New podcast is up, and I think this one is the best yet. I want to draw everyone’s attention to it because one of the segments I’ve done is, in my opinion, pretty important. I’m covering the protests of the Aurora, IL Planned Parenthood, and that’s been well-covered elsewhere, but I’ve brought in an angle I haven’t seen before, which is the history of why Planned Parenthood has started to use 3rd party companies to build their new facilities. Planned Parenthood says that they are doing it for safety reasons, so they can build the building in peace. Anti-choicers are playing the wide-eyed ingenues, with a, “Whatever do you mean? How could you possibly think that sweet little anti-choice nuts like us might use violence and intimidation to stop the building of these facilities, even though the very reason we’re angry you built them under the radar is that it prevented us from using violence and intimidation to stop you?”
And a lot of media is reporting the ridiculous claims that Planned Parenthood doesn’t have a right to protect itself, so I give some of the recent history from Austin, TX of exactly how the anti-choicers block the building of new facilities, why the concerns about violent intimidation are well-grounded, and why Planned Parenthood was wise to protect themselves from a well-established, violent, coercive attempt to stop them from building much-needed facilities. So please, check it out.
29 Responses to “New podcast and why Planned Parenthood has a right to fight back against racketeering”
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[Sigh.]
I know this is the minority view, and while concurring with the the opinion on Maher’s general pigginess, I have to agree with him about public nursing. Just because something is (and should be) legal and hassle-free doesn’t mean it’s in good taste.
Nursing a baby is a wonderful activity and I myself enjoyed it very much. However, when done in public, it tends both to attract curiosity-seekers and to annoy even people who–like me (and I suspect, Maher)–completely support the pro-nursing legislation changes but would prefer not to watch while we’re trying to eat something ourselves.
Although, as you say, it doesn’t take much effort to ascertain that babies need to feed frequently, it also doesn’t take much effort to throw on a shawl or a poncho–so little effort, in fact, that when I see a mother doing otherwise, I assume that she’s hoping for an audience. That’s perfectly harmless, but it’s also a bit tacky.
I suppose an argument can be made that, as this right was so recently won, a bit of in-your-face-ness might be necessary to enforce its acceptance. If so, I’m hoping this stage will pass soon.
Molly - have you ever tried to nurse a baby over the age of a few months with a blanket over it’s head? Mine would yank it off faster than I could put one on.
Did I cover up when nursing in public. Sure, when possible, or when doing so was not hazardous (I once had my mother seriously try to insist I toss a blanket over my nursing baby while we were outside in 102 degree weather!) Frankly, I’m appreciative of those who don’t cover up, even though I tend to myself. Because sometimes even the most modest or self-conscious woman will find herself needing to nurse her kid, and having no reasonable way to cover up properly, and she needs to not get hassled about it.
Molly, what were your strategies for making sure never to nurse in public when you were nursing? (I’m assuming here you wouldn’t think the worst of nursing mothers without walking a mile in their shoes.)
Is the rss feed ok? iTunes told me there was a new podcast then queued up last week’s show. I went to the site and listened from there — glad I did!
I find women nursing to be a little distracting but that’s my hangup, and I’m not going to make a baby submit to the sharp, stabbing pains that they feel in their stomach when they’re hungry because I’m not really used to seeing boobs in public.
(Yes. Babies experience intense physical pain when they’re hungry. That’s why they sound like you’re sticking them with hatpins when they want to be fed.)
Faced with something I prefer not to watch, I tend to mind my own business and not watch it. But then, I have eyelids and a head that swivels. I can see that it might be different for other people.
The feed should be good. But yes, one big benefit to iTunes is that you get it before everyone else.
