[Laughable update (8PM): Instapundit links to this post, saying “It was hard to get a clear narrative that made sense of what was going on.” He also cites Orin Kerr at The Volokh Conspiracy, who has this excuse for the lack of upper-tier blogging about today’s events:
I’d really like to blog about the case, and I spent about 30 minutes this morning trying to research it, but I couldn’t get a good enough sense of what the facts are or what the precise cause of the protest is to really know what to make of it.Now that’s unbelievable. Are we talking about the same bloggers who were able to follow the intricacies of the Plame case? The Abramoff scandal? The whole WMD/yellowcake fracas? Come on, people. Try again.]
[My god. The depth of ignorance and denial over the lack of progressive blogging on this story is displayed in full flower at Chris’s diary at DKos, where he cross posted — and some of the excuses are mind-boggling.]
Chris Kromm of the Institute for Southern Studies and its blog Facing South, is appalled, rightfully so, at the sparse coverage of the historic march for justice in Jena, Lousiana.
It's not to say that it isn't being covered in the blogosphere at all — black bloggers have largely been responsible for the high profile of this case, picking up the ball where the melanin-challenged blogs of influence have dropped it. You'd think that the events today, which are being covered by the MSM, would mean that the story is now mainstream blogworthy, but you would be wrong. Chris:
* DailyKos features a handful of posts about injustice in Iraq today — but not a single entry on its main page, or even its user-generated "diaries," about this important case.What is the explanation? Oh, I could think of several, but overt racism isn't one of them. I have a couple of theories.* TalkingPointsMemo, a favorite of the DC wonk set, is similarly incensed about foreign policy, but apparently not about racial justice in the South — nothing there either.
* Long-time progressive blogger Atrios doesn't have a lot of posts up,but found time to touch on Paul Krugman, Iraq and the state of the Euro — but not this major issue.
* Surely TalkLeft — which has positioned itself as the leading progressive blog about criminal justice issues — would have something? Think again — not a single mention, not even in the quick news briefs!
* What about another progressive favorite, FireDogLake? A rant about Republicans being "little bitches," but nothing on the Jena 6.
When the Jena 6 does make an appearance on progressive blogs today, it's little more than a passing nod. Huffington Post has a blog post buried below the fold; ThinkProgress gives it a two-sentence news brief.
However, many of these blogs are eagerly pointing to news stories which suggest the Republican candidates don't care about black issues.
* "It's not my area of expertise". This is an old saw used to avoid discussing race — it's uncomfortable for white folks and they want to avoid land mines. the easiest way to do that is to say nothing at all, which still speaks volumes. Just about anything can be viewed through the prism of race; in this case it's not solely about race, the story of the Jena 6 is about our system of justice and how it can be affected by color, class, power structure, and the almighty dollar.
* "It's not my issue": Sorry to say, this gets reinforced by the professional race-bating, blacker-than-thou crowd such as Jesse Jackson, who chastised Barack Obama for "acting white" on the issue. That only makes otherwise supportive whites further paranoid. The "black enough" nonsense is divisive and so reflective of old-school mentality often seen in the establishment civil rights set still clinging to power. Of course then Jackson and his ilk will then criticize the lack of diversity in the group of marchers. it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
That said, it's not just the Jena 6. Sitting in the comfort of their bedrooms/offices/kitches (wherever), progressive bloggers got more riled up about a student at the University of Florida getting tased at a Kerry speech than an equal, no worse case up in NYC — a young black man, the son of a police officer, who was tased four times at a community barbecue and beaten with a nightstick 15 times and choked. He wasn't even charged with a crime, btw.
As Chris also noted in his post, many of the top blogs have eagerly cited a WaPO story that suggests the GOP doesn't care about black issues as Giuliani, Romney, Fred Thompson and Sen. John McCain are skipping Tavis Smiley's forum at Morgan State University in Baltimore that's coming up on PBS (9/27).
It's disappointing, but not surprising to see this blindness. As you all know I try mightily to make the Blend a safe space to discuss race, and even then, threads on the topic, save the Imus debacle, garner few comments. The progressive community still has a long way to go on race when it comes to the rubber hitting the road.
[UPDATE: Jane Hamsher of FDL isn’t keen that I blogged about this topic, she emailed me that she feels that she (or any of the A-List) cannot post on the matter are placed in a bad position because of this post now without having and will have to defend challenges of racism. She actually had someone slated to post on Jena 6 who bailed on her. That’s clearly not FDL’s fault, and Chris obviously wasn’t aware of that when he did his cursory surfing of the A-list.
Anyway, I specifically said that I don’t think any of the lack of “big boy” bloggers are racists trying ignoring the issue. That’s too black and white (ironically) a read on the subtleties of this — all of us are products of a racist culture, and the evil of that has made it so hard to overcome barriers even to discuss the topic. That’s what I said above.
This post wasn’t about “making” any of the mainstream A-list progressive bloggers cover this event, it was observing that a major event didn’t receive major blog coverage and musing why that is, given the groupthink on political issues of many stripes covered on large progressive blogs.
People can obviously blog about whatever they wish, but is it not unusual to see A-listers off-step on an issue the MSM is covering so widely? Usually it is the other way around. It’s an interesting and complex issue to discuss, but even on this level it’s obviously a third rail topic.
And no, I didn’t continually blogging about Jena 6 over the last while, it deserved all the attention it could (and it has now thankfully received it, from a core group of committed bloggers and the MSM). That I can add any more eyeballs to it now that haven’t been focused on it is what I’m doing now.]
[UPDATE 2: I’ve amended the above to precisely reflect the issue as Jane sees it, which is only fair. Here I am trying to ameliorate and all I get is grief. Oh well, it’s clear I’ve set some house on fire. For what it’s worth, it appears that the use of the ColorofChange “Free the Jena 6″ banner in itself is cause for surprising and enlightening commentary, as if I was endorsing no punishment for the teens.
This whole matter is like a Rorschach test. Everyone sees what they want to see in the post — perhaps it’s because of my poor writing, or maybe it’s because this topic of race is so charged (fear on both sides), that even an earnest observation becomes accusatory from another perspective. ]
***
Joe Solmonese of HRC gave a speech at the DC rally, linking the quest for social justice to us all — it should not be deterred by color, sexual orientation or any other attribute. It’s below the fold.
[NOTE (9/21, 12PM): Colin Sterling of HuffPost has written in to say that Chris’s characterization of its Jena 6 coverage was inaccurate, given the overall number of posts on the site about the subject. Chris was, in his post, referring to coverage of the march on that morning, as the event was getting under way, so his blog post reflected what he saw at the time, not an indication of any coverage at all — “But on this historic day for the most high-profile civil rights issue of the moment, where is the progressive blogosphere? I did a quick tour of the major “progressive” sites to see how they were covering it.”]My name is Joe Solmonese and I represent the largest gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender organization in the country. Am I am here — we are all here from the Human Rights Campaign — because this injustice cannot stand.
We are here because we know about bigotry. We know about hate. We know the pain in high school of standing apart. Of being taunted. Of standing up, only too often, to be shut down.
I am here — we are here — because you have stood with us. Because all of us know that one injustice against any of us is an injustice against all of us.
And I am here because I remember. I remember James Byrd. James was a gentle soul, a special soul. Someone who struggled his whole life with challenges, but was filled with love and was deeply loved in Jasper, Texas.
But James Byrd — at 49 — was savagely beaten, then chained to a pickup truck and literally dragged to his death. He was brutally murdered because he was black.
And then something really profound happened. Remember when George Bush was governor of Texas? Well, Governor Bush had a hate crimes bill on his desk. There was a lot of pressure to sign the bill because of what they did to James Byrd. So, George Bush said he’d sign that bill, but they had to take the gays out.
And here’s what happened. Stella Byrd, who has just buried her beaten, broken, gentle James said, If some of us are left out, then all of us are. Valuing one life and not valuing another is not right. And the Byrd family said No. They said No. And they walked away.
So, I stand here today with solidarity. I stand here for social justice. I stand here to free those young men. To say this will not stand. It cannot stand. I stand here for the Jena 6. I stand here today for James Byrd.
We will not forget. We will never walk away.
Thank you very much.
254 Responses to “Progressive blogosphere MIA on Jena 6”
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My personal problem with this story is that I don’t find anyone invloved to be a hero. The problem wasn’t that the Jena 6 were prosecuted (though the charge of murder, rather than battery, is clearly unjust and should be protested as such). The problem is that the white kids who hung the nooses up weren’t charged.
All of the activity on behalf of the Jena 6 seems to indicate that they ought to be set free entirely, unpunished for the violent crime that everyone agrees they committed. The progressive blogosphere emphatically should not call for the freeing of the Jena 6. Rather, it should be calling for the trial (on hate crimes charges) of those students who hung nooses from the trees.
I was actually noticing this as well and am disappointed that it is across all the major ones ( I only read a few). I do know though that people on the coasts have a really hard time grasping that blatant racism still exists. I had no real understanding until I actually visited backwoods Georgia with friend who grew up there. It was unbelievable to me and to all my friends who I told about it. Not an excuse, just a consideration.
Butter My Biscuits, you’re GOOD, Pam! If you and Kate ever accidentally work your way this far north, dinner is on me…
From Pam: “The progressive community still has a long way to go on race when it comes to the rubber hitting the road.”
While I waited for almost 2 hours this morning for the non-existant rally in Augusta, I decided to sit in the parking lot at the Capitol and listen to rant radio. Thought that it would be slanted news, but there would be SOMETHING. Instead, I heard about OJ Simpson on one channel and high school security/terrorism (regarding Emerson NJ area schools shut down) on the other. Decided to come home to watch CNN, MSNBC, etc.
Then at noon, flipped to local channel to see if there was anything- instead, first 4 stories were all local. Eventually, Jena was discussed and there is a rally in Portland, instead of Augusta, at 5 pm tonight.
Indeed, progressives aren’t where they should be on race. Or at least not here today. Hopefully, after work in Portland will be CONVENIENT enough for folks here.
I could have sworn I saw Atrios post about it a week or two ago, though I haven’t seen updates. Other than that, yeah, that list looks about right. Like anyone’s shocked that Firedoglake continues to ignore racial issues.
This seemed odd to me at first because all of the blogs I read have been covering it pretty heavily. Then I realized I’ve been reading mostly feminist blogs. Duh to me.
I noticed this, too! I’ve been surfing around trying to find updates on what’s going on today but have only seen mentions on this and the few other feminist blogs who’ve been following the case since the beginning. Mos Def discussed how there are “two Americas” when he appeared on Bill Maher’s show a few weeks ago, and that really shows in coverage of news like this. I was happy when the mainstream press started covering the Jena Six story, but then disheartened to see how so many of them didn’t bother to paint the whole picture, and left out details like the nooses, or what the assistant DA said to the students. It’s also really sad when you compare how much coverage OJ’s recent arrest has gotten in comparison to this case.
The progressive blogosphere emphatically should not call for the freeing of the Jena 6.
Nah, I think you’re wrong on this. We’re talking about criminal charges for a fight that happened because injustices had been heaped upon injustices–it was the final explosion of a group of kids who’d been shat on by the system all their lives. And it’s not going to get any better, no matter what happens in Jena because the white people in charge there are emphatically denying that race has anything to do with the story. It is the story. It’s a white power structure telling black people that they better stay in their place or they’re going to have their lives irrevocably ruined, and then blaming the media for indulging in perfectly accurate stereotypes of a racist southern town.
>>My personal problem with this story is that I don’t find anyone invloved to be a hero
You know that part where we tell the conservatives that in real life there are no mustache-twirling villains and that the people (’enemies’) they’re demonizing aren’t 100% pure evil? It goes both ways.
Last time I checked, social justice and human rights weren’t to be granted only to heroes.
Thanks Pam…the silence was pretty deafening to this white girl.
Also, I’d like to take issue with what Midwest Product said–
In spite of the fact that “Free the Jena 6″ is the slogan, everyone I’ve heard interviewed on NPR (Diane Rehm, Morning Edition, Day to Day) and on network news bits has made sure to say that the issue isn’t about whether the kids who did the beating ought to be prosecuted; it’s about the severity of that prosecution contrasted with the lack of charges or consequences for the white kids who were also involved in creating the trouble. I haven’t heard a single person actually talking about setting them free.
I know it’s a fine point to make, but an important one, I think, especially given the fact that Mychal Bell has been IN PRISON and remains there even though the sentence has been vacated, since last December. I wouldn’t mind “freeing” him while we wait around to see what the DA is going to do.
Last time I checked, social justice and human rights weren’t to be granted only to heroes.
No kidding. No one is saying the kids were angels — certainly bloodying and beating someone with a shoe over a racial spat is not adult behavior and justifies punishment. But 1) do they have the right six individuals, and 2) is attempted murder the appropriate charge and 3) does the justice system have a history of doing wrong by those least able to fight it?
I love the juxtaposition of this case with the continuing saga of another injustice of the system — O.J. Simpson. That SOB deserved hard time and jury nullification got him off the first time around. Will he go two for two?
