God, the tampon wars have nothing on this. What the hell kind of police state are we tolerating in schools?
In short, this teenage girl spilled some cake, was told to clean it up by security guards, and when she didn’t do it to their satisfaction, they assaulted her, called her names, and broke her wrist. Another kid taped the assault on his cell phone, and he was also pinned and arrested. The video above has videos and pictures of the whole thing.
I have to say, when camera phones started coming out, I found them mildly irritating, but now I’m really grateful they’re around. We’ve been seeing a slow creeping of state surveillance of the citizens, but these camera phones are helping restore us to the surveillance situation that’s required in a democracy, where citizens supervise the government and authority. A handful of people (though not many) in the comments here and Offsprung on the “no bags” post were casting around for a way to minimize the seriousness of the situation when we allow security paranoia to take over our schools to that degree. Now we get a good look at the very serious dangers of letting a bunch of petty thugs with power issues run mini-police states in the schools.
162 Responses to “Spilled cake, broken wrist”
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We’re preparing them for the future.
I have a child in middle school. God help anybody who ever did anything like this to him.
Yes, I do own a gun.
Not that people haven’t been recording police brutality for decades, but the proliferation of recording devices has been really helpful.
One guy with a camera can be beaten down and hauled off when he records something he shouldn’t have. But try to beat down 20 people with cameras, and footage of the incident is gonna lead the 6 o’clock news.
It’s really too bad, though, that the report focuses on the protest, and not on “Security guard assaults child over a piece of birthday cake - news at 11.” As though the newsworthy aspect is that people are mad about it, not that it happened in the first place.
And that’s one of the reasons bad cops (and their enabler cops, which is pretty much most of them) and security guards have become more and more hostile towards people with cameras: arrests, assaults and the like. There seems to be a belief amongst some police officers that recording them doing their job is a crime… unless, of course, it makes them look good.Put the guard in jail and throw away the key. What a disgrace.
There are no words. That poor child.
Of course, people and Skarka’s Law being what they are…
Hey, this is about the strains in society growing as more and more people are being put in irreconcilable positions financially and emotionally. It’s also about a social and media environment that is progressively more and more violence tolerant/justifying, partly to give the people about to blow their tops someone other than people more responsible for the situation.
shah8, I understood the individual words you just wrote, but the sentences you strung them together to form made no sense whatsoever.
Right on.
If all the Monks and their supporters had had
camera-cells and ANY sort of unimpeded
wireless access….
This thing in Mynamar’d be over….
And if not that, at least on record.
[as it is, we’ve no idea where anybody’s
done disappeared to..and that’s scary.
But I bet we’ll see a flood of images-
from even 35mm, or locked down but
digitized in their cameras- over time]
What about that woman who died when she was detained at an Arizona airport? I have not been able to find anything about this incident since yesterday. It’s like it’s been disappeared.
Why is this story being supressed?
Surpressed. Where is the spell check when I need it?
The Killing of Carol Ann Gotbaum
http://www.lewrockwell.com/akers/akers72.html
“She died in their custody last Friday because “[she] had possibly tried to manipulate the handcuffs from behind her to the front, got tangled up in the process and they ended up around her neck,” according to Sgt. Andy Hill.”
….
“Her mother-in-law is Betsy Gotbaum, a Democratic hack who’s pestered New York City for decades. Betsy now reigns as Public Advocate – an office one step below the mayor’s. When she says, “We are very concerned about what happened at Phoenix airport. It’s under investigation and we are following that investigation,” goons in Arizona tremble. They know that enforcers in a police state can murder folks like Rigoberto Alpizar with impunity. But snuffing a politician’s family or friends…that’s as big a no-no as a passenger’s protesting shoddy service.
Betsy’s got them sweating so profusely that spokesman Andy Hill was out there again, trying to bolster their lie. This time he wants us to believe that contortionists are a dime a dozen and even less law-abiding than your average serf: “’There are many people that are able to get handcuffs around their back and get them up and around,’” Hill said. “How the handcuffs ‘got placed on that neck area…we don’t know yet.’”
NYTimes:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/02/nyregion/02gotbaum.html
“Ms. Gotbaum, a mother of three, lived on the Upper West Side. Her husband is Noah E. Gotbaum, an investor who has worked in Eastern Europe. Mr. Gotbaum is the son of Victor Gotbaum, who for many years was executive director of District Council 37 of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, the city’s largest alliance of public sector unions, and his former wife, Dr. Sarah C. Gotbaum.”
“A lawyer representing the Gotbaum family, Michael C. Manning, said that serious questions remained about the handling of the arrest.
“The family has not reached a conclusion as to whether her care and treatment were inappropriate, but the circumstances were highly unusual,” Mr. Manning said. “This woman — who was 5 foot 7, less than 110 pounds — was without doubt emotionally disturbed, and at this stage the family understands why the Phoenix Police Department intervened, but it’s what happened after the intervention that causes us concern.”
Mr. Manning said that Ms. Gotbaum was in the Phoenix airport for what was to have been a brief layover on her way to Tucson, where she planned to enter an alcoholism treatment program. He said he did not know how long she had had a drinking problem.
Mr. Manning said that the Maricopa County medical examiner’s office, which is responsible for such investigations at the Phoenix airport, had initially scheduled an autopsy for yesterday, but that at his request, the office had agreed to delay it. Mr. Manning also said that he wanted an independent forensic pathologist to be present during the autopsy.
According to the Phoenix police, who say they are still investigating the circumstances surrounding Ms. Gotbaum’s death, she became agitated and disruptive at the airport on Friday afternoon after missing a flight to Tucson. Sergeant Hill said that police officers arrested Ms. Gotbaum after trying unsuccessfully to calm her.”
Let’s look on the bright side!
At least the guard didn’t have a taser.
Thanks. I missed the NYT coverage. And there was quite a lot of local coverage in Pheonix. What an awful thing.
This airport has been under public scrutiny for “lax security.” But here they certainly protected the public from this potentially dangerous woman.
There’s Skarka’s Law for the white woman…
Back on topic, is there any coverage of the walkout that can be watched non-locally?
Okay, here’s a second try:
1) There seems to be more and more incidents being reported. If it is not because people are getting caught more often, perhaps with newer innovations like camera-phones…
2) Then it might be because the mood of the country is growing uglier. More and more people are having steadily declining standards of living. Since the idea is that misery loves company, some people decide to be more callous, and perhaps brutal in how they handle others, or people in their care.
3) Available victims (scapegoats) are a key tactic for leadership in trouble throughout history. Give some people, generally thugs, extra authority and weapons, and they will oppress the rest of the people for you. Give them an ideology, or a frame of mind to operate in, and they will do things without twinges of regret.
4) Making it okay to hurt minorities and women have been more and more present in politics and right wing media for a pretty long time now. It’s gotten much worse since the immigration “debate” was started up. Even before then, disenfranchiseing blacks have been growing more and more accepted. People get rewards for doing this, like people who have jails in their congressional districts which results in the reprise of some original constitutional provisions, eh?
5) Bush has been theiving from pretty much everyone. It’s also blatantly obvious he’s a thief of lives and livelyhoods. These tactics are necessary to keep the Republicans going for just a little while longer, by firming up a hard core of people willing to sell everyone else out.
6) Victims like the middle school student shown above is part of the blowback from the increased promotion of racism in public discourse and public policy (so long as it’s not actually called racism). It’s pretty damn obvious that the whole situation was one whole hate act. Show a little girl who’s boss. Show the rest of the community exactly how little they can do about protecting one of their own.
At the end of the day, if it had been my daughter, I’d be in favor of simply waiting in a dark alley somewheres, and give a very thoughtful beating, paying close attention to the guard’s genitals. Parents have absolutely every right to expect that their children wouldn’t be harmed by school staff. Someone has to be really warped, or feeling really safe to think he can get away with it.
Sorry for hijacking the thread.
Today is Mahatma Gandhi’s Birthday.
Some things change. And some things don’t.
Hattie — “suppressed” — you were close the first time
Frankly I’m not surprised. I’m white and was always a quiet, passive and well-behaved child in school, but I still remember getting chewed out and punished for the weirdest things. For example, once I yawned while standing in line to go to recess, and my teacher yelled at me and wouldn’t let me go to recess because she said I’d “yawned loudly on purpose.” I have still never figured out what the hell that was about.
If I were black, I can only imagine what might’ve happened — white teachers often read the smallest acts by black children as purposefully defiant.
