity, the holy spirit, or whatever. But that’s just me and the way I learned it (officially, in ccd even), and I’m sure that lots would disagree.

Plus, when I refer to “Christians” in general, I usually mean the crazy, fundie type, not the general “follower of Christ” type.

by: Dave Pooser

Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:13:40 +0100

An analogy:
Is Lyndon LaRouche a Democrat? He has run for office as a Democrat, he opposed the impeachment of Bill Clinton and the Iraq war, he’s endorsed John Conyers’ United States National Health Insurance Act (Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act), and opposed telecom deregulation. So he’s a Democrat, right?

Nope. Even though he has claimed to be a Democrat, he holds enough opinions that run counter to our core beliefs (global warming as hoax, opposition to the UN) and that are just plain weird (Queen of England as head of an international drug cartel) that most rational people realize that he’s not a Democrat, he just claims it for his own convenience, and without being faithful to our core beliefs he can’t be considered a real Democrat.

As a Christian, my take on the LDS fits my take on LaRouche (as a Democrat) pretty well. I’m not saying Mormons are bad people. I’m saying they aren’t Christians, as Christianity has been defined for the last two millennia.