Exactly, dingbat. The (white) people involved in the beating of a black student were all given probation. So, they are “free” after committing the same act of physical violence. Why were the black students originally charged with attempted murder and conspiracy to commit murder? That’s the issue when people say “free the Jena 6.”
Pam, I see your point, but it is also true that no bloggers like to be told what they should post about - I’m sure you feel the same way when somebody makes some demand that you post about their particular pet issue.
It is fair to criticize supposed progressives for ignoring issues of race and social justice, another thing to insist someone blog on one particular incident or another…usually that gets dismissed as concern trolling.
Let’s not forget the kid who was charged with larceny after wresting a sawed-off shotgun away from a white kid during another disturbance. Nothing at all about the fact that the white kid had pulled a fucking gun in the the middle of a fight–just that the black kid had managed to get it away from him, but hadn’t used it.
I’m hardly MIA. I just posted my feelings, brief though they are, at my weblog. Personally, I’m getting tired of the excuses myself, as well as this thread of “well, they deserve whatever happens to them bedcause they did a bad thing” that runs all though otherwise rational people. I expect that kind of bullshit talk from conservatives, not liberals.
The (white) people involved in the beating of a black student were all given probation. So, they are “free” after committing the same act of physical violence. Why were the black students originally charged with attempted murder and conspiracy to commit murder? That’s the issue when people say “free the Jena 6.”
Again, the problem I see here is that the white kids who beat a black kid are free, and that the white kids who hung the nooses are free, NOT that the black kids who beat a white kid aren’t. Six kids getting together to beat another kid isn’t a fight, it’s an assault (I do absolutely agree that Mychal Bell, whose sentence was vacated, should not be in prison. But I don’t believe that the people chanting “Free the Jena 6″ are saying that. I think they really want all 6 to be released, with all charges dropped. And I think that’s wrong).
But 1) do they have the right six individuals, and 2) is attempted murder the appropriate charge and 3) does the justice system have a history of doing wrong by those least able to fight it?
Murder is obviously not the appropriate charge. That doesn’t mean no charges should be filed. And the fact that the justice system has previously mistreated innocent individuals hardly means that other (not innocent) individuals from a similar community get a free pass.
Advocating the freeing of the Jena 6 will ultimately affirm the ability of the white kids to commit hate crimes, because that advocation suggests that it was the (non)punishment of the white kids that was correct, i.e., that kids who commit assault based on a racial dispute deserve at most probation.
We’re not saying that no charges should be filed. We’re saying they should be treated equally. Which they aren’t, because Bell faced 15 years in prison for committing a crime that a white man merely got probation for.
Pam, I see your point, but it is also true that no bloggers like to be told what they should post about
No, they don’t and I get demands to post about one topic or another all the time.
However, this isn’t about “making” any of the mainstream “big boy” progressive bloggers cover this event, it’s the fact that by default they didn’t, and discussing the possible reasons why is a legitimate discussion. It’s way more complicated that tossing the race card around.
I have to say I’m shocked Talk Left hasn’t covered this case. I don’t read that blog regularly, but I know Jeralyn Merritt was all over the Duke lacrosse case. Look at this long list of posts about it. And not one single post about the Jena 6.
Well, I guess part of the problem is that the “progressive” blogosphere … isn’t. (uh. but you knew that.)
The case actually made the front page of the Washington Post this morning (and was covered by NPR — I was listening and reading at the same time).
I don’t know how you go about fixing this mess so that there’s a fair outcome for everyone involved, but my mind keeps going back to the beginning of the story, when the black students asked the principal for permission to sit under the shade tree. And I think, why the hell did that not raise huge red flags in the school? Why weren’t the adults in charge looking out for the kids?
I just read the post at Dailykos and I want to kill myself. uh. I thought Chris was very clear in not so much criticizing any sites for ignoring this, but merely pointing out how odd it is that there’s nary a mention of something on progressive sites that black america is full-on up in arms about. That’s the point. No matter how anyone feels about the issues in Jena, that IS strange, you have to admit.
Frankly, I’ve never understood why this story is so hard to grasp. The first time I heard about it, even on the surface, it seemed so obvious that there was a startling racism at play in the way the town, the high school, the prosecutors, were handling it all. Justice was not being served, period. How that doesn’t make every american (and yes, in my fantasy land I wish even more so with progressive leaders and voices) a little bit sick in the pit of their stomach, I don’t know.
The Wilmington News Journal has this story on the front page today and relates it to unfair differences in incarcertation rates in Delaware. delawareonline dot com. Inequality of this type cheapens the entire justice system and our ability to live by the rule of law. If you are Scooter Libby that’s great, but if you are a black teenager, not so much.
Anna, as i understand it, red flags were raised for the principal of the school. When the nooses were hung (hanged?), the principal recommended expulsion for the kids who did it. It was the school district that told them to only suspend the students for a week.
Midwest, where have you seen anyone advocate that all parties involved should get off scot-free? Everyone that i’ve seen write or heard talk about Jena has said that the white kids should have been punished, and that the Jena 6 should be punished somehow for the assault. “Free the Jena 6″ just fits on a sign better than “Give the Jena 6 25 hours of community service, probation until they turn 18, and in-school suspension for a week…oh, and make sure that the white kids get proportional punishments”.
Again, the problem I see here is that the white kids who beat a black kid are free, and that the white kids who hung the nooses are free, NOT that the black kids who beat a white kid aren’t.
So should the white kids also have been charged with second degree murder since they did the same exact thing that the black kids who were charged with second degree murder did?
I’d like to mention that the Jena 6 made the news today on French Canadian channels in Quebec. Which should tell you how weird it is that it’s not making a lot of noise in the country actually affected.
One thing that I think is interesting is that I’ve been getting tons of info from blogs about the Jena 6 - because the ones I read are the feminist blogs. Pandagon, Feministe, Feministing, Shake’s Sis, etc., - they have all been posting about it from the beginning. Interesting that they’re so much more committed to such issues than the non-feminist progressive blogosphere. Wonder why that is (not really).
Pam,
With all due respect, I think the simple reason for the lack of coverage is that some of us are not convinced a great injustice has occurred here. Perhaps rather than lambasting folks for insufficient coverage, you could provide some information that might persuade.
I see references in the comments above to other incidents that predated the alleged attack, but no links and no sources.
I like to know what I’m talking about before I get outraged, and in this case, all of the news reports seem to tell the same story: an attack by 6 people on an unarmed person, resulting in a hospital visit. The alleged attack occurred against a backdrop of racial tension (which is to say, it occurred in America).
But has a grave injustice occurred? I don’t know. Activism led to Mychal Bell’s conviction being overturned, and that is indeed a victory. Activist pressure led to the charges being downgraded from attempted murder to conspiracy and battery, also a victory. To go from that to “Freed the Jena 6″ is a stretch indeed, and few intelligent people will make that leap in the absence of compelling evidence or information.
Thank you.
Jim Booth at Scholars & Rogues has been ahead of this story from beginning. He’s written about it seven times at S&R, beginning on June 28.
http://scholarsandrogues.wordpress.com/2007/06/28/the-jena-6-and-the-old-south-or-plus-ca-changeyou-know-the-rest/
Actually, I was wondering myself what happened to this story. There was a large protest in Jena a couple of weeks ago, but still not much news.. Keep up the good work Pam. I’m sure the officials in Jena would like the who mess to go away. Too bad.
To me it gives power to the blogs who ignore an issue when it is pointed out that they have ignored an issue. Blogs are not government ran or government sanctioned therefore a blog’s content should not be dictated. If every person who complains about what another blog did not cover and in fact make another post covering what they feel is not covered then perhaps the topic will get enough coverage. For the record, I don’t normally read or comment at the larger blogs because I think they are group think. However, I must say it sounds so much like “PLEASE VALIDATE ME.” That is a sad existence, not to feel validated unless the people (who are typically in an oppressor role) show validation. If it was my blog, I would not be bullied into discussing a topic that I for whatever reason did not feel like discussing. Where is the power from the inside?
Btw, Jena 6 has been all over CNN all morning, and there is a long segment scheduled for tonight.
nikkos,
This post has a pretty good summary of everything that led up to the assault, complete with links.
People, as a rule, could care less about issues that they don’t perceive as affecting them in some form or other.
The fact that a bunch of mostly while bloggers aren’t really spending much of their time worrying about the Jena 6 isn’t exactly a big shocker.
Thanks randomliberal, I’ll be sure to check it out!
Oops, mostly *white
Blogs are not government ran or government sanctioned therefore a blog’s content should not be dictated.
Geez, how many times and ways to I have to say that I am not dictating content, it was observing a major event that didn’t receive major blog coverage and musing why that is, given the groupthink on political issues of many stripes covered on them. It’s an interesting and complex issue to discuss, but even on this level it’s a third rail topic.
People can blog about whatever they wish, but is it not unusual to see A-listers off-step on an issue the MSM is covering so widely? Usually it is the other way around.
Has anyone been watching CNN? One of the first questions asked was whether there were any white faces in the crowd at Jena. The reporters made a point to say that there are white faces and that most of them tend to be just out of college and had taken race/ethnic or women’s studies classes. This seems to follow the same lines of what kind of blogs are covering the issue.
I wish I could be there today. I’m glad there are some local protests happening here in the Twin Cities though. I’ve been writing to the local papers encouraging them to write about the Jena 6 (as it has been largely ignored). They finally put something in today about the protests.
Jena Justice
Jeez, the Jena 6 have been getting more coverage and support from Notre Dame (and I mean the official institutions, not just Progressive Students Alliance) than the ‘progressive’ blogosphere. Is that a good sign for ND or a bad sign for progressive bloggers?
http://media.www.ndsmcobserver.com/media/storage/paper660/news/2007/09/20/News/Brown.Wear.Black.Today.Green.Friday-2981019.shtml
http://media.www.ndsmcobserver.com/media/storage/paper660/news/2007/09/11/Viewpoint/Free-The.Jena.Six-2959847.shtml
If anyone is looking for more information about the whole saga, there’s a Wikipedia article based heavily on local newspaper reporting that covers the case pretty well, and succinctly.
OK, having read the post randomliberal directed me to (thanks again!), I feel a bit more qualified to comment.
Were the white kids that instigated a fight appropriately charged? I don’t know. Not enough info to determine. Should they have been charged with attempted murder too? Again, I don’t know.
Should the white guy that pulled the shotgun have been charged with something? Yes.
Was the hanging of nooses and the subsequent slap on the wrist by the super. shameful? Absolutely, yes.
Does this mean we should agitate to “Free The Jena 6?” In my opinion, no.
Perhaps the message is the problem. Rather than “Free the Jena 6,” the message should be “Equal Justice Under the Law,” meaning, prosecute the white kids too. “Free the Jena 6″ implies innocence and wrongful arrest. I hear whispers that “people get charged for things they didn’t do” in Jena “all the time,” but that is insufficient in my opinion, for me to take up the cry, “Free the Jena 6.”
If these kids are innocent, then again, I’m waiting for someone to make the case. If not, then the activism which has led to Bell’s overturned conviction and to the downgraded charges is laudable, but at this point, sufficient. I think the victory has already been won- in the sense that the attempted murder charges have been dropped and Bell’s conviction overturned. Now that more sensible charges have been filed, I saw let the justice system do its job. Let’s see what comes at trial.
I can’t get the stupid Kos page to load. It never works on my computer. I think it dies on the comment load.
Pam, I think the reason that Tlazolteotl (if I’m reading correctly) and myself read this post and thought “concern trolling” is how you seem to be conflating ignorance and willful denial (especially in the tone of the extended block quote).
Your key point, the long distance we need to travel to see actual progressive action on issues of race, is undeniable.
Your expectation that the progressive heavy hitters should be writing about this issue is also fair. And I agree that the absence of blog coverage of the Jena six is appalling, but you seem to be assigning motive and intent to inaction. Maybe you’re cutting just a little too close to the bone. From the inside, white male privilege and ignorance of racial strife feels… normal. And when you tell me I’m missing something important and need to act I’ll listen. But when you seem to be saying that I’m deliberately ignoring something for reasons of race, it’s just much easier to throw up a wall and ignore the remainder of your argument.
As a fellow blogger of Jim’s at S&R, not only has he been one of the first on the Jena 6 issue, but he’s been one of the best–unflinchingly covering the issue and exposing the heavy cloud of racism that still hangs over the South.
I think the problem here is that we expect our “leaders” to be opinion movers on every issue, and like it or not, the blogs Chris cited are considered “leaders” in the progblogsphere. But–and here’s the thing–if they don’t show leadership, we can do it ourselves. I didn’t need DKos or Talkleft OR the MSM to teach me about Jena–I had the privilege of working alongside someone who explored the case in depth.
If the blogs you read aren’t discussing the issues you want to hear about, write your own blog or tell them to pay attention. That’s the only way.
Yes, Paul. Because this case is EXACTLY like the Duke rape case. (Talk about willful ignorance)
I have never said that anyone is ignoring the issue deliberately. Now if you have a beef with Chris Kromm about his view in the blockquote, by all means address that. If you’ve ever read my catalog of posts on race, you’d realize that people who are defensive want to see walls where there are none (or artificially created), and would rather ignore difficult discussions about race rather than engage on them. Both sides have enabled this to occur.