Parents have absolutely every right to expect that their children wouldn’t be harmed by school staff. Someone has to be really warped, or feeling really safe to think he can get away with it.
Let’s look at it this way …
IF that girl had been at a birthday party at home
IF she had spilled cake and then been treated like this girl was BY HER PARENT …
IF said parent broke her arm in the incident AND a relative captured it on video …
You had better believe that there would be ABSOLUTELY no ambivalence from the media - the video would be every where and very few fools would dare defend the parents or make excuses. It would have been “look at the bad abusive parents - take that girl away NOW”. The persons recording the incident would have been heroes for bearing witness to the tragedy of child abuse (in minority homes, naturally).
Why the difference?
Race
Social Class
Privilege
People make excuses for security guards at schools where they would be crying “abuse!” at the minority parents even if the situation were EXACTLY the same!
We should be holding so-called professionals to HIGHER standards, not lower standards, but stereotypes about who abuses kids and who has the automatic high ground get in the way.
I hope that girl sues that ridiculous excuse for a school for every penny she needs for a top-flight private education and college too!
When you break a little kid’s arm for any reason other than:
- The kid is about to kill you.
- The kid is about to kill someone else.
then you’re a waste of perfectly good oxygen and you gotta go. The video game of your life is over, you lost. Time to quit the game and start over with a new fresh character that isn’t tainted with the stench of your utter failure at life.
I’m not usually one to judge a book by it’s cover, but that security guy with the glasses on his forehead (you know, the one who is clearly made of ham), looks like he’d need to break a little girl’s arm to feel good about himself.
I mean, what other reason would he have to feel good about himself?
I think its important to note that the news clip doesnt show the entire video. it doenst show what happened prior to the guard arresting the girl. Did she assault him, did she fight and resist? I think one would need to see the entire video from start to finish before jumping to conclusions. I find it hard to believe that the girl dropped some cake, wouldnt pick it up and then the guard just started beating her and broke her arm. As a veteran police officer, I can tell you that juveniles do fight and resist and can pose just as much of a danger as any adult.
Cookie, if a parent broke her arm, what would you, as a veteran police
apologistofficer be required to do by law?So why is Mr. Pig any different?
Stop making excuses - breaking an unarmed child’s arm at school is not justified. Ever. Period. A security guard has no business disciplining students anyway - the one at my son’s school was fired for just exactly that.
Just out of curiosity, cookie, let’s assume hypothetically that the story is correct as given, verified to whatever standards you desire. What would be the appropriate response from the school and the security guards’ superiors?
There’s cookie invoking Skarka’s Law on what happened ot the girl. I was wondering how long it would take…
BTW cookie, when did you attend the Simi Valley school of film criticism?
Oops, *to the girl
BTW, Skarka’s Law basically states that on the internet, there is no action or position, no matter how heinous or idiotic, that someone won’t show up in a given thread to defend
For the benefit of others who might miss the reference….
Skarka’s Law
This is an observation, originally attributed to now banned RPGnet poster Gareth Skarka, that, on internet messageboards, there is no subject so vile or indefensible that someone won’t post positively/in defense of it.
For a more explicit demostration…read this thread…
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2640191
Its a very simple point….from that news clip it doesnt show what happened to start it all…..If the guard just started beating her and broke her arm then he should be fired! If the girl fought him and resisting and in the course of him arresting her, her arm got broken, then that happens in those situations. Its important to have all the facts before coming to a conclusion. whys that so hard to understand?
Cookie, it is hard to understand because OUR KIDS SHOULD BE FUCKING SAFE FROM GORILLAS TAKING OUT THEIR OUTRAGEOUS ANGER ON OUR CHILDREN’S BODIES WHILE THEY ARE AT SCHOOL.
You have no fucking clue now, do you? Schools have to accomodate most or all children and create a safe environment. CLEARLY the security guard violated that mandate, not the child. I suppose that some of the behaviorally disordered children in a school are “just asking for it” by your Simi Valley rules here? Twit.
Asshole security guard is supposed to be A PROFESSIONAL - go look it up, as you CLEARLY find it so hard to understand.
Then again, I sincerely doubt that you are a police officer, too.
Oh yeah, and how, exactly, do the kids who are photographing and taping the “professional” and “official” actions of said idiot gorilla rentacop deserve to be beaten and arrested too - especially if said rentacops are just “doing their job and keeping the nappy headed hos under control”?
What’s hard to understand, cookie, is why you keep showing up at this blog to defend police violence. First it’s the student in Florida who got tasered and now it’s a teenage girl who’s wearing a sling. The Florida guy wasn’t caught on tape cutting in front of people to grab a microphone, but you believed that was true. If so, why don’t you believe what the voiceover provided by every newscaster who’s covered this story has reported as well: that there was no “resistance” - the guard followed her to her class and forced her into that position in order to arrest her.
Better yet, go on youtube and find another news station’s clip of the story and use critical analysis to identify any disparities. Look at that large heavy guard and ask yourself if any teenage girl of such a smaller size would pose any threat to him. Ask yourself why failure to pick up cake crumbs in a cafeteria is grounds for arrest. Ask yourself what a security guard hired to work in a high school is doing, using such force against a student that he broke her wrist?
While a police officer, did you break a lot of arms in the course of arresting people, or was that just for fun?
kate…i agree with you that kids should be safe when they go to school. My sole point was we dont know what happened to start it thats all. If the guard was wrong then fire him, but get all the facts before coming to that conclusion. Mentally disturbed kids? whats that have to do with what were talking about? nice try. The kids who were taping, if thats all they were doing was taping the incident, then nothing should have happened to them. The guard shouldnt have touched them. I have arrested hundreds of people of the years, some of which have been recorded, didnt bother me at all.
cookie, stop referencing your questionable past as an officer o’ the law. It doesn’t give you credibility. It only makes us think you’re a bigger psycho asshole for thinking there’s ANYTHING an unarmed teenager can do to a guard three times her size to warrant having her wrist broken.
Yeah, cookie, that kid is a menace to society!
Why, she probably had a knife and a gun and the security guy was defending his life against her relentless assault. We just didn’t see the GOOD part ‘cause the video was edited by evil libruls to keep the truth from getting out.
Why she was just like that Rodney King guy back in the day. You just KNOW how those negroes are when you get ‘em all excited. It really is too bad they couldn’t have used a taser on her too…
***
I guess we’re lucky the girl didn’t say or do something that reflected on christianity (many more comments by cookie there) or cookie would be advocating the death penalty…
And cookie, sweetums - Is there any authority or authority figure you will not defend? Are the police/security/teachers/government/parents/church/etc. ever wrong or bad regarding anything, at least in your mind?…
Mike, your post is so stupid it doesnt deserve any further response, youre a moron!
My kid’s godfather works with emotionally disturbed and mentally retarded students. He’s 5′11″, 150lbs and some of these teens, like some of any teen population, are larger than he is.
He somehow manages to restrain them during extreme tantrums without breaking anybody’s anything.
Some of these kids go to public school, and the staff has to know how to deal with them. Just about EVERY public school has these students and the staff is trained in similar techniques. Sometimes they are necessary for “normal” or undiagnosed students, but the goal is to restrain without harming students OR staff - without macho and violence.
My husband has taught in public and private high schools and he had to learn when and how to call in assistance to professionally and nonviolently remove behaviorally decompensating teens from his classroom. Sometimes they were behaviorally challenged and had education plans, sometimes they were having a bad trip and were drugged out of their heads, some were spiralling into mental illness and yet undiagnosed, etc. It didn’t matter what the deal was, there was a system and a plan. Any PROFESSIONAL who works in a public school environment knows or should know that restraining an out-of-control student is NOT EVER something that you do 1)alone and 2) as a means of discipline.
If these security guards are in a public school in today’s environment of universal access to education and mainstreaming of behaviorally challenged students, and they cannot restrain or call for assistance in restraining a student without twisting arms and physically, violently attacking them (let alone “nappy head” namecalling), they don’t deserve to have their job.
Make all the excuses you want, but you CANNOT get around the UNPROFESSIONAL CONDUCT by making the standard “stupid cop” excuses of “resisting arrest”. This idiot did not know or chose not to bother initiating the proper protocols for student restraint by staff. There should have been no arrests here - calling a restraint code, MAYBE, but mostly there should have been no name calling, no escalation, and no attempt at discipline by a security guard in the first place. Period.
youre a moron!