Seriously Molly, did you ever leave the house when you were nursing? I breastfed both of mine for almost a year each, and I refused to be confined to the house just because someone might have a problem with my feeding my kid. I never really went out of my way to flaunt the process, but the only place I ever consciously covered up was at my mother in law’s place, and that was only because I didn’t want to cause any drama. Of course, she (and the husband’s uncles and sisters) would have preferred that I had removed myself from the whatever gatherings there were while feeding the kid, but I will not be relegated to a separate room just because I have a hungry child. So my concession to their hangups was to cover up, for the sake of family harmony.
And really, being what my grandfather affectionately called “contrary”, I kind of wished that someone would have said something to me when I was breastfeeding in public, because I would thoroughly enjoyed setting them straight.
I generally like Maher, but he can be a total ass on women’s issues, and this is one of his worst moments.
Molly, although, as you say, it doesn’t take much effort to throw on a ponch, it also doesn’t take much effort to avert your eyes, in fact, that when I see a bystander doing otherwise, I assume that they’re hoping for a show. That’s perfectly harmless, but it’s also a bit tacky.
Molly, what were your strategies for making sure never to nurse in public when you were nursing?
Actually, my point wasn’t about not nursing in public–just about making some attempt to throw a little something on to avoid entertaining the general public. I used a shawl or baby blanket. Hell, there was usually a little towel or something already in the vicinity for mopping-up purposes–adjust it a couple of inches and I was good.
I realized when I posted the above that I would thereafter read a lot of posts implying that I put my delicate sensibilities above the needs of starving babies, or, as you put it, thought the worst of nursing mothers. Do I actually have to say that neither is true?
The weird part is that I’m reading this stuff from people I basically agree with. Of course nursing mothers shouldn’t be hassled. But neither should they operate on the assumption that everyone wants to share in the experience.
Mighty Ponygirl pointed out that, like many people, she finds the sight distracting–and, like anyone else with a modicum of decorum, makes the effort to ignore it. You can reasonably assume that the mother is aware of both the distraction and the effort. Nice women try to minimize it, @holes try to, pardon the expression, milk it.
(Once, when I was in late-stage pregnancy, we went out to dinner with some other couples, and the 5-week-old son of one of them. The baby slept through the first half of dinner. The mother finished her entree rather quickly, announced to all present that she was trying to get the baby to sleep through the night (with a 5-week-old. Right.), ostentatiously whipped out her boob and proceeded to nurse. On the table. Which of course, we all pointedly ignored–or ignored as best we could being a captive audience. (Needless to say, we skipped dessert.) I was already lactating but successfully fought the temptation to whip out my own boob and get her, SuperSoaker style.)
Excellent podcast - it’s on my must-listen list. I’m skeptical of Blank’s claim that the hymen didn’t exist in some sense before Dr Wosname identified it. That presupposes a level of ignorance about women’s bodies that may well have prevailed in the medical establishment and among men of learning (emphasis on men), but I’m willing to bet that midwives and women health practitioners were fully aware of its existence. It’s far to easy to assume that because something didn’t make it into the written record it was unknown - we give our ancestors too little credit for being able to figure out things that require only modest powers of observation.
I’ve never encountered these mystery women who put on a show for everyone’s entertainment. In fact, as I point out in the podcast, Maher’s problem seems to be with women who use their breasts for non-entertainment purposes. In fact, he states that fairly directly—the entertainment-based breast is good, the working breast, bad. Maher was defending hassling nursing mothers in public.
I don’t doubt there’s occasional women who show off, because it seems like parenting is a competition sport to a lot of people, but the issue isn’t shutting down “showing off”, which is hard to quantify, but nursing in general.
That presupposes a level of ignorance about women’s bodies that may well have prevailed in the medical establishment and among men of learning (emphasis on men), but I’m willing to bet that midwives and women health practitioners were fully aware of its existence.
Auguste and I discussed this, and I haven’t read her book, but I don’t know if she was using the “male knowledge is the only real knowledge” model. I suspect it’s more that people didn’t think much of it—there’s not much to think of. I see no reason, to boot, that women would look much at their hymens. Midwives had no reason to look at them, since by the time you’re pregnant, the hymen is long gone. But basically, without a need to “prove” virginity, the hymen probably wasn’t that big a deal.
