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	<title>Comments on: Mommy, what&#8217;s an MRA?</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/12/mommy-whats-an-mra/</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 02:21:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: ahunt</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/12/mommy-whats-an-mra/#comment-458685</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:46:09 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/12/mommy-whats-an-mra/#comment-458685</guid>
					<description>Okay...I gotta go harvest/process food for the winter, but I did spend the last 15 minutes wading through the comments over at Shakesville, and the most bizarre argument for how well &quot;women have it/women should stop bitching&quot;  revolves around the fact that men are more likely to be murdered/the victims of serious violence perpetrated by other men. 

Rather than see this reality as a call to action, as the catalyst for changing the condition...MRA's insist that the reality is proof that women are &quot;privileged&quot; in society.

I suppose that MRAs would be satisfied if women were offing women at the same rates that men are offing men...

Can it get any stupider?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Okay&#8230;I gotta go harvest/process food for the winter, but I did spend the last 15 minutes wading through the comments over at Shakesville, and the most bizarre argument for how well &#8220;women have it/women should stop bitching&#8221;  revolves around the fact that men are more likely to be murdered/the victims of serious violence perpetrated by other men. </p>
	<p>Rather than see this reality as a call to action, as the catalyst for changing the condition&#8230;MRA&#8217;s insist that the reality is proof that women are &#8220;privileged&#8221; in society.</p>
	<p>I suppose that MRAs would be satisfied if women were offing women at the same rates that men are offing men&#8230;</p>
	<p>Can it get any stupider?
</p>
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		<title>by: ahunt</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/12/mommy-whats-an-mra/#comment-458669</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 15:35:09 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/12/mommy-whats-an-mra/#comment-458669</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;Nope. “Opt-in” requires men to know about it.&lt;/i&gt;

Okay, revise the midsecond trimester requirement to say... 60 days after the man gets wind of the decision to carry the pregnancy to term.

Problem solved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Nope. “Opt-in” requires men to know about it.</i></p>
	<p>Okay, revise the midsecond trimester requirement to say&#8230; 60 days after the man gets wind of the decision to carry the pregnancy to term.</p>
	<p>Problem solved.
</p>
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		<title>by: buggle</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/12/mommy-whats-an-mra/#comment-458620</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 12:53:45 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/12/mommy-whats-an-mra/#comment-458620</guid>
					<description>I find it interesting that male vasectomies are hardly referred to as an option.  Male vasectomies are a fairly fast procedure, with much less risk than a female getting her tubes tied.  Male vasectomies are reversible for most and are not expensive, and are covered by most insurance. 

So, for a 21 year old man who knows he doesn't want to have kids until at least his 30's, a vasectomy would be a great option.  Not for all men, because you can't absolutely count on being able to reverse it. But, it's a good option-you don't have to worry getting anyone pregnant. 

Why don't more young men go for this?  I'm not sure. I would venture they don't want the side effects and don't want to go through any kind of pain or risks. Of course, women are expected to do just that, without complaint.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I find it interesting that male vasectomies are hardly referred to as an option.  Male vasectomies are a fairly fast procedure, with much less risk than a female getting her tubes tied.  Male vasectomies are reversible for most and are not expensive, and are covered by most insurance. </p>
	<p>So, for a 21 year old man who knows he doesn&#8217;t want to have kids until at least his 30&#8217;s, a vasectomy would be a great option.  Not for all men, because you can&#8217;t absolutely count on being able to reverse it. But, it&#8217;s a good option-you don&#8217;t have to worry getting anyone pregnant. </p>
	<p>Why don&#8217;t more young men go for this?  I&#8217;m not sure. I would venture they don&#8217;t want the side effects and don&#8217;t want to go through any kind of pain or risks. Of course, women are expected to do just that, without complaint.
</p>
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		<title>by: NotNOW</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/12/mommy-whats-an-mra/#comment-458574</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 07:00:25 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/12/mommy-whats-an-mra/#comment-458574</guid>
					<description>&quot;If the female condom were actually available and actually worked, sure.&quot;

Well, according to planned parenthood, they are available widely...
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/birth-control-pregnancy/birth-control/female-condom.htm

But if your pharmacy doesn't carry them, they can be ordered at 
http://secure.condomania.com/prodinfo.asp?number=C-FC


Now all that is needed is a male pill....and no, I don't think it's your fault I can't get one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;If the female condom were actually available and actually worked, sure.&#8221;</p>
	<p>Well, according to planned parenthood, they are available widely&#8230;<br />
<a href='http://www.plannedparenthood.org/birth-control-pregnancy/birth-control/female-condom.htm' rel='nofollow'>http://www.plannedparenthood.org/birth-control-pregnancy/birth-control/female-condom.htm</a></p>
	<p>But if your pharmacy doesn&#8217;t carry them, they can be ordered at<br />
<a href='http://secure.condomania.com/prodinfo.asp?number=C-FC' rel='nofollow'>http://secure.condomania.com/prodinfo.asp?number=C-FC</a></p>
	<p>Now all that is needed is a male pill&#8230;.and no, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s your fault I can&#8217;t get one.
</p>
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		<title>by: rrp, Heresiarch of Sweet Tea</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/12/mommy-whats-an-mra/#comment-458552</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2007 23:11:06 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/12/mommy-whats-an-mra/#comment-458552</guid>
					<description>damn, part of it got cut up.  It should have read

It has also meant that women have been forced into bearing children conceived through rape; children they did not want to have (see just about any war).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>damn, part of it got cut up.  It should have read</p>
	<p>It has also meant that women have been forced into bearing children conceived through rape; children they did not want to have (see just about any war).
</p>
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		<title>by: rrp, Heresiarch of Sweet Tea</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/12/mommy-whats-an-mra/#comment-458550</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2007 23:08:33 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/12/mommy-whats-an-mra/#comment-458550</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Thanks for the straight answer. So then, is a woman’s right to reproduce subject to the same (though different-gendered) limitation?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I do believe that NotNOW is trying for a gotcha.