Also, please read the main post as I have updated it. Joe Solmonese of HRC gets it.
Most bloggers don’t deal with cultural issues “well” at all. I’m not saying this as a good thing or a bad thing, it just is what it is. Namely, because people in the blogosphere like things that have solutions. And the solutions to problems like this, frankly, are a little unrealistic.
In my opinion nothing short than dropping civil rights violations against an entire community or two like this will stop this. There’s no amount of public pressure, no protesting, no information, nothing. This is a local issue.
But you go into some of these discriminitory small town “good’ol boy” networks, rip them up and send those guilty of systematic discrmination to prison for a sentence, so that they, and others in those position knows that they mean business.
That’ll result in REAL change.
The problem is that this is an awful long limb to climb out on. And if it turns out that something was done by an Africian-American kid to start that? Bye bye limb. Personally, I’ve seen this happen enough that I know that this is nothing short of horseshit, as these places have been like this, literally as long as they’ve existed. However, again, it is what it is.
Errr..and by dropping, what I mean is charging, for example in this case it’s obvious that the school board supported the racisim of the kids, and they should be held responsible for this.
The story was listed in Fark today, labeled ‘Asinine’ and posted with the headline “If you are beaten and bloodied by six people in Louisiana, expect thousands of people to show up to root for your attackers.”
Classy.
I’d like to second Anna Phor above about how the “progressive blogosphere” isn’t. Honestly, that word has been misappropriated by a predominantly white male chattering class who are scarcely left of the center, which is off to the right in this day and age. (When I started writing for a wonkish “progressive” blog last year, I asked my colleagues to define the term and none of them really could, though they pointed to the blogs and periodicals they read as evidence of progressive politics. When I guest blogged at TPM Cafe, my posts about race and poverty in post-Katrina New Orleans fell totally flat, unlike my one post about electoral politics that got almost 40 comments.)
To me progressive politics is at its core about justice, equity and inclusion, not about electoral politics, political strategy generally speaking (Iraq, anyone?), or incremental change in exclusionary, punitive social policy. It’s about change through activism in formal (e.g., government”) and informal (i.e., “street”) channels. It’s reflected in events like the U.S. Social Forum, and not YouTube Presidential campaign debates.
No doubt white folks are uncomfortable talking about or confronting issues of race (ironically[?], Andrew Sullivan recently linked to an interesting study re: the differential racial effects of subtle/chronic racism vs. overt/acute racism - how the former causes stress for blacks and the latter for whites, because whites don’t see the former, and thus can’t grasp the latter because it is so *shocking* to them). It’s like constant egg on our faces (I am white), in some ways.
I get Ezra, and some of the Atlantic bloggers in my Google reader, but I end up reading only about 25% of what they write, versus reading virtually everything from Pandagon, Professor Zero, and other feminist, persons of color and social activist websites. Ultimately, I’m just not that interested in their quarterbacking, abstracted political commentary. And as a woman, an activist, an academic, and a blogger, it drives me insane that the voices of women and people of color are still considered outside the mainstream.
Rock on Pam!!
FYI to everyone: the BBC this morning did a feature on the Jena 6, incl. interviewing people at the rally.
Perhaps the message is the problem. Rather than “Free the Jena 6,” the message should be “Equal Justice Under the Law,” meaning, prosecute the white kids too.
Yes, let’s agitate for something that won’t happen and let an injustice stand while we do it. Good strategy! You should run for Congress! You’ll fit right in. After all, if something actually gets done — like having the conviction overturned — that’s just proof that we shouldn’t have complained in the first place.
nikkos, as far as i’ve seen, the charges of the other five kids have not been downgraded from attempted murder. It was just Bell’s charges. Even then, Bell was charged with aggravated battery. As i understand the law (but INAL, so grain of salt included), for battery to be “aggravated” it requires a deadly weapon. The deadly weapon involved? A sneaker. Also, the kid they beat up was released from the hospital and went to a school social that night.
And no, no white kids were charged in the party fight, the white guy who pulled the shotgun wasn’t charged, and the kids who hung the nooses to start this whole business were suspended for three whole days.
Also, again
fwiw Radly Balko, (Libertarian) has been blogging about this for a while. It’s where I first read about it.
Nikkos - you should check out Friends of Justice, they are a multi-racial activist organization in TX/LA advocating on behalf of the Jena 6, as part of their mission of equal due process under the law.
http://friendsofjustice.wordpress.com/
They are Southern, religious progressives, FYI.
randomliberal:
Thanks for the reply. I’m not qualified to determine if “aggravated” is the correct charge. Certainly, it’s better than attempted murder. News reports do in fact indicate that “Five of the black teens were initially charged with attempted murder. That charge was reduced to battery for all but one, who has yet to be arraigned; the sixth was charged as a juvenile.” (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hEDGACsk9ZRgdFmzTA-FtR5-3LdQ)
I understand the point about what does and does not make for a good sign. But if the sign is outright misleading, what good is it? Not much, I would propose.
Again, I propose that “Equal Justice” should be the message. It’s even shorter than “Free the Jena 6,” AND it has the added benefit of being an accurate description of what the goal of these protests should be. Also, I bet a lot of folks- the MIA progressives Pam laments- would be willing to jump on that bandwagon.
Does anybody REALLY think they should be simply freed? I don’t think so. If so, I haven’t heard it, nor has a case been made for that position. Has a case been made for equal justice? YES. Then why isn’t THAT the point?
Let’s see… Pam’s post is about the dearth of coverage of this issue in progressive blogs. And the very first commenter attempts to turn the discussion toward whether a slogan/soundbite like “Free the Jena 6″ is a appropriate course of action.
Great job of deflection, guys. Textbook, even.
Did I just see racism referred to as a “pet issue”?
nikkos, as far as i’ve seen, the charges of the other five kids have not been downgraded from attempted murder. It was just Bell’s charges. Even then, Bell was charged with aggravated battery.
Here’s another possible reason to throw into the mix: I followed this story until the charges against Bell were downgraded and the conviction overturned. I saw several “celebratory” posts and “victory in Jena” banners…and I don’t recall anything pointing out that the other five kids were still in trouble.
It’s possible that some progressive bloggers thought the issue was over–or, at the very least, in the hands of a judge who was doing the right thing and it was therefore “covered”.
(Oops–I blasphemed too soon.)
Pam’s reasons probably explain why the blogs weren’t following the story too closely, and “not following closely” is probably partially responsible for the dearth of coverage today. (”Jena? Is that still going on? Huh.”)
Surely TalkLeft — which has positioned itself as the leading progressive blog about criminal justice issues — would have something?
TalkLeft blogged at length about how the black woman who was accusing the white men of raping and assaulting her, was lying. That was the sum and substance of the TalkLeft Duke lacrosse team posts, and I got banned from TalkLeft for challenging this view.
I am entirely unsurprised that TalkLeft is not blogging about the Jena 6. If one or all of the white students involved is charged, then, and only then, would I expect TalkLeft to start blogging about it.
I like Jane Hamsher and most of her team but they themselves have placed themselves in the hole of being perceived as racist through recidivist childish bullshit on their own site. There is no reason why Jane should not be addressing this issue front-on; if someone perceives her as racist let her refute the charges or wear them. She is a blogger, not a goddam china doll.
First, thanks to Mnemosyne, randomliberal and Leigh for your comments.
A question:
Does anyone here really think the Jena 6 should be “freed?”
If yes, please explain why.
If no, then why adopt that as slogan?
Isn’t “Equal Justice” what we’re REALLY after?
It’s SHORTER than “Free The Jena 6;” it’s a cause progressive bloggers (hell, all Americans) can get behind; AND it has the added benefit of actually specking to the issue at hand.
P.S. to randomliberal:
News reports indicate:
“On December 4, about three months after the nooses were discovered, six teens, dubbed the Jena 6, were accused of beating classmate Justin Barker. The six — Mychal Bell, Robert Bailey Jr., Carwin Jones, Bryant Purvis, Theo Shaw and Jesse Ray Beard — were originally charged with attempted second-degree murder and conspiracy, according to LaSalle Parish District Attorney Reed Walters.
“Bell, the only one of the six who remains in jail, was to be sentenced Thursday after convictions for aggravated second-degree battery and conspiracy to do the same, but both charges have been vacated, awaiting further action by the district attorney.
Charges for Bailey, Jones and Shaw also were reduced to battery and conspiracy when they were arraigned, while Purvis still awaits arraignment.
The charges for Beard, who was 14 at the time of the alleged crime, are unavailable because he’s a juvenile.”
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/09/20/jena.six/?iref=mpstoryview
Karmakin,
Though no more unrealistic than, say, the proposed solutions to the Iraq War or fighting “terrorism”. Really, few political problems have clear-cut answers that everyone can get behind.
The incident itself may have been local, but it was symptomatic of a nation-wide problem, that is, the structural racism of the judicial system. Jena serves perfectly as a sort of microcosm of what’s wrong with the United States as a whole.
First, thanks to Mnemosyne, randomliberal and Leigh for your comments.
A question:
Does anyone here really think the Jena 6 should be “freed?”
If yes, please explain why.
If no, then why adopt that as slogan? Isn’t “Equal Justice” what we’re REALLY after? It’s SHORTER than “Free The Jena 6;” it’s a cause progressive bloggers (hell, all Americans) can get behind; AND it has the added benefit of actually specking to the issue at hand.
P.S. to randomliberal:
News reports indicate:
“On December 4, about three months after the nooses were discovered, six teens, dubbed the Jena 6, were accused of beating classmate Justin Barker. The six — Mychal Bell, Robert Bailey Jr., Carwin Jones, Bryant Purvis, Theo Shaw and Jesse Ray Beard — were originally charged with attempted second-degree murder and conspiracy, according to LaSalle Parish District Attorney Reed Walters.
Bell, the only one of the six who remains in jail, was to be sentenced Thursday after convictions for aggravated second-degree battery and conspiracy to do the same, but both charges have been vacated, awaiting further action by the district attorney.
Charges for Bailey, Jones and Shaw also were reduced to battery and conspiracy when they were arraigned, while Purvis still awaits arraignment. The charges for Beard, who was 14 at the time of the alleged crime, are unavailable because he’s a juvenile.”
(from CNN. I’d post the link but I think it is causing my comments to be gobbled up by the Internetz.)
testing..testing…are my comments being held in moderation or what?
First, thanks to Mnemosyne, randomliberal and Leigh for your comments.
A question:
Does anyone here really think the Jena 6 should be “freed?”
If yes, please explain why.
If no, then why adopt that as slogan? Isn’t “Equal Justice” what we’re REALLY after? It’s SHORTER than “Free The Jena 6;” it’s a cause progressive bloggers (hell, all Americans) can get behind; AND it has the added benefit of actually specking to the issue at hand.
P.S. to randomliberal:
News reports indicate:
“On December 4, about three months after the nooses were discovered, six teens, dubbed the Jena 6, were accused of beating classmate Justin Barker. The six — Mychal Bell, Robert Bailey Jr., Carwin Jones, Bryant Purvis, Theo Shaw and Jesse Ray Beard — were originally charged with attempted second-degree murder and conspiracy, according to LaSalle Parish District Attorney Reed Walters.
Bell, the only one of the six who remains in jail, was to be sentenced Thursday after convictions for aggravated second-degree battery and conspiracy to do the same, but both charges have been vacated, awaiting further action by the district attorney.
Charges for Bailey, Jones and Shaw also were reduced to battery and conspiracy when they were arraigned, while Purvis still awaits arraignment. The charges for Beard, who was 14 at the time of the alleged crime, are unavailable because he’s a juvenile.”
(from CNN. I’d post the link but I think it is causing my comments to be gobbled up by the Internetz.)
First, thanks to Mnemosyne, randomliberal and Leigh for your comments.
A question:
Does anyone here really think the Jena 6 should be “freed?”
If yes, please explain why.
If no, then why adopt that as slogan? Isn’t “Equal Justice” what we’re REALLY after? It’s SHORTER than “Free The Jena 6;” it’s a cause progressive bloggers (hell, all Americans) can get behind; AND it has the added benefit of actually specking to the issue at hand.
P.S. to randomliberal:
News reports indicate:
“On December 4, about three months after the nooses were discovered, six teens, dubbed the Jena 6, were accused of beating classmate Justin Barker. The six — Mychal Bell, Robert Bailey Jr., Carwin Jones, Bryant Purvis, Theo Shaw and Jesse Ray Beard — were originally charged with attempted second-degree murder and conspiracy, according to LaSalle Parish District Attorney Reed Walters.
“Bell, the only one of the six who remains in jail, was to be sentenced Thursday after convictions for aggravated second-degree battery and conspiracy to do the same, but both charges have been vacated, awaiting further action by the district attorney.
“Charges for Bailey, Jones and Shaw also were reduced to battery and conspiracy when they were arraigned, while Purvis still awaits arraignment. The charges for Beard, who was 14 at the time of the alleged crime, are unavailable because he’s a juvenile.”
(from CNN. I’d post the link but I think it is causing my comments to be gobbled up by the Internetz.)