But I don’t know. I’ve always been a little weirded out by all the fuss, because from what I can tell, I just didn’t have one, at least by the time I had sex. I’ve heard women swear they bled a lot, but if I did, it disappeared into the ether.
But who knows. Worth reading her book to find out. She’s definitely working on the theory that concepts like the “hymen” need social consensus of a sort to really exist. So maybe she meant that the hymen, as in the tissue, existed, but since it wasn’t meaningful, no one cared about it.
And really, being what my grandfather affectionately called “contrary”, I kind of wished that someone would have said something to me when I was breastfeeding in public, because I would thoroughly enjoyed setting them straight.
Well, for every one person who would have said something, there’d have been, like a thousand who would have have been compelled to avert their eyes, leave the area, pretend to be blind, etc. but who are too polite to say anything.
Some of us don’t think you should penalize people for good manners–especially if your aim is to pick a fight with some random jerk.
She didn’t violate good manners, though, which would require screaming at someone who maintained general politeness. So what’s the issue? How did she “penalize” someone for good manners?
Maher’s attitude was just wrong. He acts like that if men see a boob in public they must look at it.
How do men in primitive cultures, where women walk around without shirts, accomplish anything? The farming, hunting, building?
Oh, that’s right, they don’t have hang ups over boobs, b/c they are right there. Maybe something people in our country should learn.
Look, I don’t go out of my way to offend anyone, but I also don’t watch my every move to avoid it either. Especially when I’m not doing anything wrong. I just feel like it’s a shame when women who care what the general public thinks get harassed for breastfeeding in public and then those women are made to feel ashamed of being a woman in public using their breasts for what they were meant for, because they’ve been completely socialized to be the perfect shrinking violet. When people like me, who are perfectly happy to fight back and defend my right to exist in public, even as a nursing mother, are usually completely left alone.
And for the record, I also completely support any woman’s right not to breastfeed if that what she wants. Personally, I hated the whole experience, but breastmilk is free, formula is expensive, and babies are expensive enough without that added in. Plus, I was lucky enough to be able to work part time while my boys were infants and still have someone in the household able to earn enough money to actually pay the mortgage, etc., so I had the time and opportunity to do it.
If the tiny extra little bit of breast that you can see when a woman is nursing (rather than what you can see if she wear non-fundy clothing) is a big deal, you’ve got more problems than a ban on public feeding of babies can solve. Or you’re a shill for the formula industry.
…successfully fought the temptation to whip out my own boob and get her, SuperSoaker style.
Thank you Molly - You brought a smile to my face.
She didn’t violate good manners, though, which would require screaming at someone who maintained general politeness. So what’s the issue? How did she “penalize” someone for good manners?
We’re agreed, I think, that as a nursing mother, you shouldn’t be made to feel uncomfortable in a public place. But in that position, you do have the power to make other people uncomfortable, and it’s bullshit to pretend otherwise.
Ks was describing a situation–as a hypothetical, but not unknown in the real world–where a mother intentionally makes unoffending strangers in a public place uncomfortable, knowing that if anyone says boo, she’ll pull the outraged mother bit. Meanwhile, the majority of people around minding their own business, who wouldn’t dream of saying anything to her, are still put in the position of having to try not to react to someone who–in this scenario–is actively trying to bug them. So, yeah, penalized for their good manners.
And yes, such women exist. Unfortunately, being a mother and being an asshole are not mutually exclusive.
Now obviously, the vast majority of nursing mothers don’t do this; even the mothers who disagreed with me above apparently made a point of covering up, for the most part. They just want it clear they had, and have, the option to do otherwise. With which–is this clear yet?–I totally agree. But I’ve been on the receiving end of the above-described behavior. And from his rant, I suspect Maher has as well. And I too would like such women to knock it off.
