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	<title>Comments on: The cannon fodder factories are getting surly again</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/16/6191/</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 14:32:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: cluft</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/16/6191/#comment-459863</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 17:01:40 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/16/6191/#comment-459863</guid>
					<description>Just a minor rant from a food-service veteran on the obliviousness of Hemingway and his fellow denigrators regarding Dana's &quot;bad choice&quot; to take a job at a &quot;...restaurant that didn't have health insurance.&quot; As far as I'm aware, unless one works for a hotel or larger entity, NO restaurants (at least not in the states I've worked in) offer any sort of insurance coverage.  That's par for the course.  The country club seems to have been an anomaly, obviously operating on a different contract from stand-alone restaurants.

He obviously has no idea what kinds of jobs people actually work in this country, and what kinds of conditions workers put up with in order to draw a regular paycheck (or, in the case of restaurant work, tips at the end of one's shift.)

In comparison to Hemingway's cruel takedown, Marie Antoinette's &quot;Let them eat cake&quot; seems almost quaint, with its implication that perhaps she was naive enough to think peasants had that option.  Hemingway is most clearly saying &quot;Let them starve.&quot;

Ucch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Just a minor rant from a food-service veteran on the obliviousness of Hemingway and his fellow denigrators regarding Dana&#8217;s &#8220;bad choice&#8221; to take a job at a &#8220;&#8230;restaurant that didn&#8217;t have health insurance.&#8221; As far as I&#8217;m aware, unless one works for a hotel or larger entity, NO restaurants (at least not in the states I&#8217;ve worked in) offer any sort of insurance coverage.  That&#8217;s par for the course.  The country club seems to have been an anomaly, obviously operating on a different contract from stand-alone restaurants.</p>
	<p>He obviously has no idea what kinds of jobs people actually work in this country, and what kinds of conditions workers put up with in order to draw a regular paycheck (or, in the case of restaurant work, tips at the end of one&#8217;s shift.)</p>
	<p>In comparison to Hemingway&#8217;s cruel takedown, Marie Antoinette&#8217;s &#8220;Let them eat cake&#8221; seems almost quaint, with its implication that perhaps she was naive enough to think peasants had that option.  Hemingway is most clearly saying &#8220;Let them starve.&#8221;</p>
	<p>Ucch.
</p>
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		<title>by: Raine</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/16/6191/#comment-459440</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 10:57:28 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/16/6191/#comment-459440</guid>
					<description>&quot;they are no longer so special and their own delusions of superiority are shattered.&quot;

As a certain folk-singer once said, &quot;Everyone is a fucking Napoleon.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;they are no longer so special and their own delusions of superiority are shattered.&#8221;</p>
	<p>As a certain folk-singer once said, &#8220;Everyone is a fucking Napoleon.&#8221;
</p>
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		<title>by: exholt</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/16/6191/#comment-459396</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 00:00:05 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/16/6191/#comment-459396</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;It would appear that conservatives even have the same goal, except that for many of them it seems as if they want it going in the other direction.&lt;/i&gt;

The larger the underclass/&quot;hoi polloi&quot;/&quot;riff raff&quot;, the greater the accentuation of their own &quot;superiority&quot; and thus, further justification for their snobbery.  If everyone were able to achieve the level of prosperity and good fortune they have....they are no longer so special and their own delusions of superiority are shattered.  Hence, the need to forestall this &quot;calamity&quot;.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>It would appear that conservatives even have the same goal, except that for many of them it seems as if they want it going in the other direction.</i></p>
	<p>The larger the underclass/&#8221;hoi polloi&#8221;/&#8221;riff raff&#8221;, the greater the accentuation of their own &#8220;superiority&#8221; and thus, further justification for their snobbery.  If everyone were able to achieve the level of prosperity and good fortune they have&#8230;.they are no longer so special and their own delusions of superiority are shattered.  Hence, the need to forestall this &#8220;calamity&#8221;.
</p>
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		<title>by: Dan S., Acolyte of Apples</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/16/6191/#comment-459393</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 23:30:36 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/16/6191/#comment-459393</guid>
					<description>&quot;&lt;i&gt; . . . while dating my current wife in college, we talked about the family we hoped to start one day. We also talked about it when we were just out of school and trying to get careers started and debt under control. In both cases, we didn’t act on the desire to start our family because we knew our economic circumstances couldn’t handle it.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