My “testing” comment went through fine but my response to Mnemosyne, randomliberal and Leigh keeps getting eaten…jut wanted y’all to know Im trying to reply, but for some reason my comments are not appearing on the site. Thanks.
First, thanks to Mnemosyne, randomliberal and Leigh for your comments.
A question:
Does anyone here really think the Jena 6 should be “freed?”
If yes, please explain why.
If no, then why adopt that as slogan? Isn’t “Equal Justice” what we’re REALLY after? It’s SHORTER than “Free The Jena 6;” it’s a cause progressive bloggers (hell, all Americans) can get behind; AND it has the added benefit of actually specking to the issue at hand.
P.S. to randomliberal:
News reports indicate:
“On December 4, about three months after the nooses were discovered, six teens, dubbed the Jena 6, were accused of beating classmate Justin Barker. The six — Mychal Bell, Robert Bailey Jr., Carwin Jones, Bryant Purvis, Theo Shaw and Jesse Ray Beard — were originally charged with attempted second-degree murder and conspiracy, according to LaSalle Parish District Attorney Reed Walters.
“Bell, the only one of the six who remains in jail, was to be sentenced Thursday after convictions for aggravated second-degree battery and conspiracy to do the same, but both charges have been vacated, awaiting further action by the district attorney.
“Charges for Bailey, Jones and Shaw also were reduced to battery and conspiracy when they were arraigned, while Purvis still awaits arraignment. The charges for Beard, who was 14 at the time of the alleged crime, are unavailable because he’s a juvenile.”
(from CNN. I’d post the link but I think it is causing my comments to be gobbled up by the Internetz.)
Look, the Progressive movement in America were never left-wing, they were a technocratic group that championned eugenics, amongst other such nice things. If anything, the progressive blogosphere is living up to its name. It’s just a shame that the left-wing blogosphere wants to tie itself up to the ‘progressives’ instead of creating its own space whose purpose is not just to elect Democrats but effect real social change.
First, thanks to Mnemosyne, randomliberal and Leigh for your comments.
A question:
Does anyone here really think the Jena 6 should be “freed?”
If yes, please explain why.
If no, then why adopt that as slogan? Isn’t “Equal Justice” what we’re REALLY after? It’s SHORTER than “Free The Jena 6;” it’s a cause progressive bloggers (hell, all Americans) can get behind; AND it has the added benefit of actually specking to the issue at hand.
P.S. to randomliberal:
News reports indicate:
“On December 4, about three months after the nooses were discovered, six teens, dubbed the Jena 6, were accused of beating classmate Justin Barker. The six — Mychal Bell, Robert Bailey Jr., Carwin Jones, Bryant Purvis, Theo Shaw and Jesse Ray Beard — were originally charged with attempted second-degree murder and conspiracy, according to LaSalle Parish District Attorney Reed Walters.
“Bell, the only one of the six who remains in jail, was to be sentenced Thursday after convictions for aggravated second-degree battery and conspiracy to do the same, but both charges have been vacated, awaiting further action by the district attorney.
“Charges for Bailey, Jones and Shaw also were reduced to battery and conspiracy when they were arraigned, while Purvis still awaits arraignment. The charges for Beard, who was 14 at the time of the alleged crime, are unavailable because he’s a juvenile.”
(from CNN. I’d post the link but I think it is causing my comments to be gobbled up by the Internetz.)
P.S. to randomliberal:
News reports indicate:
“On December 4, about three months after the nooses were discovered, six teens, dubbed the Jena 6, were accused of beating classmate Justin Barker. The six — Mychal Bell, Robert Bailey Jr., Carwin Jones, Bryant Purvis, Theo Shaw and Jesse Ray Beard — were originally charged with attempted second-degree murder and conspiracy, according to LaSalle Parish District Attorney Reed Walters.
“Bell, the only one of the six who remains in jail, was to be sentenced Thursday after convictions for aggravated second-degree battery and conspiracy to do the same, but both charges have been vacated, awaiting further action by the district attorney.
“Charges for Bailey, Jones and Shaw also were reduced to battery and conspiracy when they were arraigned, while Purvis still awaits arraignment. The charges for Beard, who was 14 at the time of the alleged crime, are unavailable because he’s a juvenile.”
(from CNN. I’d post the link but I think it is causing my comments to be gobbled up by the Internetz.)
P.S. to randomliberal:
News reports indicate:
“On December 4, about three months after the nooses were discovered, six teens, dubbed the Jena 6, were accused of beating classmate Justin Barker. The six — Mychal Bell, Robert Bailey Jr., Carwin Jones, Bryant Purvis, Theo Shaw and Jesse Ray Beard — were originally charged with attempted second-degree murder and conspiracy, according to LaSalle Parish District Attorney Reed Walters.
“Bell, the only one of the six who remains in jail, was to be sentenced Thursday after convictions for aggravated second-degree battery and conspiracy to do the same, but both charges have been vacated, awaiting further action by the district attorney.
“Charges for Bailey, Jones and Shaw also were reduced to battery and conspiracy when they were arraigned, while Purvis still awaits arraignment. The charges for Beard, who was 14 at the time of the alleged crime, are unavailable because he’s a juvenile.”
(from CNN. I’d post the link but I think it is causing my comments to be gobbled up by the Internetz.)
Hell, I quit blogging rather than write about it.
randomliberal:
News reports indicate:
“On December 4, about three months after the nooses were discovered, six teens, dubbed the Jena 6, were accused of beating classmate Justin Barker. The six — Mychal Bell, Robert Bailey Jr., Carwin Jones, Bryant Purvis, Theo Shaw and Jesse Ray Beard — were originally charged with attempted second-degree murder and conspiracy, according to LaSalle Parish District Attorney Reed Walters.
“Bell, the only one of the six who remains in jail, was to be sentenced Thursday after convictions for aggravated second-degree battery and conspiracy to do the same, but both charges have been vacated, awaiting further action by the district attorney.
“Charges for Bailey, Jones and Shaw also were reduced to battery and conspiracy when they were arraigned, while Purvis still awaits arraignment. The charges for Beard, who was 14 at the time of the alleged crime, are unavailable because he’s a juvenile.”
(from CNN. I’d post the link but I think it is causing my comments to be gobbled up by the Internetz.)
Pam, you’ll be happy to know the AFL-CIO is paying attention.
randomliberal:
News reports indicate:
“On December 4, about three months after the nooses were discovered, six teens, dubbed the Jena 6, were accused of beating classmate Justin Barker. The six — Mychal Bell, Robert Bailey Jr., Carwin Jones, Bryant Purvis, Theo Shaw and Jesse Ray Beard — were originally charged with attempted second-degree murder and conspiracy, according to LaSalle Parish District Attorney Reed Walters.
“Bell, the only one of the six who remains in jail, was to be sentenced Thursday after convictions for aggravated second-degree battery and conspiracy to do the same, but both charges have been vacated, awaiting further action by the district attorney.
“Charges for Bailey, Jones and Shaw also were reduced to battery and conspiracy when they were arraigned, while Purvis still awaits arraignment. The charges for Beard, who was 14 at the time of the alleged crime, are unavailable because he’s a juvenile.”
(from CNN. I’d post the link but I think it is causing my comments to be gobbled up by the Internetz.)
P.S. to randomliberal:
News reports indicate:
“On December 4, about three months after the nooses were discovered, six teens, dubbed the Jena 6, were accused of beating classmate Justin Barker. The six — Mychal Bell, Robert Bailey Jr., Carwin Jones, Bryant Purvis, Theo Shaw and Jesse Ray Beard — were originally charged with attempted second-degree murder and conspiracy, according to LaSalle Parish District Attorney Reed Walters.
“Bell, the only one of the six who remains in jail, was to be sentenced Thursday after convictions for aggravated second-degree battery and conspiracy to do the same, but both charges have been vacated, awaiting further action by the district attorney.
“Charges for Bailey, Jones and Shaw also were reduced to battery and conspiracy when they were arraigned, while Purvis still awaits arraignment. The charges for Beard, who was 14 at the time of the alleged crime, are unavailable because he’s a juvenile.”
(from CNN. I’d post the link but I think it is causing my comments to be gobbled up by the Internetz.)
P.S. to randomliberal:
News reports indicate:
“On December 4, about three months after the nooses were discovered, six teens, dubbed the Jena 6, were accused of beating classmate Justin Barker. The six — Mychal Bell, Robert Bailey Jr., Carwin Jones, Bryant Purvis, Theo Shaw and Jesse Ray Beard — were originally charged with attempted second-degree murder and conspiracy, according to LaSalle Parish District Attorney Reed Walters.
“Bell, the only one of the six who remains in jail, was to be sentenced Thursday after convictions for aggravated second-degree battery and conspiracy to do the same, but both charges have been vacated, awaiting further action by the district attorney.
“Charges for Bailey, Jones and Shaw also were reduced to battery and conspiracy when they were arraigned, while Purvis still awaits arraignment. The charges for Beard, who was 14 at the time of the alleged crime, are unavailable because he’s a juvenile.”
(from CNN. I’d post the link but I think it is causing my comments to be gobbled up by the Internetz.)
Does anyone here really think the Jena 6 should be “freed?”
I think they should get the same punishment that the white kids got, which means freeing them since the white kids who did much more serious things got zero punishment. Unless you think that a sneaker is a much deadlier weapon than a shotgun?
If the way you want to work it is to dismiss the charges, charge the white kids, and then reinstate the charges, that’s fine with me, but there’s no reason for one group of kids to walk around with criminal charges on their record when the kids that actually started the problem get off scott-free. That would be — oh, what’s the word? — pretty blatantly racist.
P.S. to randomliberal:
News reports indicate:
“On December 4, about three months after the nooses were discovered, six teens, dubbed the Jena 6, were accused of beating classmate Justin Barker. The six — Mychal Bell, Robert Bailey Jr., Carwin Jones, Bryant Purvis, Theo Shaw and Jesse Ray Beard — were originally charged with attempted second-degree murder and conspiracy, according to LaSalle Parish District Attorney Reed Walters.
“Bell, the only one of the six who remains in jail, was to be sentenced Thursday after convictions for aggravated second-degree battery and conspiracy to do the same, but both charges have been vacated, awaiting further action by the district attorney.
“Charges for Bailey, Jones and Shaw also were reduced to battery and conspiracy when they were arraigned, while Purvis still awaits arraignment. The charges for Beard, who was 14 at the time of the alleged crime, are unavailable because he’s a juvenile.”
(from CNN. I’d post the link but I think it is causing my comments to be gobbled up by the Internetz.)
Sounds like Nifong to me.
Hey, if the same thing happens to this DA that happened to Nifong — disbarment and criminal charges — I’ll be pretty damn happy. Once the whole story came out, you’d be hard-pressed to find anyone in the liberal or feminist blogosphere who defended Nifong’s actions.
Nikkos, are you our guest professor today?
“Please explain why”. Like it’s a term paper we all have to submit to YOU.
How about instead of asking everyone here to spoonfeed you, you READ THE LINKS. EDUCATE YOURSELF. STOP ASKING PEOPLE TO DO IT FOR YOU. If you feel the links aren’t enough, do a Google search. Check out CNN or whatever flavor channel/webcast you like. MSNBC was giving live video feed awhile ago.
You’ve been asking others to explain themselves for hours. Knock it off and do your own homework.
randomliberal:
News reports indicate:
“On December 4, about three months after the nooses were discovered, six teens, dubbed the Jena 6, were accused of beating classmate Justin Barker. The six — Mychal Bell, Robert Bailey Jr., Carwin Jones, Bryant Purvis, Theo Shaw and Jesse Ray Beard — were originally charged with attempted second-degree murder and conspiracy, according to LaSalle Parish District Attorney Reed Walters.
“Bell, the only one of the six who remains in jail, was to be sentenced Thursday after convictions for aggravated second-degree battery and conspiracy to do the same, but both charges have been vacated, awaiting further action by the district attorney.
“Charges for Bailey, Jones and Shaw also were reduced to battery and conspiracy when they were arraigned, while Purvis still awaits arraignment. The charges for Beard, who was 14 at the time of the alleged crime, are unavailable because he’s a juvenile.”
(from CNN. I’d post the link but I think it is causing my comments to be gobbled up by the Internetz.)
Louise-
I asked once for more background, received it, was thankful for it, and have moved on.
Simply asking others to provide support for the POV is not the same as asking them to do my “homework” for me.
I’m sorry if my style of discussion is an irritant to you. It was certainly not my intent. Just trying to join the discussion and share my POV.
Mnemosyne-
Thanks for your reply. I think we share the same goal- justice- but differ on tactics.
randomliberal:
News reports indicate:
“On December 4, about three months after the nooses were discovered, six teens, dubbed the Jena 6, were accused of beating classmate Justin Barker. The six — Mychal Bell, Robert Bailey Jr., Carwin Jones, Bryant Purvis, Theo Shaw and Jesse Ray Beard — were originally charged with attempted second-degree murder and conspiracy, according to LaSalle Parish District Attorney Reed Walters.