An apologist without an apostrophe!
p.s. why does it matter with mentally disturbed students? A long answer is in moderation. Short answer: just about every public high school has them and the staff must be trained to restrain them, which is a group effort. Sometimes these restraint events are necessary for nonclassified students.
Mr. Pig clearly had not had the training or decided to just be abusive and twist arms instead of calling for backup. I’d bet that, like my son’s school guard, he wasn’t supposed to be involved in disciplinary issues in the first place.
Cookie, how is PHYSICALLY RESTRAINING TO THE POINT OF INJURY and ARRESTING a girl FOR FAILING TO CLEAN UP SPILLED CAKE even a remotely justifiable response? Seriously.
Do you really think that she became a physical threat to the rent-a-cop when he got bent because she didn’t step to it like he wanted? Or is it more probable that she refused to be humiliated by this asshat with his commands to keep cleaning and talked back, at which point he decided to put the proverbial boot on her neck?
I’m sorry, but if she had gotten physical with the security guard, I guarantee Fox News would have reported that– it fits in quite nicely with their narrative that brown people need to be kept in line by the strong arm of the state.
Or, apparently, apostrophes.
Also, given that sure, 12 year olds can put up a fight, I happen to know firsthand that there is training for holds to put on students of that age if the student was spitting at the guard or whatever. [Mother did some time working in the behavioral dysfunction class at her school.] HOLDS NEVER INVOLVE BREAKING BONES, COMRADE COOKIE. NOT EVER.
Jeez, proof of Altemeyer’s RWA in action here, much?
Heh. I see Ms. Kate beat me to making all my points, but yeah, seriously, if this guy was even allowed to lay hands on the student, he failed it with his training in holds and restraints and failed it hard.
Which follows from his inability to handle the cake situation in the first place — there’s training for handling teenage provocateurs, too, and y’know, that would be part of security’s job, to prevent needless escalation of situations like SPILLED EFFING CAKE. Damn.
Kate, what the hell are you talking about? this kid wasnt mentally retarded. And I agree if he didnt have the authority to arrest then he should be fired!
History, in case you failed to read the other posts( which clearly you didnt read) We dont know what happened to start the arrest. Did she assault him, tell him to go pack sand? If he had reason to arrest her and she resisted then broken wrists happen. I have seen wrists, arms broke over the years. If he used too much force then that will come out during the investigation. My point stated again for those who are clearly slow readers, lets not jump to conclusions until the whole video is seen! if he was in the wrong then fire him and the mother and teen should sue the school and the guard.
“Jeez, proof of Altemeyer’s RWA in action here, much?”
That’s exactly why I asked cookie the question about defending authority. He/she seems the type that would take the Milgram experiment to the fatal level every time and never think twice about it.
I suspect cookie shares that problem with the security guard…
Oh, yes, cookie, because we all know how *much* of a threat that a 13-year-old girl who weighs maybe 90 - 100 lbs poses to a 250-lb “security guard” goon!
If the races of the guard and victims were reversed, would you be defending the guard so vigorously? I think not.
hey castaway, bend over and ill show you where to stick that apostrophe
kate this girl wasnt mentally retarded. What the hell does that have to do with anything? If he didnt have the authority to arrest students then he should be fired!
history, broken wrists happen sometimes when people are arrested, ive seen wrists, arms broken over the years, usually from people who resisted. If the guard acted wrong then he should be fired. But, without seeing the whole video, who knows that happened to start it, thats my whole point
I’m starting to think I might be psychic! Anyone want Lotto numbers?
geez, rachel playing the race card now thats ORIGINAL. ok so what if it were reversed, If a white girl resisted or assaulted a black guard and her wrist got broken, ok. whats your point???
So lets say the entire video shows the girl assaulting the guard resisting the arrest? Is he still wrong? thats why its important to see the whole thing before we come to a conclusion.
hey sheesh, lets test that psychic ability….i am holding up one finger, can you guess which one it is??
You still haven’t answered my question Cookie. How is physically restraining the girl an appropriate response to not cleaning spilled cake?
At least cookie is getting down to brass tacks now and showing his true reasons for being here (pretty much just to be a childlike, insulting dick throwing tantrums and generally acting like he’s too young for his nuts to have dropped yet).
Is it bunny time soon?
Maybe cookie thinks the girl was “dusted” (or whatever the current cop term for using “Angel Dust” is) and therefore had the strength of ten grown men.
That’s why a security guard just can’t be TOO careful.
After a long, hard day of dealing with teenage girls, that guard should have the right to return to his family. Far too many security guards go to a school in the morning and never return home to see their families ever again…
***
cookie dear, two words: Professional Counseling…
“i am holding up one finger, can you guess which one it is??”
I’d rather guess what you’re holding in your other hand…
kate this girl wasnt mentally retarded. What the hell does that have to do with anything? If he didnt have the authority to arrest students then he should be fired!
I’ll go real slow this time. Sorry if proper use of apostrophes seems to freeze your cognitive abilities.
Schools now have kids of all ranges of abilities and behavioral disorders. The presence of these students means that any public school employee has to be able to restrain students without breaking bones or they should not be touching students EVER. These protocols appertain to the restraint of ANY STUDENT, not just those with cognitive/behavioral disabilities.
Her “not being retarded” or officially emotionally disturbed DOES NOT MAKE DESTROYING HER BODY ACCEPTABLE and does not matter! It does not excuse the use of force seen here EVER. If she was out of control and a danger to self/others, such as in a bad trip or tantrum, he should have called for a restraint team. Clearly he either wasn’t trained, was not supposed to be engaging students in this manner (not supposed to be involved in discipline) or was a unprofessional bully with clear intent to escallate the situation to justify his extreme abusive behavior.
BTW, he also broke the arm of another teen who questioned his attack on the video taping student. Where was his backup? Why didn’t he summon teachers and administrators like my husband had to to get a seriously mentally ill student in his computer class safely under control? Or like when two students started fighting just outside his room? Schools are supposed to have protocols for these things, and they are not “twist that nappy headed ho’s arm off and show her you the man”.
If you can’t tell the difference between routine disciplinary interactions with students and arrest, you are one sad fool. Besides, who deputized this dimwit anyway? Since when do security guards have arrest powers? Or is any rentacop a “cop” in your mind … like, how long have you worked for WalMart anyway?
I’d rather guess what you’re holding in your other hand…
A confiscated tampon!
Better get her a wriststrong bracelet.
I find it hard to believe that the girl dropped some cake, wouldnt pick it up and then the guard just started beating her and broke her arm.
Really? I don’t have a problem believing that at all. Do you suppose that private security guys pick that occupation because of their deep regard for law and order and their desire to protect the weak? Bwa ha ha ha ha!
As a veteran police officer
I think I found your problem. Thin blue line, and all.
cookie:
No, dumbfuck, that’s why it’s important not to be a desperate apologist for a locked-down police state.
Not even the “security guard” (read: jack-booted thug) in question, or anyone who represents him, has bothered to say anything in his defense, and yet somehow, you come along and declare ex cathedra that beating up little girls for dropping cake on the floor is all in a day’s work. The fact that you’d completely ignore what she had to say for herself and immediately assume that she must have had it coming (despite the fact that, as above, not even the security guard in question, or anyone else, for that matter, has said she did) says more about you than it does about her.
Actually, Palmdale Knight must be a pretty nice school if the security guards are having a meltdown freak-out over a cake-dropper. They must not have any gang activity or fights or on-campus drug use or kids hanging out in the halls when they should be in class or even rampant tardiness to worry about.
Just think for a moment, okay, Cookie? The relevance of mentally disturbed/behaviorally challenged/otherwise unusual students is that these students are at any public school you can name; therefore occasional violent behavior is something a school must expect and plan for; therefore there’s no excuse, even assuming there was any violent behavior by this girl except possibly towards a piece of cake, for anyone laying hands on her who wasn’t familiar with proper restraint technique. Presumably this girl did not have a weapon; surely we’d have heard about it by now? That being so, what possible justification is there for restraining her in such a way that her wrist was broken? What actual threat did she pose to the guard?
Also, anyone with an ounce of sense should know better than to physically challenge, as a first option, a student who’s being a behavior problem - even assuming she was, which there’s no reason to do; but even assuming the worst case, it’s just insanely stupid to do that to someone who wasn’t being violent. That’s the situation where you’re supposed to use your brain and your words; kindergarteners know that; why didn’t this guy?
bunnies! bunnies! bunnies!
bring the bunnies.
dear cookie,
dude was a security guard, in a school, not a police officer in the streets. he is there to protect the children, not arrest them.
but i assume you think those kids at kent state got what was coming to them too. it’s alright, i can’t take anyone seriously who uses the term “race card” anyhow.
so where was i? oh yes…
BUNNIES!