Long time reader/lurker here…
Something that I always think about when I hear the debate about public-nursing, is about the sanitary issue. I’ve seen nursing mothers–and while I myself would rather most be discrete (as most of the ones I saw were), I admit that is MY issue of want, not theirs. They do have every right to breastfeed their child and not be harassed. (I do have a problem with those who do so as attention-getting–but I think Molly, NYC made the point that being a mother, and being an asshole are neither exclusive…)
What do you all do about the sanitary side though? Someone mentioned being in a restaurant, where a mother ‘whipped it out and fed ON the table”…? Hello, health-code violation? Breastmilk DOES count as one of those bodily fluids that transmits viruses. (This doesn’t mean I feel it should necessarily be relegated to the bathroom…) I do feel though, that nursing mothers should be aware of the potential for spillage and leakage. (Most I hope, are responsible and do take account of this.)
So…Um..yeah, just asking what others think, and throwing in 2 cents. Love the site, Amanda. ^_^
I posted about the people terrorizing Aurora, IL on my own blog. I also posted something about it here.
Amanda, what we are dealing with (in Aurora) are more than just racketeers — we are dealing with terrorists — the same group of anti-choice terrorists that we have been dealing with for the past quarter-century (yes, the Schneidler thugs). These people are a real threat to democracy here in America and we need to discuss how the anti-choice terrorists are still running free as a bird after 25 years of terrorist attacks on Planned Parenthood.
Shinotenshi — does this mean we can kick people out of Applebees for sneezing?
*laughs* I wish, although I’m guilty of sneezing without a tissue handy myself…
It is something I do wonder about–as yes, people should pay more attention to their health and potential-germ-spreading (period)–even though I know most won’t. Still, breast-milk IS in the same category as blood in terms of those massive-unsanitary bodily fluids.
I really don’t think that’s a battle you can win. It’s not like women are squeezing out a puddle onto the table and letting the baby lap it up. I’d much rather be sitting next to a nursing mother than some dipshit with the flu who isn’t covering his mouth when he sneezes.
Plus, it is also that new mother’s don’t care or know about germs, which almost any woman who has ever been 38 weeks pregnant(when my “nesting” instincts kicked in hardcore) will tell you is a big fat lie. Also, mothers with communicable diseases don’t breastfeed, for that very reason.
I didn’t think it was a battle I was going to win *sigh*…but it doesn’t mean that it isn’t my big issue with public-breastfeeding. As I said, I can admit that the fact that I personally would favor discretion is MY issue, not the mother’s.
Still, I’m grateful for the reassurances and comments. It’s something that isn’t often touched upon in discussions about public nursing that I’ve read, so I was curious. Thanks everyone. ^_^
Er…
I’m subscribed, but I just got another copy of the last episode instead of the new one.
shinotenshi - Generally, the milk from your nipple (in the kid’s mouth) goes right down his/her throat without hitting the atmosphere–a closed system, for the most part.
Any leakage tends to be confined to one’s person–or possibly the baby’s person. And since babies are just one messy, leaky (and occasionally smelly) bodily effluent after another anyway, you can’t be a stickler about these things, or you’ll just make yourself crazy.
togolosh and amanda, i assume you’re talking about hanne blank’s book about virginity? i was actually going to email you, amanda, and insist you read it. it’s so fascinating. i’m obsessed with celibacy/virginity and this is one of the best books i’ve read on the topic.
regarding hymens, blank said that yes, until whomever it was in the 1600s noticed the hymen, *no one* knew it existed, including midwives. every female mammal comes with a hymen and only less than 1% of women don’t have one. the only time a hymen deserves attention is if the woman has a really rare condition where the hymen is completely sealed over.
also, she said that she didn’t find proper research about it, but one researcher asked a large sample of women in her office whether they bled or not their first time and only 30% or so of them had. the hymen is so thin and naturally has so many perforations in it that it would make a bit of sense that an additional tear caused by a penis wouldn’t make someone bleed. i’m surprised that hasn’t been researched more, though.