“Bell, the only one of the six who remains in jail, was to be sentenced Thursday after convictions for aggravated second-degree battery and conspiracy to do the same, but both charges have been vacated, awaiting further action by the district attorney.
“Charges for Bailey, Jones and Shaw also were reduced to battery and conspiracy when they were arraigned, while Purvis still awaits arraignment. The charges for Beard, who was 14 at the time of the alleged crime, are unavailable because he’s a juvenile.”
(from CNN. I’d post the link but I think it is causing my comments to be gobbled up by the Internetz.)
randomliberal: this article discusses the reduced charges: http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/09/20/jena.six/index.html
On topic, or bunnies. I realize that racists can barely contain themselves from dwelling over the thinnest evidence to support their paranoid and erroneous contention that the white man can’t cut a break, but you take the hate elsewhere. It’s not welcome here.
Sorry for the repeated comment folks.
And please, for the love of god, don’t copy and paste the same comment over 20 times because you were put into moderation. I PROMISE I will get to it. If you keep doing that, the spamulator will probably start zapping you permanently.
Well that’s embarassing…Pam or Pandagon webmaster/mistress, please feel free to delete my redundant, repeated posting of the same comment.
Again, my sincere apologies.
Heh heh. I love Rayman.
Mea culpa on the charges of the other kids being reduced. Should have looked harder.
But my larger point stands. A sneaker is not a deadly weapon, aggravated battery is still way too strong. A simple battery charge (in juvenile court) would have been plenty. After the kids who hung the noose, the kids who participated in the beat down at the party, and the guy who pulled a shotgun had been charged with something or expelled.
Does anyone here really think the Jena 6 should be “freed?”
I do, and here’s why. Had the school board stood behind the principal and expelled the students who hung the nooses, this situation might not have come t this point. If the local DA hadn’t gone to the school and told black students “I can wipe out your lives with the stroke of a pen,” then maybe this wouldn’t have escalated. If the white students who started all this shit had been dealt with appropriately, then probably none of this would have escalated. How much shit do you expect members of a community to eat before they’re allowed to strike back? Their actions have been, if anything, moderate. Freed? They should be given fucking medals for not burning the town down around the racist inhabitants’ ears.
And the shittiest part of it all to my mind, is that none of this is likely to change anything once this story fades away.
Nikkos, Mychal Bell has been in jail for 9 months now and is still there today. That’s longer than he probably would have served if he had been properly charged as a juvenile.
But what you’re worried about is that he hasn’t been punished enough yet, and that we need to round up more kids for more punishment?
Sadly, it never had to get this far — teenagers are going to be impulsive and stupid. It’s to be expected. The real problem here is that the white adults in the town supported the white kids’ actions instead of suspending them as the principal recommended and nipping the problem in the bud.
In some ways, I don’t blame the kids on either side. Teenagers are stupid and hotheaded and make mistakes. What we really need is for some justice to come down on the supposed “adults” who picked sides and made sure their own “side” didn’t face any consequences for their actions.
So I guess that’s the real difference here between you and me. I think the people who perpetuated the problem — the district attorney and the other town elders — are the ones who needs to face some consequences, not for any more of the kids to be punished, white or black. Without the inaction and neglect and favoritism by the adults, we never would have gotten to this point and that white kid probably wouldn’t have been beaten up in the first place.
Being moderated makes me sad.
I agree, Incertus- released and all charges dropped. Or in the case of Michael, “time served”. Then a complete investigation of the processes that the school board and DA were following by the state prosecutor to look for wrong-doing. (with the understanding that I am NOT an attorney or fluent in the language/laws involved)
I nearly cried when I saw his mother walking arm-in-arm with Rev. Sharpton and she told a reported she had been talking with her son, still in jail, a few minutes before. As a mom, I can’t imagine how she has slept since this nightmare began.
I would initially make an observation that I get most of my news from the progressive blogosphere and I’ve been aware of this case for months, so its not like its been ignored. That said, I am surprised it hasn’t gotten more play at some of the big blogs because it really is a shocking case and I thought an easy one to understand. Yes, the “heroes” assaulted someone, but the double standard and overt racism are so distinct. I was really shocked. The story sounds like something out of the pre-desegregation time. It reminds me of the story about the Turner County High School’s first integrated prom this spring. There is clearly a level of complacency that has allowed a lot of us to just assume this kind of direct, community racism just doesn’t happen anymore. We know racism exist, but we have fooled ourselves into thinking its been driven into the shadows. Still, the flip side of this problem is that stories like this are shocking and should generate attention.
I don’t know why it hasn’t. While each time I saw a story about it, I asked myself, “why isn’t this getting more attention?” I also didn’t think enough about it myself between those times. Given that the sites mentioned largely focus on political issues, I can see why this story feel through the cracks. I might suggest that the best remedy is raising the profile of bloggers who do tackle these issues. Easier said than done, but the “blogosphere” is a community and it excels when no one blogger is expected to serve everything but when the community address the issue. If the community of elite bloggers isn’t serving a need, expand the community of elite bloggers. If Josh Marshall feels ill equipped to address an issue, link to a good blogger who is. Bring in someone to address these issues at a community site and expose the blog’s audience to these concerns and hope that this will increase awareness in general and that these issues will have more relevance in the minds of readers and writers alike.
was spreading this story around to everyone I know weeks ago and complaining about how the mainstream news wasn’t covering it.. and now.. I’ve spent the whole day being infuriated by MSM coverage, where they leave out crucial details in the interest of pretending there are two equally justified sides to the story. I’m sorry, there’s not. The media presents the story now as if it started at the tree and went straight to the beating, and this paints a woefully inaccurate picture of the situation.
You have de-facto segregation in place that students at this school tried to challenge. They were met with an explicit threat - nooses in the context of segregation are not a “prank”, they are a threat and a reminder of how white america used to deal with black people who didn’t know their place. When the students didn’t immediately quiet down and go back to the way things were, staging a protest, the DA came in and threatened them personally - not the white students who were making threats, but the black students, for not shutting up about the whole thing.
“I can end your lives with a pen.” Another threat, from the district attourney to a bunch of underaged students. Then followed weeks of conflicts. There was not just one fight, but many fights, and white students attacked and beat black students without facing any consequences. A *graduate* of the school came back specifically to threaten black students with a shotgun. The police arrested the black students for wrestling the shotgun away from the white guy without charging the white guy with anything. The message continues to be: shut up and go away, or YOU will face consequences, not us. THEN the fight occurred for which arrests actually took place. The arrests are probably not even of the right students, but as far as the town is concerned, the problem was solved when you put some of the black students in jail. Because to them, the problem is the black students challenging the status quo. The physical fights are incidental; the student they’re pressing charges over wasn’t seriously injured. Listen to the comments by people in town and it’s plain as day. It doesn’t matter if they got the students actually involved with the fight, they got the students who were kicking up a fuss, and “they got what they deserved.” Uh huh. This is all sending a message, and it’s all pretty goddamned familiar.
I think this would be a lot more credible if it wasn’t under a banner reading “free the Jena 6.” Sorry, I don’t think people who assault others should be freed.
Is there racial bias going on in how different offenders are treated? You bet.
My personal reason for not writing about this, aside from not having had much to add that others haven’t already said, is that I think the events today are pretty manipulative. Everyone will swoop down on Jena, make speeches, and then go home, and people in this small town will be left trying to figure out how to live together in light of all that’s happened. Given that the town clearly had a challenging situation to start with, I think that’s pretty tragic. Their fate now is to be a demonstration prop.
I can’t go with charges dropped, sorry. I completely agree that if the school board and the DA had handled this properly from the beginning, things probably never would have gotten to this point. But they did, and when they did, those six young men had every opportunity to walk away, and they made the choice to attack him. No matter how provoked they were to attack, and under what circumstances, beating that student down was the wrong thing to do, and it was a crime and should be treated as such.
Justice is only served when all of the crimes are addressed, though, and fairly. In my opinion, it’s justice when the Jena 6 are brought up on simple battery and given probation, like the white guy who attacked Robert Bailey, when the three kids who hung the nooses are charged with a hate crime, when the charges against Bailey for stealing a weapon are dropped (unless they’ve been addressed already) and his record cleared for that, the school board has been reprimanded for not standing behind the principal, and the DA has been fired and disbarred. That sounds just.
Oh, right, and the guy who pulled the gun on Robert Bailey in the first place charged with assault. Thanks, lizvelrene, I almost forgot that one.
ACG, your comment makes a lot of sense.
I’m sorry ACG, but we’re beyond that now. You can’t unshit the bed in this case–all you can do is move forward, and moving forward means the Jena 6 walk, no charges, no nothing. We can talk till we’re blue int he face about what should happen to everyone involved, but lets face reality, shall we? Nothing is going to happen to those white kids, if indeed anything could be done at this point. So the only other option is for the Jena 6 to walk–otherwise, great injustice is done here.
Attempted murder with a fucking sneaker? When the victim was so badly hurt he was able to attend a school function the same fucking day? And then in jail, charged as an adult for months?
Oh PLEASE. Of COURSE the whole thing should be dismissed! At least Rev. Sharpton has his head on straight and is taking this to Congress with Maxine Waters and others.
Reverse the colors- would a WHITE kid (or six) have been put through this much for beating up a BLACK kid? If a BLACK graduate came back to the school with a shotgun, would he NOT have faced multiple charges???
They need to level the playing field and get the laws/ charges the same for EVERYONE, regardless of race. Only THEN can the issues of “what is an appropriate charge for the crime” be addressed and worked on.
I completely agree that restitution needs to be made to these guys for all they’ve been through, but I can’t agree that subverting the justice system is the way to do it. The only way the justice system can function is when it’s used according to the directions on the package; as we’ve just seen, using it other than as directed, for personal vendettas and unjust reasons, only fucks things up really, really badly. The chaos that would arise from letting those guys off without charges would pretty much set the state on fire and only make things worse.
The only way to fix it would be show that justice can be used properly by charging the white kids for their crimes, and then suing the county, the DA, and the school board civilly for unlawful imprisonment, negligence, and anything else you can throw at them. The place to try and make restitution to the Jena 6 is in the civil court; the criminal side has already been abused practically beyond recognition.
y’kno, until i read this post i hadn’t even noticed that the only posts i had read on this case had been on blogs run by POC or a handful of feminists. guess my white privilege is flaring up. and the MSM coverage has been, per usual, awful.
its absurdly funny too, becos the disproportionate amount of black men who are incarcerated in this country unjustly (which this to me is a symbol of the excess to an extreme) isnt simply a racial issue, it is quite blatantly a feminist issue, if we werent so effing busy incarcerating all the black men then so many black women wouldnt have to struggle as single mothers. and of course as the HRC speaker pointed out, social justice is something that we should be able to rally around for all marginalized peoples, as racism, sexism, homophobia and anti-semitism tend to travel together.
and finally and then ill shut up, the amount of willfull ignorance in the comments on this post from a few people pretty much turned my stomach. between the jena 6 stuff and the bullshit in aurora, IL with the planned parenthood i want to go hide under my covers forever, society sure is ugly.
I think that “Free the Jena 6″ is not such a great slogan because this whole thing isn’t about letting their alleged crimes go unpunished. It’s about the police state we’re all living in that comes down especially hard on young men of color. That said, the most appropriate outcome with regard to their cases is most certainly something like a suspended sentence. When the system shits on you like it did on the Jena 6 (and the whole black community in Jena), you really ought to get a substantial reprieve even if that isn’t what you would deserve in an otherwise utopian system.
The police state issue is why the prog blogs should be narrowing in on this issue. Clearly, the black radio shows and bloggers like our wonderful Pam recognize this issue as a focal point of outrage about many issues. All this bickering about whether this is the right issue since we all agree assaults are bad things is just plain distracting. If this isn’t the issue to get a 21st civil rights movement moving, then what is? Should we wait until a pure-of-heart virginal light-skinned African-American maiden is beaten to death by a mob of rednecks? Or do we start demanding justice without regard to all our other fears and hangs ups?
Addressing sexism/racism/heterosexism isn’t about feeling good on MLK Day and hating on the GOP and whatnot. It’s a struggle to admit that you are not guilty for being raised in a patriarchal-white supremicist-heteronormative world and then own up to your own responsibility for ridding yourself of all those claims to power. I think the prog-blogs are faliling to do this with regard to the J6. And everytime a Kossack says “are you calling me racist because I don’t blog what you tell me to?” its a dead give-away they’re feeling the guilt and can’t see through the fog.
I’m sick of the Kossacks. Much love to Pam.
NB To Amanda: For the love of Discoball, please extend the allowed typing time before we have to refresh and get a new anti-spam number.
You know what’s wierd?
I live in Atlanta. A couple of weeks ago in nice suburban Cobb County, I was *very* relunctancly served by a matronly woman at a bagel place, after she looked for someone else to skip ahead and get served by her. Nobody did, so I made my order, which she was queroulous about filling (insisting that a bagel selection wasn’t there, when it was), and I got out.
It still happens plenty enough. Plenty of white people don’t play that game, but just enough are around to fill in the greys of the clouds.
And this is in the relatively civilized part of the South. The areas north of atlanta isn’t too bad, but it can be dangerous to be black in white areas outside of the urban areas of Georgia south of Atlanta.