Things like this is beginning to just shut me down because they are not here for me to hit and if they were I wouldn’t win because this isn’t a fairytale.
“behaviorally decompensating teens”
Wow, that a bullshit term REALLY takes the obfuscutory cake.
As somebody who knows what he’s doing with a spot of fisticuffs, a bit of the old ultra-violence if you will… it’s bloody easy to restrain somebody you so grossly out-mass and out-muscle. And it’s easy to do it without hurting them.
And if you don’t know what you’re doing or don’t care, it’s easy to do it with hurting them.
In the first part, the guard shouldn’t have even been involved. In the second, he was either incompetent or didn’t care, or he got angry… see incompetent.
And defending him is just plain dumb. Doesn’t matter what’s on the rest of the video, she was no threat to him.
I think “cookie” enjoys seeing adolescent girls assaulted by big, “tough” men. Just a guess.
See, the thread became about “cookie” and not about our incipient police state. The “surge” became about moveon.org and not about what is happening in Iraq. Fatal distractions.
http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2007/10/no-duty-to-retreat.html
“The right to armed resistance against unlawful police power was widely recognized until at least the dawn of the 20th Century. In the 1900 case John Bad Elk v. United States, the Supreme Court recognized that the killing of a law enforcement officer who acts without a proper warrant can be justifiable homicide: If said officer is “killed in the course of [a] disorder which naturally accompanies an attempted arrest that is resisted, the law looks with very different eyes upon the transaction, when the officer had the right to make the arrest, from what it does if the officer had no such right. What might be murder in the first offense might be nothing more than manslaughter in the other, or the facts might show that no offense had been committed.”
cookie: History, in case you failed to read the other posts( which clearly you didnt read) We dont know what happened to start the arrest. Did she assault him, tell him to go pack sand?
If she did tell him to go pack sand, or “assaulted” him when the meathead tried to grab her, then she’s my fucking hero.
It takes a lot of courage to stand up to a domineering bully who is bellowing senseless orders at you and trying to use both his physical advantage over you and his official position to intimidate you into complying. Standing up to someone like that, when he has a good 100 or 150lbs on you, is very brave. She had every right to tell him off and, for that matter, every right to defend herself against his attempts to physically grab her.
The Loss of Liberty Captured on Film
http://www.lewrockwell.com/katz-j/katz-j20.html
On Larry Craig and the Police State
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/adham1.html
They keep track of what you read
http://www.wired.com/politics/onlinerights/news/2007/09/flight_tracking
Our police:
http://www.commondreams.org/views07/0206-25.htm
No student photography:
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/09/19/3952/
“Guilty - of trying to see our Senator”
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/09/09/3711/
Also, let’s not forget that he didn’t just call her a name. He called her “nappy head,” according to the reports I’ve read.
But it’s not about race. Or gender, for that matter. I’m sure the big huge guard (with sunglasses? inside?) got no extra thrill from putting a bitch-in-training in her rightful place.
Others beat me to it, but dearest cookie is a High RWA, probably among the highest. Those who haven’t read it yet will be edified by Bob Altemeyer’s new, free-of-charge book for the lay reader, The Authoritarians.
For cookie, just talking back to a cop is a good reason to get a broken limb.
It’s worth noting that cookie doesn’t want little girls assaulted just for the sake of assaulting little girls. Rather, cookie is interested in making sure that everyone who is insubordinate to the Proper Authorities gets what’s coming to them. As well it should be. Sieg heil!
By the way, everyone, YouTube has a horrible, horrible track record for deleting “interesting” videos. They always capitulate to fake DMCA notices, and they take down controversial videos for many other reasons as well.
Youtube is a petty tyranny, and is not a place to safely or reliably distribute democratic media. If you see something “interesting”, you’d better download it with keepvid or some similar tool, because you can never count on it lasting there. At least if you download it then you can help redistribute it if necessary.
Indymedia, if I recall correctly, has some useful guides on better ways to distribute video. I’ll try to dig that up.
cookie is doing exactly what “persons in blue” do when confronted with policy brutality. Defend the officer,(even if it is a security guard, which btw, cookie probably has disparaged “rent a cops” several times to his “real cop” buddies, no matter what the situation. In the policeman’s view, the only bad thing another cop can ever do is to portray a member of the thin blue line. The usual standard defense is “we don’t know the whole story, and everyone else has it in for us, even though we are trying to protect their asses from the big bad evil that is out there.” Usually after a short discussion, the defending cop will say-”yeah, well, you weren’t there, and I will remember this when some black girl is attacking you when you ask her to not cut in line at the bank and you are asking me to restrain and arrest her”. The last line is must so that a state of fear can be maintained, and respect for the incredible job a cop does to protect us all from the “baddies.”
This defense of all the men in blue, including firefighters, medics, security guards(but only when a security guard was seen trying to do is job and is being criticized for it, otherwise cops have total disdain for the rent a cops)is part of the emergency services creed, and unspoken oath that we all took when we hit the streets. It comes from the “us against them” mentality as well as treating all people with suspicion, and the only true people that can be trusted are other people in blue.
If cookie doesn’t defend other cops, even cops he doesn’t know, it’s like an imaginary badge gets taken away from him.
I am so glad I am out of that culture.
This guy should be thrown in jail. His supervisor should be thrown in jail. The schoolboard for hiring that company (assuming he works for a private security outfit, most do in my experience) should be thrown in jail. The management of that company should be thrown in jail. The shareholders of that company should be thrown in jail.
And people wonder what’s happened to personal responsibility. It died in the face of the limited liability corporation.
it’s bloody easy to restrain somebody you so grossly out-mass and out-muscle. And it’s easy to do it without hurting them.
With even a modicum of training, it’s pretty easy to restrain someone twice your size and weight without hurting them (assuming they’re less well-trained than you).
Assuming that cookie is/was a real police officer and not a poseur we can ponder several disturbing questions.
* How many times did an “uppity” citizen, angered by his bully attitude get given the finger or the vulgar statemens he makes here? Countless, I’m guessing, and it went into the notebook as “suspect became belligerent when I politely…”
* How many violent attacks was he a party too? I’m guessing that given his attitude it was quite a few. Cops that angry and defensive rack up violent altercations like kids collect toys. Incidents which in the hands of better cops are resolved patiently peacefully are, in hands of bully, “I’m always right!” cops are pointless brawls waiting to happen.
* How many incidents of police violence in which he was involved ever reached the stage of being validated by a complaint? I’d guess none. Cops like that ride with other cops like that; they cover for each other like crazy and justice goes away empty handed. Worse, many good cops cover for bad cops. It was a sore point between myself and a close friend, a longtime police officer. I could never bring him around to realizing the truth of the maxim that “if you lie down with dogs, you’re gonna get fleas”. Many decent cops don’t realize or want to realize that the downward spiral of respect for the police, the increasing reluctance of the public to help them and, yes, the increasing willingness of the public to passively or actively and sometimes violently resist police is a creation (at least in part) of the sins of the police themselves, sins of both commission and omission.
The basic problem, cookie, is that you believe that authority should be obeyed, even when it is wrong. You believe a blue version of the Nixon legality principle: if a cop does it, it’s not illegal. You believe that no matter what the evidence we should take the cop’s side. You stand as a blue version of the hoodlums and sleazy defence lawyers who you disparage in bars: people who will say anything, justify anything, lie about anything, to excuse their actions or to get their buddy off. There are far, far too many police officers who see being a cop as being in a heavily armed bully’s guild, not as a higher calling. I cannot know whether you are one of them, or merely one of the ones who lies to blame the citizen when he has done nothing wrong. All I do know is that there are more and more cops like that, and that is profoundly disturbing.
Sorry, but I don’t care if she was “resisting arrest.” You know what I care about ? How in hell is ARREST or physical escalation in ANY WAY associated with “not cleaning up birthday cake” ? Even if a cop tried to arrest me, an adult, on the street tomorrow for “not cleaning up birthday cake” I’d have them committed.
The posters on this thread who have remarked that a professional should have known better are $100 correct. My husband used to work with disabled/mentally disabled youth, many teens; lots of them would get frustrated by their communication problems, and sometimes they acted out- even to the point of threatening him with a knife while making dinner one day. He never, ever hurt any of the kids in his care; because he was a trained professional with the tools to calm down a situation, and if that failed then non-violent restraining techniques. It’s bullshit that this guard should be held to another standard- when you work with children, your standards should be at their highest.