Sure, and same here currently, : ( but you have to look at this a bit more broadly.  This is part of a general middle-class+ life history path (as touched on by inge) in which the ideal is to wait to have (few to one) kids untl after graduating college (or beyond), becoming established in a career, etc. - which may well take into the 30s or even 40s.  Indeed family planning becomes part of the urban middle class' strategy and ethos during the 19th century, iirc.  But this only makes economic and emotional sense for people on track for/reasonably able to reach that sort of solid (and increasingly out of reach) middle-middle-class+ prosperity.  I don't know much about the Wilkersons' situation and background, but it's entirely plausible that an additional decade or two child-free wouldn't find such a couple substantially more 'prepared', in this sense, to have a kid.  They might be a bit better off, a bit worse, off, maybe even a lot worse off. In many cases, the 'responsible' path might well be graduating high school and having one or much more likely both partners employed.  

Besides the basic moral imperative, I'm tending to see stuff like the S-CHIP program and proposed expansion as functioning to try to keep the border between poor and working/middle class as much as possible a one-way street (to mix metaphors).  (See esp. work on the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.alternet.org/story/59140/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;near poor&lt;/a&gt;, the &quot;missing class&quot;, as in the recent &lt;a&gt;book&lt;/a&gt; of that name - and indeed, with the ever soaring cost/unavailability of health insurance, increasingly unreliable employment, the mortgage disaster, etc., this sort of fragility is extending well upwards, I  think.).  It would appear that conservatives even have the same goal, except that for many of them it seems as if they want it going &lt;i&gt;in the other direction&lt;/i&gt;.

 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;<i> . . . while dating my current wife in college, we talked about the family we hoped to start one day. We also talked about it when we were just out of school and trying to get careers started and debt under control. In both cases, we didn’t act on the desire to start our family because we knew our economic circumstances couldn’t handle it.</i>&#8221;</p>
	<p>Sure, and same here currently, : ( but you have to look at this a bit more broadly.  This is part of a general middle-class+ life history path (as touched on by inge) in which the ideal is to wait to have (few to one) kids untl after graduating college (or beyond), becoming established in a career, etc. - which may well take into the 30s or even 40s.  Indeed family planning becomes part of the urban middle class&#8217; strategy and ethos during the 19th century, iirc.  But this only makes economic and emotional sense for people on track for/reasonably able to reach that sort of solid (and increasingly out of reach) middle-middle-class+ prosperity.  I don&#8217;t know much about the Wilkersons&#8217; situation and background, but it&#8217;s entirely plausible that an additional decade or two child-free wouldn&#8217;t find such a couple substantially more &#8216;prepared&#8217;, in this sense, to have a kid.  They might be a bit better off, a bit worse, off, maybe even a lot worse off. In many cases, the &#8216;responsible&#8217; path might well be graduating high school and having one or much more likely both partners employed.  </p>
	<p>Besides the basic moral imperative, I&#8217;m tending to see stuff like the S-CHIP program and proposed expansion as functioning to try to keep the border between poor and working/middle class as much as possible a one-way street (to mix metaphors).  (See esp. work on the <a href="http://www.alternet.org/story/59140/" rel="nofollow">near poor</a>, the &#8220;missing class&#8221;, as in the recent <a>book</a> of that name - and indeed, with the ever soaring cost/unavailability of health insurance, increasingly unreliable employment, the mortgage disaster, etc., this sort of fragility is extending well upwards, I  think.).  It would appear that conservatives even have the same goal, except that for many of them it seems as if they want it going <i>in the other direction</i>.
</p>
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		<title>by: mythago</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/16/6191/#comment-459329</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 18:16:44 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/16/6191/#comment-459329</guid>
					<description>How cute that he thinks the people reading this on the computer at work are the ones in the most desperate economic circumstances. Yes, all those farmworkers, janitors and childcare providers with unfettered Internet access! How bitter they must be that the Wilkersons didn't suffer enough!