The whole thing with the Jena Six? It makes me really appreciate Jackie Robinson’s composure, and makes me despise the circumstances that demanded such composure.
No one should have to eat so much shit…
This is an old saw used to avoid discussing race — it’s uncomfortable for white folks and they want to avoid land mines. the easiest way to do that is to say nothing at all, which still speaks volumes.
So what’s wrong with that? Racial politics are nearly incomprehensible to privileged white people like myself for whom its an issue that can only be approached with a great deal of intense study.
Between the choice of saying something unintentionally tone-deaf and saying nothing at all, why should it be noteworthy when white people choose the latter? We’ve been told for decades by the black progressive community that “you can’t speak for us”; any surprise that we’ve taken that to heart?
A two sentence note - “hey, look at this; the whole situation sucks” - would seem to be all that a white person could safely say on the issue. What are they doing to do? Segue the Jena 6 situation into their own experiences with racism? Oh, wait.
To the extent that the Jena 6 situation is relevant to race-relations on a larger scale, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for any prominent white blogger to hand the coverage over to people with the expertise not to look like idiots on this. Am I wrong?
My progressive blogreading is as follows”
Pandagon
Creek Running North
Sheakespeare’s Sister
Feministing
Feministe
IBTP
Blondesense
Feline Formal Shorts
Angry Black Bitch
Therefore, I got the MISTAKEN IMPRESSION that the Progressive Blogosphere is ALL OVER THIS STORY from DAY ONE.
SO, I would just like to put in my 2¢ that the FEMINIST blogosphere is where you should be getting your news, people. Why do you guys even bother to read “The Dudes”?
My personal reason for not writing about this, aside from not having had much to add that others haven’t already said, is that I think the events today are pretty manipulative. Everyone will swoop down on Jena, make speeches, and then go home, and people in this small town will be left trying to figure out how to live together in light of all that’s happened.
Ah, yes — if only Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson hadn’t shown up, the whole thing would have been peacefully resolved and the black and white citizens would be walking down the street hand-in-hand singing “Kumbaya.”
When you have white ministers saying that hanging nooses is “no big deal”, you’ve got a bigger problem than Jackson and Sharpton, and it ain’t with the black folks.
ok actually im a liar cos i remembered one more thing i meant to say where you brought up the white student getting tased and the coverage it recieved vs the young black man getting tased and beaten, i remember when i saw the thing about the white student on the news and how it was on over and over i couldnt believe that that was huge news but Rev Lennox Yearwood being tackled and having his leg broken in a government building no less recieved so far as i saw NO mainstream coverage.
Screw “safe” or “oh, gee; that’s too bad”. I’m white and an adult- I have no problem with putting my foot in my mouth. After 42 years, I’ve had a fair amount of practice.
I would FAR rather accidentally mess up with my phrasing or idea processing and be corrected, than take the politically correct approach of silence or murmuring. The “safe” approach is disengenuous and false.
Because white people just sitting back and WATCHING these horrible injustices occur are, by their lack of participation, allowing the problems to GROW. AND SPREAD. AGAIN. I can’t imagine how disheartening Jena is for the folks who marched decades ago.
shah8, I’m so sorry that crap like that is still happening.
I read Pam’s post, and I agreed that there was far too much silence on this.
Things like this shouldn’t happen in America, but they still do, and with surprising frequency. We have to talk about these issues, we have to condemn this type of behavior when it happens, we have to stand up against bigotry, otherwise it will keep happening over and over.
I find it telling that the Senate passed a bill condemning MoveOn.org for their Petraeus ad, yet they have done nothing on this issue. What are we fighting for if we still live in an America where things like this can happen?
You can read what I wrote here: http://democrashield.wordpress.com/2007/09/20/jena-louisiana/
It’s nothing spectacular, but maybe it will spur all 15 of my regular readers to take action.
Keep up the great work Pam & Pandagon.
I’m for the slogan. Free the Jena 6 seems sensible. It seems sensible to stop using jail as a solution to social problems, it seems sensible to not jail high school kids for brawls that they would never have been jailed for a decade ago, and that they won’t be jailed for if they are white, it seems sensible to bring juveniles up to juvenile court and make them do juvenile community service penalties if they are truly to be penalized, and it seems sensible to investigate Jena’s powers that be and ask why nooses could be hung from a ‘white’s only’ tree and produce zero response.
Usually, when a small white southern town goes on a pogram, they use the drug excuse - as happened in Tulia, Texas, and - with less publicity - in Edna, Texas. I guess the renewed Red State boldness under Bush - that there are no more limits to bigotry - pressed forward the idea that you can just jail blacks for anything. Let’s hope this does become the cause of the week, even if it is hooked up to the tired OJ publicity wagon.
“We’ve been told for decades by the black progressive community that “you can’t speak for us”; any surprise that we’ve taken that to heart?”
Oh right: it’s because the “black progressive community” is just so mean to all the poor little white lefties. That’s the real problem, and it’s a perfectly good excuse for copping out on the topic of racism.
Give me a break. Whites can’t speak for other communities but we sure as fuck CAN and ARE MORALLY OBLIGED TO speak up about racism within our own ranks. The fact that so many of us think that it’s just not our problem is what’s keeping all of this brutal shit going.
Stand up and take some responsiblity for a change. I mean, for god’s sake, we’re talking about voicing opinions in freaking blogs. Most of us commenters don’t even go by our real names, so there’s not even any need to be particularly courageous.
So is it just me, or has this story totally blown up in the MSM today? It was the first story on both the national and local NBC news in my area, and I saw a teaser for a story on it on the PBS Newshour. I wonder if progressive bloggers will have to deal with it now that it’s a big, mainstream story.
I second Crys TM. If your top prioritities are avoiding criticism, minimizing conflict and preventing your feelings from being hurt, then by all means avoid discussion of race and racism.
On the other hand, if bringing issues to your readers that they should know about is most important, then do tackle the tough ones. It’ll be uncomfortable, but you won’t die. I promise.
Amen, Crys T.
What was amazing to me about reading this thread is how many people are willing to serve as apologists for America’s racist criminal “justice” system. At every level of the system there is a penaly for not being white! The first step is acknowledging that and figuring out how to fix it, not throwing up our hands and saying “oh well.”
White folks, we need to get the fuck over ourselves.
I’m sitting here speechless at the lengths to which people are willing to go to avoid dealing with both institutional racism in American society and their own personal race issues.
Unless, of course, the people insisting that the charges shouldn’t be dropped really do believe that 17- and 18-year old kids should go to jail (where they will almost certainly become another prison rape statistic) for beating up another kid their age who yes, did have to go to the hospital–but who was well enough to go to a party that same night.
A two sentence note - “hey, look at this; the whole situation sucks” - would seem to be all that a white person could safely say on the issue. What are they doing to do? Segue the Jena 6 situation into their own experiences with racism? Oh, wait.
Gee. I’m a white male, which makes me a part of the most privileged segment of the US, unless you subdivide them by income, and I managed to find a few sentences to write on the subject. Wonder how I managed that?
What’s troubling me is how the incomplete reporting of this incident is affecting how people view the situation.
Take this account from WRAL in Durham and the ensuing comments.
http://www.wral.com/news/national_world/national/story/1839070/
Take this account from WRAL in Durham and the ensuing comments.
I loved the clueless guy who said, “I’m white and I wish I could play the race card when I have a bad day.”
Dude, you’re walking around every day with that card on your chest and you don’t even realize it.
Liberal white bloggers have been missing in action on Jena 6. Period. End of story.
An update that I just added up top:
[Laughable update (8PM): Instapundit links to this post, saying “It was hard to get a clear narrative that made sense of what was going on.” He also cites Orin Kerr at The Volokh Conspiracy, who has this excuse for the lack of upper-tier blogging about today’s events:
I’d really like to blog about the case, and I spent about 30 minutes this morning trying to research it, but I couldn’t get a good enough sense of what the facts are or what the precise cause of the protest is to really know what to make of it.
Now that’s unbelievable. Are we talking about the same bloggers who were able to follow the intricacies of the Plame case? The Abramoff scandal? The whole WMD/yellowcake fracas? Come on, people. Try again.
]
I decided to tour the nation’s newspaper websites to see if it’s appeared on the virtual “front page” and if so, where.
Papers where it’s prominent (”above the fold”) and has a picture: Washington Post, Baltimore Sun, Chicago Tribune, New Orleans Times-Picayune, Detroit News
Papers where it’s “above the fold” but no picture: Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Kansas City Star
“below the fold” but has a picture: Minneapolis Star-Tribune, St. Louis Post-Dispatch,
Below the fold (you have to scroll down to see it) and no picture: the fucking New York Times.
Nothing at all: Boston Globe
From Darkrose:
“I’m sitting here speechless at the lengths to which people are willing to go to avoid dealing with both institutional racism in American society and their own personal race issues.”
Unknowingly, I faced it head-on at age 15. My father would watch the news every night and more times than not, yelled “Goddamn Nigger!” at the TV, whenever he saw a black person. One night, I asked him why he did that and he had no answer whatsoever, other than to say that “all blacks were niggers” and we had a huge argument over it. It ended wih him yelling that I didn’t know what I was talking about because I was just a kid (my stance being that people should all be equal) and that I would see that he was right when I became an adult and had seen the world a bit.
I have very little relationship with the man now.
Gah, didn’t get through even half the papers before clicking the button. I’ve spent enough time with it to see that coverage is weirdly uneven.
There was zip from Philadelphia Inquirer, and I know there are POC in Philadelphia. I’ve seen them myself. Why would there be more coverage in the Denver Post, or even in the Salt Lake City Tribune? I can’t figure that one out.
Just read the link to Orin Kerr (8pm update)- unbelieveable cowardice and unwillingness to take any sort of stance. Instead, he blames a lack of information for why he is cautious with his opinions.
What utter horseshit!
Pam, again, THANK YOU FOR YOUR BLOGS TODAY…
And I’ll be dead honest- I really considered using the “n*****” typing for the above story, because I find that one word so horribly ugly and hateful. If that is what I should have done, I do apologize.
But for the sake of extremely uncomfortable discussions of race from my personal white perspective, I felt it better to use the word. I recoiled from the phrase and its message then, and I do now even more so.
I’m still trying to work out in my head a blog posting on how the noose hanging literally involved a terrorist threat. The lack of response to them says a lot about racism and about the hypocrisy in how the war on terrorism is being applied in this society.
I’m getting tangled up in the keeping clear the distinctions between the need to fight terrorism and farcical aspects of what the Bush regime is actually doing.
Also, I’m trying to figure out a decent way to make the following two points at the same time without sounding like I’m contradicting myself or trivializing something I don’t want to.
1) The historical context of nooses hanging from a tree in the South is important.
2) Hanging nooses from a tree would be a death threat under any circumstances, regardless of historical context. The functional purpose of nooses is to kill people.
Any criticisms of the central idea or points that I should include?
This may be my ADD at work, but whenever I read about the Color of Change, I think about another incredible project they are supporting, the Gulf Coast Civil Works project.
www.colorofchange.org/gccw/description.html
Who owns the Boston Globe? The fucking New York Times.
When I was in Dunkin Donuts this morning, it was on CNN, and I actually heard a group of older men (4 white, 1 black) discussing it. Couldn’t get a good hear, and didn’t want to obviously eavesdrop.
Everywhere else I went in the city…nada. No talk, no news, no nothing.
“The consensus story on the shotgun seems to be that a group of black guys were trash talking and baiting a single white guy about a fight that happened earlier at a party. White guy gets scared, runs to his truck, and grabs his shotgun. One of the black guys rushes him, takes the shotgun away, and then goes home with it and keeps it.
That’s theft and battery. ”
No, that’s bad fiction.
ignore it. It’ll be gone soon.
Of course, lt won’t stay away because it’s a a woman-hating racist without values such as courtesy.
If all a White blogger can think to say is, “hey, this looks unfair, and no one seems to be covering it, what’s going on?” then why not say that?
There’s nothing wrong with asking questions if you don’t know what’s happening after your *cough* 30-minute intensive study.
I’m sitting here speechless at the lengths to which people are willing to go to avoid dealing with both institutional racism in American society and their own personal race issues.
It is all very simple: what I lose, you gain. There is no reason for people of privilege to examine anything since that might mean losing something. We can’t have that. Mine mine mine.
Never mind that NOT working for a just society will eventually mean that those with even MORE privilege over you will just take what they want and walk off. Never mind that they already do it all the time, and then distract with fear of other getting theirs. (What? Me exploit you? Look - over there! The Other wants some of yours!)That would take way too much thought and larger perspective.
Ixsnay esmay!
I appreciate your analysis and your candor in recognizing that white progressive blogs were not to be seen on this Jena 6 movement. I’m proud to be part of The AfroSpear (group of Black bloggers) that found a way to let Blog Power fuel the civil rights movement.
Moral of the story? Perhaps it is time for progressive white blogs, who have experience and expertise in this new medium … to more proactively reach out to Black Bloggers. You missed Jena 6. There are many other issues that progressive blogs, both Black and white, can work together on as we move towards the 2008 election cycle.