“There are far, far too many police officers who see being a cop as being in a heavily armed bully’s guild, not as a higher calling.”
6079, did you mean to say “Gang”?…
Speaking as a former security guard (subway), restraining someone is dangerous. There are a number of techniques that may result in broken or dislocated limbs, and some that may result in death. This is why you have to know exactly what you’re doing and where the boundaries are, which this guy clearly didn’t.
There are situations where limbs get broken, and there are situations where this is justified. Dealing with unarmed teenagers is not among those situations. Breaking something by accident shows you’re incompetent. Not caring if you break something shows that you are not just unprofessional, but also an asshole. Breaking something on purpose shows that you are a power-drunk, abusive asshole.
I would like to think that the aim is for highschool security to be competent, professional, non-abusive decent people. Clearly I missed a memo somewhere.
The page is acting oddly - if ‘m double posting, apologies.
Speaking as a former security guard (subway), restraining someone is dangerous. There are a number of techniques that may result in broken or dislocated limbs, and some that may result in death. This is why you have to know exactly what you’re doing and where the boundaries are, which this guy clearly didn’t.
There are situations where limbs get broken, and there are situations where this is justified. Dealing with unarmed teenagers is not among those situations. Breaking something by accident shows you’re incompetent. Not caring if you break something shows that you are not just unprofessional, but also an asshole. Breaking something on purpose shows that you are a power-drunk, abusive asshole.
I would like to think that the aim is for highschool security to be competent, professional, non-abusive decent people. Clearly I missed a memo somewhere.
as usual jetting off to play School Social Worker, you know, when I’m not playing the role of counselor on a psychiatric ward-
At any rate: I could tell anyone the most obvious thing here-
One never puts their hands on another individual (such as in the mental health/psychiatric facility I work at) unless the person in question is of immediate PHYSICAL HARM TO THEMSELVES, OR OTHERS.
It’s really that simple.
and my thoughts regarding jail, were the first ones that went to my head when I first caught wind of this (echoing Karmakin). Maybe then others will start to see that we do not use violence to enforce rules of compliance.
Well, actually- I would hope most would already be keenly aware of this.
In the first part, the guard shouldn’t have even been involved. In the second, he was either incompetent or didn’t care, or he got angry… see incompetent.
Security guards are supposed to be looking out for bigger problems and assisting staff as required. They are not supposed to be directly enforcing discipline in any way. The reasons for this are simple:
1) most are not properly trained to discipline students
2) some are contractors and not school department employees
3) discipline of students is a distraction from their real job duties
Here’s an easy scenario. Mr. Rentacop, school security guard, is very well known amongst the students for being a bully and for provoking students in the name of discipline. Thing1 and Thing2 are totally sick of him, of school, and of bible clubs and cheerleeders too. So is Ms. Gurly O’Color, their female friend.
Here is their plan: during a school event, Gurly drops a piece of cake in front of Rentacop, who becomes enraged AND, therefore, distracted. While he harasses, browbeats, and demeans Gurly in the name of “discipline”, which is not his job BTW, Thing1 and Thing2 are let in the door by another friend, A.Complice. They are armed to the teeth beneath their jackets, and take out half the Bible club and plug three cheerleaders before Rentacop, who was supposed to be covering the entrances but couldn’t resist a bit of racist misogyny, even gets his first clue about the larger goings on.
It’s a post columbine, post 9/11 world, and another Rentacop miserably fails any mission remotely related to the realities of security.
What does it mean to “go pack sand?”
Jesus Christ. If one more apologist tells me that the US isn’t creeping closer and closer to becoming an outright police state, because it still “isn’t as bad” as it is in a lot of other countries, I may puke. I don’t give a shit what happened before the filming started; some racist hired thug broke that girl’s wrist. In a school. Because she evidently didn’t respect his authoritah. Fuck him, and fuck anybody who tries to defend that.
Cookie, no one said the girl was anything but a mentally and emotionally normal kid. Stop making things up. The point was that school security folks need to be trained to restrain such students without causing them harm. If they can’t restrain a kid who doesn’t have these problems, then how the hell is that person going to handle a more delicate situation?
Secondly — for the sake of your argument, can you think of ANYTHING that she could have done to deserve being treated like that? And if that horrible thing did happen, why haven’t we heard about it yet?
Third — why the hell has the school treated the girl’s mother so shoddy? There’s no excuse for that either. I’m just as concerned about the actions taken against the mother for daring to be outraged at the inexcusable treatment of her daughter.
It is scary, isn’t it Bella? I hope the family is able to sue the crap out of the school district.
I hope the family is able to sue the crap out of the school district.
The Cocharane Law Firm is on the case.
Is there any talk of a legal fund for this case?
I believe the “nappy head” comment by guard, elevated this to a “hate crime.”
There is more information (with editorial comments scrolling across the screen and end music) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFKxkeacLYs
actually Youtube has almost 10 videos on this including the protest. If I didn’t know putting another link in this comment would cause it to go to moderation, I’d put it in there.
But this is the ever growing result of the right wing fascist quest for control of it’s citizenry. Which has only been further enabled by the weak kneed dems,
Let me make this very clear for all you retards! I am in no way defending what he did, if he didnt have the authority to arrest her then he was wrong and should be fired. BUT, and read this carefully, If something happend that we didnt see on the video and he was arresting her and her wrist was broken, then that does happen. The size difference doesnt matter one bit to me, some of the worst fights i have been in as an officer have been with people much smaller than me. And to the morons who believe in this THIN BLUE LINE, BS! Ive turned in cops for doing inappropriate things and never thought twice about it.
Cookie dear, using words like “retard” in the derogatory context you just did is similar to using bitch, nigger, wetback, spic, chink, fag, etc. as an insult. Completely inappropriate. Do try to hold down the distaste and ignorance in the future.
Jesus. I worked as a security guard and they—the male guards—were often so fucked up the police department wouldn’t have them. Security companies are desperate for employees so they hire people before the background check comes back, which resulted once in the c ompany hiring a sex offender and a wife beater. After he harassed all of the women on staff and told them they were asking to get raped, he was fired, but so were the women. Then there were the guys who could barely draw oxygen and lock locks. They did get energetic when confronted with women who had more potential and brains than themselves—-somehow it was womens’ fault they weren’t president or something.
Last but not least were the macho guys. These guys didn’t know theslightest thing about public relations. They wanted to escalate every situation there was so their dicks would look bigger, no matter how stupid I was. Every time we had a ’situation’ these guys would demean the suspect so that they would be goaded into responding—-especially if it was young kids! I mean, these were adult guys taunting teenagers. It was just amazing. But, yeah, that’s the mentality that you get when you go with some of these security companies. They basically all want to work for Blackwater.
read this carefully, If something happend that we didnt see on the video and he was arresting her and her wrist was broken, then that does happen.
Read this carefully: no single person should be grabbing students in a school in any manner remotely like that IN ANY POSSIBLE SITUATION!
What part of “restraint team” and “trained” and “effective restraint methods” do YOU not understand? In ANY PUBLIC SCHOOL staff should have PROTOCOLS and TRAINING for situations where students lose it, because it happens. An individual teacher, guard, administrator should NEVER take on a student one-on-one. aYou call for backup BECAUSE there is a danger to students AND staff if one UNTRAINED person tries to just “arrest” someone.
If you can’t get that, you don’t have any sort of brain function and interment is imminent.
One never puts their hands on another individual (such as in the mental health/psychiatric facility I work at) unless the person in question is of immediate PHYSICAL HARM TO THEMSELVES, OR OTHERS.
SERIOUSLY! I worked in mental health and group homes for a few years to put myself through school. When someone was freaking out, we were trained to get other people away from the situation, put some physical distance between ourselves and the person in crisis, and de-escalate the situation verbally. Physical restraint was a LAST resort, but I probably did it a few dozen times and never hurt anyone (at the time I weighed about 115 pounds, which may be part of why I really took the “physical intervention as a last resort” part seriously - but I’ve immobilized people twice my size long enough for them to calm down or for a second person to arrive to help walk the restrained person away from the scene.) If I’d ever broken a wrist, there would have been a major inquiry.