ohsohappy, you're not thinking like an insurance company. See, the &lt;i&gt;pregnancy&lt;/i&gt; and the &lt;i&gt;birth&lt;/i&gt; are two different things, and are subject to different excuses to fuck you out of coverage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>How cute that he thinks the people reading this on the computer at work are the ones in the most desperate economic circumstances. Yes, all those farmworkers, janitors and childcare providers with unfettered Internet access! How bitter they must be that the Wilkersons didn&#8217;t suffer enough!</p>
	<p>ohsohappy, you&#8217;re not thinking like an insurance company. See, the <i>pregnancy</i> and the <i>birth</i> are two different things, and are subject to different excuses to fuck you out of coverage.
</p>
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		<title>by: ohsohappy</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/16/6191/#comment-459326</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 18:14:27 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/16/6191/#comment-459326</guid>
					<description>&lt;b&gt;&quot;I’ve also been informed that the delivery is not a routine part of the pregnancy...&quot;&lt;/b&gt;

huh.wha? Delivery is not a routine part of the pregnancy? What do they think happens, the Baby Fairy comes and waves her magic wand and the baby goes directly from your body to her arms? 

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><b>&#8220;I’ve also been informed that the delivery is not a routine part of the pregnancy&#8230;&#8221;</b></p>
	<p>huh.wha? Delivery is not a routine part of the pregnancy? What do they think happens, the Baby Fairy comes and waves her magic wand and the baby goes directly from your body to her arms?
</p>
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		<title>by: bekabot</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/16/6191/#comment-459310</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 17:16:40 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/16/6191/#comment-459310</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Oddly, the people who the “pro-family” movement winds up in opposition to seem to be anyone who thinks homosexuals should be allowed to have families– you know, marry, have children, all that.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It's doubly odd because being queer is one of the surest-fire ways of keeping from ever having children of your own (except by deliberate design) and therefore of avoiding child-related predicaments such as the one the Wilkersons now find themselves in.  

(Predicaments which, as we now discover, conservatives abhor.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>Oddly, the people who the “pro-family” movement winds up in opposition to seem to be anyone who thinks homosexuals should be allowed to have families– you know, marry, have children, all that.</p></blockquote>
	<p>It&#8217;s doubly odd because being queer is one of the surest-fire ways of keeping from ever having children of your own (except by deliberate design) and therefore of avoiding child-related predicaments such as the one the Wilkersons now find themselves in.  </p>
	<p>(Predicaments which, as we now discover, conservatives abhor.)
</p>
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		<title>by: Hob</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/16/6191/#comment-459301</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 16:52:52 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/16/6191/#comment-459301</guid>
					<description>Will someone help us out with a good selection of Charles Dickens quotes? I know there are at least a dozen good bits with a high-minded character going on about the irresponsibility of the &lt;strike&gt;middle class&lt;/strike&gt; poor, having babies when they ought to be working three jobs and so on. This would save Mr. Hemingway some time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Will someone help us out with a good selection of Charles Dickens quotes? I know there are at least a dozen good bits with a high-minded character going on about the irresponsibility of the <strike>middle class</strike> poor, having babies when they ought to be working three jobs and so on. This would save Mr. Hemingway some time.
</p>
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		<title>by: epistemology</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/16/6191/#comment-459271</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 15:14:45 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/16/6191/#comment-459271</guid>
					<description>Raine:

Bush is the new Marie Antionette, and the expression is no longer, &quot;let them eat cake&quot; it's &quot;they can go to the emergency room.&quot;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Raine:</p>
	<p>Bush is the new Marie Antionette, and the expression is no longer, &#8220;let them eat cake&#8221; it&#8217;s &#8220;they can go to the emergency room.&#8221;
</p>
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		<title>by: epistemology</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/16/6191/#comment-459268</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 15:09:43 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/16/6191/#comment-459268</guid>
					<description>As Gore Vidal said of Americans (everyone?):

 &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;It's not enough to succeed. Others must fail.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>As Gore Vidal said of Americans (everyone?):</p>
	<blockquote><p><i>It&#8217;s not enough to succeed. Others must fail.</i></p></blockquote>
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