What say u?
peace, Villager
I appreciate your analysis and your candor in recognizing that white progressive blogs were not to be seen on this Jena 6 movement. I’m proud to be part of The AfroSpear (group of Black bloggers) that found a way to let Blog Power fuel the civil rights movement.
Moral of the story? Perhaps it is time for progressive white blogs, who have experience and expertise in this new medium … to more proactively reach out to Black Bloggers. You missed Jena 6. There are many other issues that progressive blogs, both Black and white, can work together on as we move towards the 2008 election cycle.
What say u?
peace, Villager
Having to deal with the white supremacists who want to stink up your comments when you blog stuff like this is a disincentive, I’ll point out. Which of course is what said white supremacists are trying to achieve, the silencing of bloggers on this. That said, the silencing efforts should be a clue to bloggers about how important this issue is that people want to silence you about it.
Having to deal with the white supremacists who want to stink up your comments when you blog stuff like this is a disincentive.
It may be, but it also points out the necessity.
Last year the right wing rag at Tufts published a “parody” carol “about affirmative action.” It was pure racist nonsense. The debate over the issue demonstrated to me how important it was to deal with the issue. I started it the year previous, but in my work on racial formation, I explicitly include research on affirmative action in higher education. I’m not letting those racist little twerps win.
Reminds me of something Margaret Cho discussed in her State of Emergency tour, when she was booked at a Bush-loving event: “If you don’t like me, I’m goinig to make you hate me.” The harder the racists push, the more my teaching is going to work to debunk their fucked up little attitudes.
I use my privilege as a white man, but I use it to undermine the system that gives me that privilege.
White folks, we can’t be afraid of dealing with race and racism. It saturates our society, and does so in such a way that not being white is penalized. If we’re serious about social change and justice, we’ve got to get over ourselves and our fears of “saying the wrong thing.” We’re gonna fuck up. Unavoidable. So what? Keep doing the work; make it clear why you’re doing the work; learn from your screw-ups and they become less important. Undermine the bullshit. No, it ain’t easy, but the only way society changes is if we intervene in the reproduction of the inhumane and unjust processes within it.
Not willing to do those things? Then you remain part of the problem.
Shit, should have had a blockquote around that first paragraph of Amanda’s words to indicate the rest was my response to her and the thread.
Oh well, probably comes through.
It may be, but it also points out the necessity.
Absolutely. I’m not making excuses so much as pointing out that there’s a concentrated harassment and silencing effort on certain issues. The Duke case is a big one; I have opinions, but the very idea of expressing them and having to deal with the horrible racists out there who feel vindicated because they lucked into a bad prosecutor gives me a headache. Same with this case; when it first came to my attention, I thought, “That’s going to be relentless troll bait.” I had a lot of thoughts about it as a case that really has potential to be a stand-out case of our time after hearing Common mention it at the Austin City Limits Festival, but I won’t lie, I pussed out, too exhausted to cobble together something barn-storming enough to give people energy to fight off trolls. You also see how this sort of non-stop harassment works to reduce abortion access, since a lot of doctors who’d like to perform the service simply can’t because they don’t have the personal resources to deal with the harassment. It just seems like people on the right have an endless reserve of energy to do hateful things to people who speak out. They’re like machines that run on hate or something.
Anyway, have I personally failed to step up? Yes. I admit that. I’m just looking into the whys not to defend myself but in order to suss out what I would need to work on not to fail on this sort of thing in the future. Constructive self-criticism, as it were.
I have learned about the Jena6 story from media reports in the last few days. I admit that I haven’t blogged about it myself. I think Jane Hamsher is being overly defensive. The truth is there are a lot of stories the blogosphere doesn’t cover. I try to write about Florida and Tampa politics because very few people do. If people say I haven’t blogged enough about Jena6 I’ll take it as a valid criticism.
I’m trying people. Believe me.
amanda,
I’m not attacking you, and hope it didn;t come off that way. It’s hard, hard work, and we’ve all got our own stuff.
Pam takes white liberals to task, quite rightly, for not confronting certain black churches on their homophobia. I’m guilty. And the main reason flows from my intense atheism. I am absolutely the wrong person to address such issues, because I’ll simply tell ‘em to get over their fucking fairy tales. Not helpful.
All of us who are interested in justice have our roles to play. All of us need to recognize where our strenghts lay. All of us need to challenge ourselves and others.
Shit, I could probably do more if I started yet another blog of my own. But I hate writing. So, I comment where I can and focus on my teaching.
We’re dealing with multiple interacting systems. How do we each intervene in the reproduction of those systems, and how does our work overlap/align. I’m never going to be much of a writer. So be it. My own personality (social anxieties) makes me a shitty organizer. But lord can I teach. And that’s where I focus. And that’s where I make a difference. It’s a small space, but in conjunction with others doing other work, with coordinatied and uncoordinated, but collective action to change the shit will change come about.
Chet: “Racial politics are nearly incomprehensible to privileged white people like myself for whom its an issue that can only be approached with a great deal of intense study.
Between the choice of saying something unintentionally tone-deaf and saying nothing at all, why should it be noteworthy when white people choose the latter? We’ve been told for decades by the black progressive community that “you can’t speak for us”; any surprise that we’ve taken that to heart?
WRong! Being white does not get you an immediate escape from affecting or being affected by racism in our culture. It is impossible. You live in a culture and a country that was built on and remains standing on the construct of racism. You enjoy privilege given to you without question, without approbation or requirement of earning. You have a history from your forebears to back up your assertion of full personhood while others in this country have served but have no enjoyed and still do not enjoy the same privilege of person hood that you do.
Therefore, indeed racism has affected your life sir.
As a white person you have learned early on through popular media, folklore and popular vernacular that you are on the topside of the social hierarchy defined by skin color.
And when you tell a racist joke, avoid the black neighborhoods or consider news about the struggles of people in the black community not your concern — you enable the system of racism and possibly even actively support it.
White liberals, leftists, activists, radicals and whatever stripe of self proscribed supporters of justice do this everyday, every hour, in front of me and in front of every other white person they know speaks volumes about their true concern with real social justice.
When you nod in agreement or sit silently by when your white friends tell racist jokes, make clearly racist statements or assumptions or just plain ignore race as a social justice issue, you my friend are no progressive, liberal, activist, social justice supporter, freedom fighter.
Nikkos: I don’t understand why it is so difficult for you to grasp that there exists no ‘justice’ as you understand it to exist for you, for those kids of color in Jena. It seems pretty clear to me; throw the black kids away, destroy their future since they have no value anyway. This as the flip side of all the shameless bellyaching and hand wringing about charging the white boys — because they are full persons and have a future. Black folks are just so much garbage. Especially black males.
With such assumptions in full play in such a community, in fact in a huge part of the US, there is no hope for justice for any of the 6. Jena illustrates it clearly yet you refuse to see it. Why?
What gets me is this social injustice occurs in our justice system daily, but only when it reaches sensationalist proportions and there is the possibility that the guilty as charged (dark skinned) might be angelically clean is there any interest.
Although we whites spend plenty of time worrying about our white brothers and sisters getting proper justice before the law, I don’t think we worry equally enough about our black brothers and sisters regularly far worse treatment, or much less bothering to even find out why or how often or when…
Give me a break.
And might I say to hell with the MSM, they’ve been a cabal for white upper middles for years, what’s new?
I should have clarified: I’m not surprised that Paul L. or Glenn Reynolds have a condo on the river in Egypt where white privilege is concerned. What is surprising to me–though gods know it shouldn’t be by now!–is how many so-called “progressives” are moving into the condo next door. “I can’t get behind this because I think they should be punished and I don’t like the ‘Free the Jena 6′ slogan.” “I can’t support anyone who engages in violence.” And of course, there’s always “How dare you accuse me of being racist!” when no one was making those accusations weren’t being made that serves the dual purpose of putting the person of color on the defensive and of derailing the discussion into how hurt the white folks are. Sadly, coffeeandink has deleted her LJ, otherwise I’d link to her brilliant post on “How to Suppress Discussions of Racism”.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’m glad you used the actual word. Calling it “the n-word” robs it of that visceral, punch-to-the-gut feeling that some of us get when we hear it, and makes it easier for people to say, “It’s just a word.”
#51: Sadly, coffeeandink has deleted her LJ, otherwise I’d link to her brilliant post on “How to Suppress Discussions of Racism”.
The post is up in its entirety at Left in SF.
It goes on from there. I thought this nugget down the page was apt:Sorry, I agree wholeheartedly with Pam here, Nikkos’ arguments about semantics notwithstanding.
You don’t have to say, “I HATE all non-white people!” vehemently and repeatedly to be racist. You can desire not to be a racist and unintentionally behave in a racist manner. Ignoring a story THIS important is racist. The entire case is news BECAUSE of racism. It’s inexcusable not to cover the story, and go ahead and go off in a huff because I’m “telling you what to BLOG! and nobody can TELL ME!”
The feminist blogs and blogs written by people of color are writing about this case because this kind of behavior is our LIFE. As women, we see this shit all the time. And people of color live, eat, breathe, and sleep racism — no matter how much we mangnanimous “but I personally LOVE black people” white folks try to convince everyone otherwise.
Sure, white people think racism barely exists. That’s because largely, it has been symbolically annihilated by the mere fact that it’s not written about or talked about.
You’re afraid of pissing off or offending a black person by trying to struggle through a better understanding of racial issues? Tough f***ing s***. Talk, screw up, listen, and learn. And then work for “justice for all.”
I wanted NBC last night and it omitted all mention of the shotgun incident, the preceding events, and when it came time to interview Jena residents, they picked only white people. It was infuriating.
dnA makes a great point with another possible, plausible reason for the silence of the top-tier blogs, which by and large engage in politics as partisan sport, as opposed to activism. Jena6 regardless of its merits as a matter of moral justice, doesn’t provide enough “juice” to rise to the level of blogworthiness, given the trade off of stepping on the race land mine:
Just as there is a fringe group of melanin-deficiency supremicists clogging up blogs, there is a smaller, radical cohort of people who are hellbent on preventing anybody white from discussing racism because, well, anything anybody white does is racist apriori. White people are simply not allowed to discuss anything about racism because they are so ignorant and racist that they just can’t possibly understand. Period.
I’m not saying that said persons are in any way representative of anybody but their own damaged selves, but between them and the Prussian Blue fans it can make for some serious non-discussion anywhere that dares to post anything about an issue, even something as concretely defined as the Jena bullshit. I think that goes double for the Big Blogs - unless you are willing to devote enormous resources to moderating and steering these discussions and weeding out the radioactive outliers on both edges, you think twice about going there.
Fear of nasty comments from a few extremists who think white people have no right to talk about race is not a good reason not to talk about race. Comments from misogynists abound here and on every feminist blog every day, and the blog owners do have a TON of work cleaning up after them. But when you are writing a blog about “controversial” subjects, I imagine you are not expecting polite tea party conversation. Hell, people get into spittle-spewing arguments over Chevy vs. Ford!
When it comes to race, I belive white people have more of a duty to listen, and question, and validate than to explain why THEY’RE not racist and why some black people are mean and hurt their feelings when race is discussed.
And BTW, the Jena demonstrations were the front page above-the-fold story in the WaPo today. And not surprisingly, the story glossed over the events between the nooses’ appearance on the trees and the beating up of the white guy.
Kate you said:
“Nikkos: I don’t understand why it is so difficult for you to grasp that there exists no ‘justice’ as you understand it to exist for you, for those kids of color in Jena. It seems pretty clear to me; throw the black kids away, destroy their future since they have no value anyway. This as the flip side of all the shameless bellyaching and hand wringing about charging the white boys — because they are full persons and have a future. Black folks are just so much garbage. Especially black males.
With such assumptions in full play in such a community, in fact in a huge part of the US, there is no hope for justice for any of the 6. Jena illustrates it clearly yet you refuse to see it. Why?”
Kate, the fact that justice does not exist for these kids is exactly why I suggested that the message should be “equal justice.”
I’m curious as to why you and other commenters seem to think that freeing the Jena 6 is much more realistic outcome than the justice I propose (i.e., charging all those whom have committed a crime with an appropriate and proportionate charge).
tinfoil hattie, you said: “Sorry, I agree wholeheartedly with Pam here, Nikkos’ arguments about semantics notwithstanding.”
I appreciate and understand your point of view, and I wish I could share it. But to me, it’s more than a matter of mere semantics.
If the banners read “Free the Jena 6,” I would not march under it. If the banner read “Equal Justice” I would. I don’t think they should be freed; but I do think they deserve to see justice served.
Since Pam was asking why more bloggers aren’t marching, figuratively speaking, I thought I would share my motivation. Words, and their meaning, matter to me. I don’t support causes I don’t believe in. That’s it for me in a nutshell, and I would wager that for others this is also true. They aren’t blogging because they don’t agree.
Thank you both for your thoughtful replies.
Nikkos, here’s a thought that might get you marching under the “Free Jena 6″ banner: The man who attacked Robert Bailey is free. He broke a beer bottle over Robert Bailey’s head, was charged with simple battery, and got off with probation. In a just world, the Jena 6, who committed a crime no harsher than that, would face charges no harsher than that, get a penalty no harsher than that, and be just as free as he is.