So if we expect mental health workers with far less training to be able to defuse situations without getting physical where possible and to restrain safely, I don’t get why people are so willing to accept that 5 cops can’t escort a student out of an auditorium without tazing him or a security guard can’t deal with a 13-year-old cake criminal without breaking an arm. isn’t just abuse of authority, it’s incompetence.
Jesus. I worked as a security guard and they—the male guards—were often so fucked up the police department wouldn’t have them. Security companies are desperate for employees so they hire people before the background check comes back, which resulted once in the c ompany hiring a sex offender and a wife beater. After he harassed all of the women on staff and told them they were asking to get raped, he was fired, but so were the women. Then there were the guys who could barely draw oxygen and lock locks. They did get energetic when confronted with women who had more potential and brains than themselves—-somehow it was womens’ fault they weren’t president or something.
Last but not least were the macho guys. These guys didn’t know theslightest thing about public relations. They wanted to escalate every situation there was so their dicks would look bigger, no matter how stupid I was. Every time we had a ’situation’ these guys would demean the suspect so that they would be goaded into responding—-especially if it was young kids! I mean, these were adult guys taunting teenagers. It was just amazing. But, yeah, that’s the mentality that you get when you go with some of these security companies. They basically all want to work for Blackwater.
Kate, put down the apple pie and watch the video, there are like 3-4 other guards and several school officials in the video. How much “BACKUP” do you want to have there? And even trained people brake bones, Ive seen it happen many times and the officers were trained. Things like that happen. I really dont get why thats so hard for you to comprehend. ROWMYBOAT, thanks for the lesson on context, would you prefer, mentally challenged? retard.
Cookie is clearly a clever parody. Also, there’s no way anybody would hire he/she/whatever as a cop.
I vote for disemvowellment or the bunny-wedgie treatment for our friend cookie.
I watched “The Lives of Others” last night and was horrified, because that’s what we’re creeping toward here in America. If you haven’t seen it, please do, and tell me it doesn’t make your blood run cold.
Also, fyi, a brake is what you have in a car, you fucking dumbass. Jesus.
I have to say, when camera phones started coming out, I found them mildly irritating, but now I’m really grateful they’re around. We’ve been seeing a slow creeping of state surveillance of the citizens, but these camera phones are helping restore us to the surveillance situation that’s required in a democracy, where citizens supervise the government and authority.
My sentiments exactly. I thought they were such an unwelcome and rude intrusion at first, and now I’m so GLAD they are here!
And then we wonder those who are not straight white men don’t like cops, if we’ve got shining examples like cookie.
Not off topic at all, but, anyone read Atwood’s Handmaid’s Tale lately?
Cookie, I can’t decide which thing you are.
On the one hand, there is so much about you that screams poseur cop wanna-be. For example, the instant claim to have done something, the alleged performance of which strengthens your argument*; purportedly turning in cops for doing “inappropriate” things is the most recent example. (You couldn’t even bring yourself to say “illegal”, could you? That great weasel word of wrongdoers in authority everywhere: “what I did may have been inappropriate…” )
On the other hand, your willingness to fling terms of abuse at people who have the gall! to disagree with you, your refusal to address people’s substantive points or answer their reasonable questions and your instant, aggressive anger to being challenged on the facts or your attitude … these all make me wonder if you aren’t a real cop after all. The reek of uniformed bully demanding instant agreement hangs about you. Maybe you’re this guy. Or maybe you’re just one of the one of the cops stalking the cop’s victim.
* - Question: Is there a blogsphere word for this sort of thing? You know, some 23 year old cook responding to “Well, your point X clearly shows that you know nothing about flying” with “Oh yeah, well I’ve been a private pilot for twenty years smart guy!”. Is there such a phrase?
Cookie, we ain’t the ones who can’t use an apostrophe to save our lives.
There are other untrained people present, yes. Untrained because they don’t know how to use proper restraint techniques either, obviously, because they are not stopping Rentacop’s attack and they are not applying proper restraining holds themselves. Mr. Skinhead Rentacop and his voyeuristic ilk can’t seem to “get” that proper restraint has NOTHING to do with hurting people and being mad and EVERYTHING to do with protecting themselves, the student, and bystanders.
When my husband had to have two fighting students restrained, he didn’t twist their arms because that would have been stupid, useless, and ineffective and he would have gotten hurt. He called for assistance and the vice principal, principal, and security turned up and restrained the students AS A GROUP. Restrained as in “one person puts student in half nelson and the other pins his legs and the two carry them to the nurse’s office, which has been secured”. Not beat up, not attacked, not twisted arms (VERY innefective mechanism, btw)- restrained the students and hauled them off for further processing.
If school types in highly unprofessional highly unsystematic school systems in these parts can figure that out …
Of course you’d rather that Thing1 and Thing2, above, went on their rampage rather than be stopped by a guard doing his/her job properly and paying attention. That way, you can justify anything you might want to do to anybody at anytime for any reason witout question.
I’ve got a long comment in moderation—I guess, because the ‘your comment is in moderation’ thing didn’t appear—but keep in mind a fair percentage of security guards can’t pass the police officers’ exam, which cookie claims he/she/it passed. These are either really macho or really inadequate guys. They like to escalate situations rather than de-escalate them—it shows how big their balls are. As if that’s not bad enough, some of them are armed.
Check out the Freepers on the subject: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1903795/posts
G_d love ‘em, they don’t sound too very ready to defend the Man either!
Ms Kate, didn’t you hear cookie? Put down the apple pie!
That’s it. Riiiiiiiiiight there. Right where I can reach it.
Mmmmmmm…….
shit! this from the report from the freepers site taken from ABC7 http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=local&id=5677461:
She is expelled and she has been accused of battering the guard… for what? MAKING him break her wrist?
You know what batterers say? “She ran into my first and bruised my knuckles!”
That’s funny, I went to the link and looked at the videos and unless I misunderstood, they say that the girl picked up the cake three times! Even if she had pushed at the guard (a charge which magically showed up much later after her mother asked for the arrest of the security guard) there is no reason for such excessive force. Pushing!? Girl against big guy? No “authority disrespecting”, no nothing but a lot of humiliation. I would be trying to walk away.
Let’s make the worst possible case. Girl drops cake on purpose and is snotty to guard who asks her politely to pick it up, while offering her a paper towel. She then talks back to the guard and pushes her way past him. Even then the guard has no right to grab someone and use excessive force. What has happened to all the other possible disiplinary measures? Are there no rules about the appropriate use of force? She would have to have been posing an imminent danger to have even been touched.
Yes, ohwell. He shouldn’t have been involved. When I teach the kidlets how to hurt people with their bare hands, when one is mis-behaving they get a time-out or some squats to do.
If they’re smarmy and don’t do them? I tell them their parents will be called. If they’re still smarmy, I do it. It’s really very simple to discipline children, and if I weren’t teaching them I’d be uninvolved in the process.
For instance, if I were, I dunno… a security guard maybe, I wouldn’t be involved and wouldn’t get involved. Certainly when I was one I know when not to get involved.
And for those saying that a even a minimally trained smaller person can make things difficult for a much larger person, that seems to me to be buying into the idea that size and strength don’t matter for martial arts, which is purest bullshit. I know some very highly trained people who wouldn’t be able to do much more than annoy me because I so grossly out-mass and out-muscle them, and I’m really not that big a guy. This security guard was bigger than me by a long ways.
I worked as a security guard at a Level 1 Trauma hospital, that also housed the Emergency Psychiatric services.
Every security guard I worked with took their job seriously, and did not use it as a tool of intimidation.
Part of our job was restraining patients, who were a danger. We restrained multiple patients, every day. For months. Patients who were sure as hell resisting.
And never, ever, did one get hurt.
Jesus. I worked as a security guard and they—the male guards—were often so fucked up the police department wouldn’t have them.
The security guard in question here was fired by the local police department for corruption.
But, of course, to cookie, the fact that he’s a crooked cop is only more proof that the guy was on the side of right and true when he broke a girl’s wrist for not cleaning up cake. Defend him to the death, cookie! Maybe he’ll give you a cut of what he stole from the department.
Jesus. I worked as a security guard and they—the male guards—were often so fucked up the police department wouldn’t have them. Security companies are desperate for employees so they hire people before the background check comes back, which resulted once in the c ompany hiring a sex offender and a wife beater. After he harassed all of the women on staff and told them they were asking to get raped, he was fired, but so were the women. Then there were the guys who could barely draw oxygen and lock locks. They did get energetic when confronted with women who had more potential and brains than themselves—-somehow it was womens’ fault they weren’t president or something.