First off, the &quot;right to reproduce&quot; is bs.  No such right exists.  Reproduction is easy for some (women and men) and difficult for others (women and men), but nothing guarantees that is is something anyone is entitled to. (Though there's a lot of technology that fools people into thinking that they may be.)

But to take the question at face value.

The simple answer is clearly no. Women do no have the limitations vis a vis reproduction that men do.

It's the asymmetry of who bears the child.  This means that a woman could reproduce without getting a man to agree to be a father in other than a strictly biological sense (see lesbian mothers and sperm donors).  It has also meant that women have been forced into bearing child.

Penetrative, heterosexual intercourse always &lt;i&gt;might&lt;/i&gt; result in a child when there is no contraception.  A man who is worried about being forced to care for a child when he doesn't want to needs to be very careful about contraception and judicious about the women he chooses to have sex with.

This is not rocket-science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>Thanks for the straight answer. So then, is a woman’s right to reproduce subject to the same (though different-gendered) limitation?</p></blockquote>
	<p>I do believe that NotNOW is trying for a gotcha.</p>
	<p>First off, the &#8220;right to reproduce&#8221; is bs.  No such right exists.  Reproduction is easy for some (women and men) and difficult for others (women and men), but nothing guarantees that is is something anyone is entitled to. (Though there&#8217;s a lot of technology that fools people into thinking that they may be.)</p>
	<p>But to take the question at face value.</p>
	<p>The simple answer is clearly no. Women do no have the limitations vis a vis reproduction that men do.</p>
	<p>It&#8217;s the asymmetry of who bears the child.  This means that a woman could reproduce without getting a man to agree to be a father in other than a strictly biological sense (see lesbian mothers and sperm donors).  It has also meant that women have been forced into bearing child.</p>
	<p>Penetrative, heterosexual intercourse always <i>might</i> result in a child when there is no contraception.  A man who is worried about being forced to care for a child when he doesn&#8217;t want to needs to be very careful about contraception and judicious about the women he chooses to have sex with.</p>
	<p>This is not rocket-science.
</p>
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		<title>by: gaia</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/12/mommy-whats-an-mra/#comment-458537</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2007 21:45:54 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/12/mommy-whats-an-mra/#comment-458537</guid>
					<description>If the female condom were actually available and actually worked, sure.

But it's not available in my neck of the woods.  Not for all the money in the world.

Nice misdirection there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>If the female condom were actually available and actually worked, sure.</p>
	<p>But it&#8217;s not available in my neck of the woods.  Not for all the money in the world.</p>
	<p>Nice misdirection there.
</p>
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		<title>by: MikeEss</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/12/mommy-whats-an-mra/#comment-458536</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2007 21:45:28 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/12/mommy-whats-an-mra/#comment-458536</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;So then, is a woman’s right to reproduce subject to the same (though different-gendered) limitation?&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Until parthenogenesis becomes commonly available for human females, some guy's sperm will be needed.  However, that sperm may have been &quot;donated&quot; years previously...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>&#8220;So then, is a woman’s right to reproduce subject to the same (though different-gendered) limitation?&#8221;</i></p>
	<p>Until parthenogenesis becomes commonly available for human females, some guy&#8217;s sperm will be needed.  However, that sperm may have been &#8220;donated&#8221; years previously&#8230;
</p>
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		<title>by: NotNOW</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/12/mommy-whats-an-mra/#comment-458535</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2007 21:41:52 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/12/mommy-whats-an-mra/#comment-458535</guid>
					<description>&quot;I merely asked whether men have a human right to reproduce.&quot;

&quot;Absent a willing woman…of course not.&quot;

Thanks for the straight answer.  So then, is a woman's right to reproduce subject to the same (though different-gendered) limitation?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;I merely asked whether men have a human right to reproduce.&#8221;</p>
	<p>&#8220;Absent a willing woman…of course not.&#8221;</p>
	<p>Thanks for the straight answer.  So then, is a woman&#8217;s right to reproduce subject to the same (though different-gendered) limitation?
</p>
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		<title>by: NotNOW</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/12/mommy-whats-an-mra/#comment-458534</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2007 21:39:15 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/10/12/mommy-whats-an-mra/#comment-458534</guid>
					<description>&quot;And it doesn’t matter if there’s a male pill - condoms will still be necessary to prevent STD AND a really good idea as a fail safe.
Condoms are here to stay.&quot;

So you would be willing to use a female condom and have your partner use the male pill?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;And it doesn’t matter if there’s a male pill - condoms will still be necessary to prevent STD AND a really good idea as a fail safe.<br />
Condoms are here to stay.&#8221;</p>
	<p>So you would be willing to use a female condom and have your partner use the male pill?
</p>
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