Last but not least were the macho guys. These guys didn’t know theslightest thing about public relations. They wanted to escalate every situation there was so their dicks would look bigger, no matter how stupid I was. Every time we had a ’situation’ these guys would demean the suspect so that they would be goaded into responding—-especially if it was young kids! I mean, these were adult guys taunting teenagers. It was just amazing. But, yeah, that’s the mentality that you get when you go with some of these security companies. They basically all want to work for Blackwater.
It would seem that the police state is already here,
From the local paper “Antelope Valley Press”
http://www.avpress.com/n/29/0929_s1.hts
“Lockett and her 14-year-old brother, Josh, as well as 15-year-old student Pleajhai Mervin and her mother, Letrisha Majors, were arrested Sept. 18 on charges including SUSPICION of battery to a school employee, SUSPICION of challenging a school official to a fight and littering”
And the mother,
“She was later arrested - witnesses said she was detained on SUSPICION of battery.”
You can’t get arrested because someone is suspicious, you can be accused, and if there is evidence to support the alligation you will be arrested. You can suspect all you want, but if your not going to charge me sit down and shut the F@#* up.
I’ll be knitting armband Swastikas today, anyone want one?
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=local&id=5677461
wow, its already gone,
The absolute stupidity of some of these posts are beyond belief.
“I worked as a security guard at a Level 1 Trauma hospital, that also housed the Emergency Psychiatric services.”
WOW thats awesome, Im sure that makes you an expert on the matter, your mom must be so proud of you!
And for i dont know the 5th or 6th time…im not defending the guy at all. All im saying is we dont know what happened to start the altercation. If he acted wrong then fire him. If he had the authority to arrest her and her wrist got broke, it happens. Maybe she has a calcium deficiency problem, brittle bones, perhaps she should be on the free milk program at school.
SEEKER, just because it is inappropriate does not mean that it is illegal. While that might be hard for you to grasp, it is not that hard! there is a difference.
“I’m not defending him I’m just saying we don’t know his side.” Or words to that effect, I’m too struck by the stupidity of believing that people in authority are absolutely perfect and MUST be innocent, dammit. Sounds like Piator’s belief that women who claim rape MUST BE lying because unless the guy admits rape, it’s not rape. Or something.
So there you have it. These guys have to admit that it’s rape or assault before cookie and Piator will believe them. And of course that will convict them, so I guess it’ll be a bit of a wait.
Oh, good, they sent the guards and administrators home, it seems.By the way, I remind readers of a simple rule I noted in an earlier thread. When you see an injured suspect being charged with assaulting police when the arrest itself is fishy, take that “assaulting police” or “resisting arrest” charge for what it is: prima facie confirmation that it was indeed a wrongful arrest. And the mother being arrested for threatening the administrator is probably just a very clever administrator realizing that was the best way to rapidly shift attention from his school’s fuckup to sliming the victim(s).
cookie, thank you for providing confirming data for a truth that I noticed some time ago: people who constantly accuse everybody around them of stupidity are usually the dumbest people in the room.
All im saying is we dont know what happened to start the altercation.
And all of the people here with EXPERT knowledge of school discipline and restraint of out-of-control people in other settings are all in agreement that IT DOESN’T FUCKING MATTER!
We heard what you said, we have just decided that you don’t know jack shit, based on evidence of what constitutes trained professional conduct that is required in the particular setting.
Go back to your donuts already!
Yea, kate there is a lot of EXPERTS on this thread. that is the funniest thing you have posted to date.
PALE, I suggest you educate yourself a little, SUSPICION in CA where this happened is the same as probable cause for an arrest in other states. they just use the term SUSPICION. If you look they all were charged with different crimes, so there you have now sit down and shut up.
Oh yea, Kate i do not like doughnuts but thanks for the thought!
Ms Kate, you’re wasting your time. Cookie is a nagelist.
http://www.bsis.ca.gov/industries_regulated/syllabus.shtml
Actually, ginmar, doesn’t it have more to do with making you admit that they are correct even in the face of the fact that both of you know that authority is wrong? You’re ex-service so you no doubt ran into it on more than one occasion.It all boils down to O’Brien getting you to admit that there are five fingers held up when only four are, no?
Because it doesn’t happen in these situations. The situation is a school. The situation is an unarmed student not picking up dropped cake. It’s not criminal and it’s not a threat to the student body at large. There shouldn’t be a point where she’s resisting arrest b/c arresting her and laying hands on her at all IS INAPPROPRIATE. There’s no situation that makes calling her “nappy head” appropriate, even if he didn’t physically assault her.There’s really no reason for a SECURITY GUARD to be talking to her at all. Again, she’s not threatening the student body, so IT’S NOT HIS RESPONSIBILITY to discipline her.
I’ll play top the troll story with this old chestnut Pandagonians have heard before: My father-in-law is a Chicago cop. Former Teamster, but still a short Mexican.
Off duty, unarmed, shopping at Walgreens, when some guy flips out and starts stabbing a pregnant woman with a screwdriver.
Unarmed and not in uniform, my short Mexican FIL took the guy down by himself and restrained him by himself until on duty cops could arrive.
Screwdriver Stabber Guy somehow escaped without a broken bone despite being restrained.
I totally understand how cops react, and why you need to listen to them and do what they say or they will take you down. That doesn’t mean that it is APPROPRIATE for them to intervene in all situations. The Capitol cops have no business keeping Americans out of public hearings, even if they are peace activists like Yearwood. Security guards have no business breaking little girls’ wrists over birthday cake.
Resisting *is* appropriate when the arrest is illegal. FSM protect us from a country where questioning authority is cause for beatings and jail.
God, I never thought I’d miss the Soviets. But without them to be the bad guys, our leaders feel free to imitate their police state.
Cookie, is the fact that the guard used an obviously racist slur a factor in this at all for you? Do you think that his racism doesn’t at all affect how he treats the black students he’s there to protect?
Morons like cookie are what happen when people judge what they think someone “would” do as opposed to what they actually do. Because every time you think, “Oh they wouldn’t do THAT,” they go and prove you wrong.
Every damn time.
Several people here have spoken about their work with developmentally disabled children, and how one is taught never to use excessive force or escalate the situation.
I wonder if you’ve heard about this school in Massachusetts where they do things a bit differently:
Gosh, what a fun troll!
I’m just glad I never had him for a client. Cookie really doesn’t seem to understand the concept of excessive force. As in, there’s an amount of force that’s necessary to restrain someone and then there’s an amount of force that’s excessive. Broken bones are usually a sign that excessive force is being used.
If this security guard weren’t a former cop, I’d suspect that he didn’t have much training at all in restraint and holds. But, alas, he did go through the police academy before getting booted for corruption.
At least he wasn’t issued a Taser. That really seems to be the go-to for campus security when they don’t have the necessary skills to do their jobs properly.
Cookie wants to know what happened before this child’s arm was broken, as in: what did she do to bring this on herself? That’s the wrong question, of course. The real question is: who in the blue blazes decided to get a security guard involved in cleaning up birthday cake in the first place? Is the culture of this school such that teachers are relying on the security guards to enforce order and discipline? If so, that’s all kinds of fucked up, and I’d really like to know how many other incidents we haven’t heard of have occurred.
Cookie already said what it would take. If the girl were to
then that would be sufficient reason for being arrested, and sometimes you have to break a few bones when you arrest an insubordinate.
Cookie, know thyself.
Grammar RWA in the 90’s a “student” at the Judge Rotenberg Educational Center opened the back the back door of a school bus while it was traveling on I-95 south toward Rhode Island, and jumped out, killing him (I passed this accident) … if I remember correctly he said he wanted to “go home” - some (like my daughter) believe it was a completed suicide
Oh, shit, I just realized that this happened in Palmdale, outside of LA.
Now I’m even less surprised — Palmdale and other outlying areas are where the racist assholes move to when they can’t stand being around brown and black people anymore. Now the brown and black people are moving in, too, and the people who moved there to “escape” are getting pissed.
Not to mention the enormous economic pressures going on right now — like a lot of the outlying areas, a lot of Palmdale residents got questionable mortgages with jacked-up rates they can no longer pay, so foreclosures just keep going up. Add those pressures to people who already think that everything going wrong is the fault of black and brown people, and, well, it’s gonna get ugly.
WTF? How the hell is that even legal?
I’m somewhat reassured that the article says that this is the only “school” in the country that does this but … they administer electric shocks instead of psychotherapy?
“ROWMYBOAT, thanks for the lesson on context, would you prefer, mentally challenged? retard. ”
I think cookie is gettin’ mad cuz nobody here will respect his AUTHORITAY! … … some beatings are in order I’m sure …
But really … my question would be : “what could possibly have happened before the video to make this acceptable?” … … unless she drew a weapon I see nothing that could be bad enough to warrant this kind of violent reaction.
Oh and has anybody else notice that Cookie uses phrases like :“If he had the authority to arrest her” … “authority to arrest her” not “a good reason to arrest her” … a Freudian slip maybe but I sure as hell find it to be very telling …
DeadMan
If she drew a weapon, I’m not sure that twisting her arm higher and higher would be the appropriate response.
Unless you wanted to be a dead man.
This has been an interesting debate, i think this dead horse has been beating into dust. How could i ever think to have a reasonable conversation with people who believe the world is billions of years old and humans were once swinging from trees. i will see you on the next one. keep those wacky leftwingnut treehugging liberal minds working!
Cookie, check out the freepi conversation linked above. They don’t think about the earth as being millions of years old or people swinging from the trees, either, but they do seem to agree with us here on this particular topic.
What does THAT say about you?
Since cookie has crossed the line into personal abuse several posts back, can we get some bunnies here, or at least disemvowel?
Hmmm, a young-earther creationist right-wing authoritarian “ex-cop” hippie-hating victim-blaming asshole? In addition to getting winning at bingo, I am convinced cookie is pullin’ our chains.
Wow cookie just outted her/himself and what he/she really is.
A Right Wing, Young Earth, Creationist.
Cookie, this one is for you and why I don’t believe you can’t engage in a resonable conversation withthose who don’t believe as you do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq5TWTTPHF8
Cookie, no good security officer would escalate an incident over a piece of cake to the point where violence is necessary. Any officer forced to use violence should use the absolute minimum, and as someone who has been part of numerous restraints through the years, I can assure you that someone properly trained in violence de-escalation and restraint techniques does not injure when restraining. Not even when the person being restrained is larger and stronger.
The larger issue here is not that the security officer harmed a student in a restraint, but that he instigated and escalated the violence in the first place. Not only should he be fired, but he should be permanently prevented from being in a similar job ever again.
Shah8 -
Thank you. That’s much clearer. Never be afraid to spell it out. There’s no rush.
Cookie -
I’m going to have to join in with everyone else in saying: it doesn’t matter what she did. She was a small teenage girl who had her wrist broken by a huge grown man who was charged with protecting the school’s students, which included her. Unless she was an immediate danger to herself or others, this is unacceptable. I can assure you that if this happened in my father’s school district, the guard would already be fired and probably charged. My father himself (superintendent of his district) would be in serious trouble for hiring him in the first place.
The fact that you simply will not get this says terrifying things about you.
Unless…
Is this a subtle hint that this is all just a joke? I mean, this statement is a parody of an unthinking, logic-rejecting wingnut. If someone tried to make a fictional character that stupid, I’d say they’d gone too far, made the character too unbelievable.
Seriously, if this statement - and your entire contribution to this thread - isn’t a joke, then you are.
Yes, and the school was renamed for the last judge who refused to shut them down. Apparently it’s “legal” because they get parents to sign consent to the electric shocks.
That is tragic, and as a person who’s been unwillingly subjected to psychiatric “care” I can understand the impulse. I was never treated nearly as badly as those kids, and I still wanted to commit suicide to get free. Under the circumstances those kids experience, I’d like to think I’d have overcome my fear of death.
oh, and cookie, anyone who has worked in the level 1 trauma ward of a psychiatric hospital is by definition an expert in restraint because everyone in such a unit, no matter what their job, is expected to be able to de-escalate, prevent,, and respond appropriately to violence.
I’d tell you to have a cookie, but that would be cannibalism.
How could i ever think to have a reasonable conversation with people who believe the world is billions of years old and humans were once swinging from trees.
Yeah, I don’t buy it. Truth being stranger than fiction and all, this is a little too perfect. Nice job impersonating a wingnut, cookie. Keep up the lack of apostrophes and subject-verb agreement.
Eat the damn cookie, cookie.
We all know that the incident in Palmdale, California was motivated by race and class.
This is sort of off topic, but I’d like to strenuously object to calling the victim a “little girl.” She’s a teenager. If this happened to a teenage boy, would you call him a “little boy” or a “child”? No, you would not. Please refrain from infantilizing teenage girls. Thank you.
Erika,
The “little girl” thing was bugging me too.
Child less so, because if you’ve heard any news discussions of college students and their parents lately, you will repeatedly hear a person old enough to drink being referred to as “child.” That bugs me, but I guess I’ve ben a little desensitized to the word being used for a 13 year old.
Agree with the sexist bit of it though.
Apologies. Where I was reading about this earlier, people were saying she was 12.
I thought she was 16.
My assumption is that middle school is fifth through eighth grade. I thought she was 14. Fourteen is a “little girl”, not a teenager. If she is actually 16, then she is still a “young girl”, but I would not have referred to her as “little”.
@ erika & rowmyboat:A sixteen-yearold teenage woman IS a “little girl” in relation to a thirtysomething brick-shithouse of a rentcop/professional bully.In the same respect,a male teenager would be a little boy.Because testosterone this or male upper-body-strength that,he doesn’t stand a chance against a trained hooligan like this when push comes to shove.In a case of sexaul assault with a 16-yr-old male victim and a 35-ish male perp,the headline would be:”Sex fiend assaults young boy”.
I’ve referred to elsewhere as a little girl not to infantilize but because she’s small in stature and slim, and a young female. She’s a little girl or little young woman in comparison to the big man who abused her, physically and psychologically.
My friend’s husband was a psychiatric nurse who was getting burned out, in part because he’s a reasonably big guy and the other nurses were relying on him to control patients rather than calling security like they should have. One of the reasons he got out and went to cardiac ICU instead was that he screwed up his back trying to restrain a patient before he’d run through all of the steps of trying to calm the guy down.
Of course, he knew exactly who was to blame: himself, for trying to shortcut and going straight to physical restraint when he would have had better results by talking more.
Odanu,
Thanks for the help, but I think you read my sentence wrong. It was a Level 1 trauma hospital, and it had an emergency psychiatric ward. We(the security guards) were only called in after the staff was unsuccessful at calming the patient down, wherein we would be required to restrain the patient, remove them to their room, and apply four point restraints.
But, still, no one was ever hurt(except the guards) in the course of these activities.
Ms. Kate, that Freeper thread is a pretty comforting one.
Of course, if your head spins with confusion as you read their responses, you’ll be comforted to find them back in familiar form here.
Yes, the security guard was a decent young man! The problem was the gang culture encroaching on the nice white community (thanks to the Clintons), and the mother came running up from her government housing (where she didn’t have a job) to assault the principal. Oh, and the girl’s name is silly! Ha, ha, ha! Oh, those silly, funny-named, unemployed, gang-affiliated brown people!
Comfortingly reliable, yet still disgusting. Thanks, Freepers.
ACG. Fun fact to take with you if you want to play with the Freepers: The mother worked for the same school district. But of course, they won’t let facts stand in the way of prejudice, so you might not want to bother.
dude was a security guard, in a school, not a police officer in the streets. he is there to protect the children, not arrest them.
Nope. He’s paid by the school authorities; he’s there to protect the school authorities. Usually that involves protecting the children.
Which suggests the appropriate target for lawsuits.
Thanks for the tip, but I have no intention of engaging. It turns into one of those wrestling-with-a-pig situations. I just clicked through a link from the page that Ms. Kate linked to, read a few posts, threw up in my mouth, and left hastily.
Pam has all of the fortitude when it comes to picking through Freeper threads. I find the stupid dizzying and disorienting and have to stop reading.
I’m inclined to give police officers—real ones—the benefit of the doubt (although much less so than I used to be). But that mindset sure as hell does not apply to these $12-an-hour losers.
This incident happened at Knight High School. It wasn’t a middle school.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071109/ap_on_re_us/airport_death
PHOENIX - A woman who died in police custody during an airport layover was intoxicated and accidentally strangled herself, an autopsy released Friday concludes.
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The Maricopa County Medical Examiner’s Office said Carol Anne Gotbaum, 45, of New York, was acutely intoxicated on alcohol and prescription drugs when she died in a police holding room at Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport on Sept. 28.