ACG:
Agreed. Thus my repeated cries for “Equal Justice.” In fact, the charges of attempted murder have been dropped to battery. If a judge decides that they should go free (with or without probation) based on the evidence, I support that wholeheartedly.
What I do not support is calling for the freedom of young men that attacked another person. I’m sorry, they committed an act of violence and must answer for it, as should the white people who also committed acts of violence. But letting the Jena 6 go free before their case is heard and adjudicated is not justice, in my humble opinion.
The main reason I don’t comment on the racial threads, often, is I get depressed, horrified, and tongue-tied by them. I grew up in an atmosphere of mild but pervasive sexism and pretty open hostility toward gays. I disagree with those points of view, but I’m used to them. I was used to the idea that “we” are not racist, should not be racist, and that racism was a thing of ignorance and a disgrace to those who held racist views.
The fact that this is NOT the actual belief of virtually everyone, that racism seems in fact,t o be gaining momentum, really upsets me.
When you nod in agreement or sit silently by when your white friends tell racist jokes
I don’t, incidentally; and I don’t consider the Jena 6 issue beneath my notice because it’s happening to black people.
I’m interested in the issue. I’m just not particularly interested in what white people have to say about it, because what could they possibly know? Sure, racism has affected my life, generally for the better; that’s the nature of privilege. I get that.
But another aspect of privilege is that it’s invisible. Sure, I’ve read enough articles to get an idea of what the privileges are - but none of them were written by white people.
It would be like listening to Paris Hilton talk about the poor. What could she possibly know about it? I salute the people, like Atrios and Kos, who know better than to consider their own perspectives at all meaningful on this issue. And I salute the people like Pam who have done so much to keep people like me informed on the issue.
I find it interesting that there is so much handwringing over the phrase “free the Jena Six.” I’ve been following this case for months now and the phrases “free the Jena Six” and “justice for the Jena Six” have been used interchangeably from the beginning. I’ve yet to see anyone argue that the Jena Six shouldn’t have been punished for beating the kid up. What I have seen people argue is that the Jena Six found themselves caught up in the worst case scenario of institutionalized racism. They are not, and never have been free because they live in an unjust society–a society that disproportionately over-prosecutes blacks over whites for similar crimes. Freedom has been the goal of the Civil Rights movement from the beginning. The phrase is a reflection of how many black folks fell. WE ARE NOT FREE. And the case of the Jena Six reflects that.
And let’s not kid ourselves here, if all of the banners read “Justice for the Jena Six” instead, people would still find another way to rationalize their inactivity on this issue.
Okay, here’s the history of this case as I’ve read it:
A young black man asks to sit under a tree that was unoffically a “whites only” spot. The assistant pricipal says he can sit wherever he wants. He does. The next day three nooses are hung from this tree. The perps are given 3 days suspension.
In the tension that follows this incident, a young black man is beaten by a group of white racists thugs. They are charged with simple assault and given probation.
Another young black man is threatened with a gun when he attempts to enter a party. A struggle ensues and he gets the gun out of the white thug’s hand. The young black man is charged with stealing a firearm!
Finally, the big incident where a young white man was beaten happens. He is well enough to attend a party later that evening. They are initally charged with attempted second degree murder.
And there are a fair number of people on the liberal sites saying that there was no racial injustice here.
What the fuck is wrong with you, you dumb racist assholes?
I keep reading Nikkos as: “I won’t support the fight against injustice because other people are calling it the wrong name.”
The Jena 6 have already been punished for their crime to an extent way beyond the punishment for the white students who committed similar acts. So yes, the Jena 6 should go free. In my view, arguing about the slogan being used at the demonstrations is arguing semantics.
Yes, but Rose, he was beaten with a deadly sneaker. That makes all the difference in the world.
I second your “fucking racist assholes” comment, and I acknowledge that I have been a privileged, fucking racist asshole myself on occasion, no matter how much I wish it weren’t true.
tinfoil hattie:
Thanks for you comments. I think we are going to simply disagree on this issue. I agree that several ugly incidents of racism have transpired. Where I disagree is that I don’t think freeing the young men is justified by those ugly racist incidents, nor do I think to do so is justice.
I think this conversation has reached the point of diminishing returns, particularly if those who do not support this cause 100% are to be labeled as “fucking racist assholes,” as Rose does above. Again, I agree ugly racial incidents occurred, but freeing these men is not the approprriate redress. Does that make me a racist?
nikkos,
in your refusal to recognize that this is not an isolated incident and that the “justice” system in the United States is a tool of white supremacy, and your refusal to recognize that because of these things your “solution” is a non-starter…well, I don’t know if you’re racist, but you’re sure not showing any sign of standing up against it.
The system is fucked, particularly in places like Jena. You quite simply refuse to recognize that that is the reason your approach is inadequate.
Maybe not racist, but ignorant as hell and willing to allow the reproduction of racist systems.
Where I disagree is that I don’t think freeing the young men is justified by those ugly racist incidents, nor do I think to do so is justice.
Nikkos, Mychal Bell has been in jail for nine months for assaulting another kid with a deadly sneaker. While you’re sitting in front of your computer complaining that he hasn’t been punished enough, a 17-year-old boy is sitting in jail with adult offenders and has been sitting there for close to a year even though his convictions have been thrown out by the court.
How much longer does he need to stay there before you feel he’s paid for his horrible crime and we are allowed to call for him to be freed? Should he be there another year? Two years? Five years? Ten years? Should he serve the full 22 years of his original conviction for attacking a kid who was released from the emergency room and went to a party the same day he was attacked?
What penalty does Mychal Bell need to pay before you’re willing to say he should be freed?
Nikkos:
What cause do you not support? The cause of wrongfully imprisoned teenagers? The cause of the goddamn racism that pervades every single aspect of our society, made all the worse because we act as if it doesn’t exist? Or simply the cause of “they shouldn’t be freed because they did a bad thing, and they haven’t been in jail long enoug or been denied due process long enough to suit my view of how they should be punished”?
Sorry for the sarcasm, but let’s remember that the District Attorney threatened these kids before they did ANYTHING illegal. He was itching to toss them in jail and throw away the key.
In my view, they have been punished enough. So they should be freed.
Are you a racist? Dunno, but that’s clever baiting. For all I know, you could be my next-door neighbor, whom I don’t believe is racist.
In my view, and this is my biased opinion based on nothing more than your responses here, I think you are afraid to really dig into the ugliness of racism, and that’s why you’re holding the line at “they should not be freed, because that would be against our system of justice.”
Justice for whom?
Nikkos:
What cause do you not support? The cause of wrongfully imprisoned teenagers? The cause of the goddamn racism that pervades every single aspect of our society, made all the worse because we act as if it doesn’t exist? Or simply the cause of “they shouldn’t be freed because they did a bad thing, and they haven’t been in jail long enoug or been denied due process long enough to suit my view of how they should be punished”?
Sorry for the sarcasm, but let’s remember that the District Attorney threatened these kids before they did ANYTHING illegal. He was itching to toss them in jail and throw away the key.
In my view, they have been punished enough. So they should be freed.
Are you a racist? Dunno, but that’s clever baiting. For all I know, you could be my next-door neighbor, whom I don’t believe is racist.
In my view, and this is my biased opinion based on nothing more than your responses here, I think you are afraid to really dig into the ugliness of racism, and that’s why you’re holding the line at “they should not be freed, because that would be against our system of justice.”
Justice for whom?
mnemosyne:
I’m not saying and I never said that “he hasn’t been punished enough.” In fact, I think I have been quite clear in applauding the reduction of charges and arguing for equal justice in this case.
Clearly, we differ on how best to resolve this matter. I doubt I am going to persuade you, nor are you likely to persuade me, particularly when you misrepresent my statements.
I think this comment was eaten, but if it wasn’t and this turns out to be a double-post, I apologize.
Nikkos:
What cause do you not support? The cause of wrongfully imprisoned teenagers? The cause of the goddamn racism that pervades every single aspect of our society, made all the worse because we act as if it doesn’t exist? Or simply the cause of “they shouldn’t be freed because they did a bad thing, and they haven’t been in jail long enoug or been denied due process long enough to suit my view of how they should be punished”?
Sorry for the sarcasm, but let’s remember that the District Attorney threatened these kids before they did ANYTHING illegal. He was itching to toss them in jail and throw away the key.
In my view, they have been punished enough. So they should be freed.
Are you a racist? Dunno, but that’s clever baiting. For all I know, you could be my next-door neighbor, whom I don’t believe is racist.
In my view, and this is my biased opinion based on nothing more than your responses here, I think you are afraid to really dig into the ugliness of racism, and that’s why you’re holding the line at “they should not be freed, because that would be against our system of justice.”
Justice for whom?
MAJeff, the God of Biscuits:
We live in a country steeped in racism, both in our history and in our present. I certainly see this as incident as occurring within that context- a context of hundreds of years of racial injustice. I do believe, however, that our justice system is one of the few edifices in society which can address these deep seated problems, and by end-running the justice system, we weaken it. Piling an injustice on an injustice does not lead us to justice.
Regular readers of my blog would likely say that I have been an outspoken opponent of racism in all its forms. I wouldn’t expect you to know that, nor do I feel the need to present my “bonafides,” as it were, before being able to comment on this issue. I will not, however, sit back and allow myself to be impugned as a racist simply because we disagree on this issue. If you think I am a racist, then have the courage to say so. If not, then kindly shut up.
I didn’t say you were racist, simply that you’re willing to excuse a racist system.
Privileged as hell and not willing to pull your head out of your ass might be a better way of saying it.
“I do believe, however, that our justice system is one of the few edifices in society which can address these deep seated problems…”
I think most of us agree with this statement, in principle, as long as the “justice” system is working correctly and evenly. Clearly in this case it was not.
“…and by end-running the justice system, we weaken it.”
This comes awfully close to the bullshit argument that we cannot criticize the Administration’s conduct of the war because to do so undermines our troops in their Glorious War
OnFor Freedom.When injustices occur, we must speak out about them. We must make it clear that racist and drastically uneven interpretations/applications of the law are not tolerable.
“Piling an injustice on an injustice does not lead us to justice.”
Correct, and this case has already represented one injustice after the next from the very beginning. Recognizing that and shouting “No More!” is what anybody with a conscience should be doing…
FWIW, Obama has, wisely, I think, limited his comments to (surprise) ensuring justice for the accused:
“Today I stand with those who stand for justice in Jena. The thousands of Americans from every race and region who have descended on this small Louisiana town carry forth the legacy of all those who sat at lunch counters and took freedom rides to strike a blow against injustice wherever it may exist. When a noose hangs from a schoolyard tree in the 21st century and young men are treated in a way that is not equal nor just, it is not just an offense to the people of Jena or to the African-American community, it is an offense to the ideals we hold as Americans. I renew my call for the District Attorney to drop the excessive charges filed in this case, and I will continue my decades-long fight against injustice and division as President.”
Pam asked why more progressive bloggers aren’t on this case like stink on shit. Perhaps someone should ask Obama why he isn’t agitating to free the Jena 6. (I suppose it could be argues that his call for the charges to be dropped is equivalent to demanding that the Jena 6 should be freed, but I think tat would be a stretch considering the nature of Obama’s involvement in this issue thus far).
Is Barack “ignorant as hell,” “privileged as hell,” racist or “willing to excuse a racist system,” or what have you? I don’t think so.
The justice system is the source of many of the problems in our society. There is a penalty at every level for not being white, from being stopped, arrested, charged, arraigned, offered a plea, all the way to sentencing and beyond.. The only way the “justice” system will be useful as a tool to fix things is to overhaul the entire goddamned thing.
Amazing how all these ‘voices of reason’ appearing on gender violence and racism threads, with the sole intention of nitpick and minimize reductionism, lack the least bit of SENSE when it comes to multilevel pattern recognition issues.
nikkos,
What bothers me the most about what you’re saying is, whether you intend it this way or not, it sounds like “Well, bad things happened, but the protestors aren’t pushing for the right thing, so I’m just going to let it go because I can’t support it.”
It comes off as an excuse to do nothing. My question for you is–if the only options are to “free the Jena 6″ or to let things go as they stand, do you think it would be better to just let things be? Maybe this is a red herring question, but it feels to me a little like that’s what your response is…
Pam asked why more progressive bloggers aren’t on this case like stink on shit.
Uh, no. Chris Kromm, a white progressive journalist and blogger, did.
I used that post to then take a stab at why A-listers hadn’t blogged about it. As I said upthread, people can choose what they blog about. I was more interested in discussing the why of it all. It was VERY odd that the march was garnering that much MSM coverage, and blog coverage in other spheres, yet it was completely missing from the top tier blogs.
As you can see, even discussing possible reasons for this lack of A-list blogging on Jena6 touches the third rail. There’s a lot of work to be done discussing racially-tinged events of this sort.
Ms Kate, Goddess of Tomato Cultivation:
You seem to be implying I am little more than a troll. I assure you that I sincerely believe what I have written here and do so in good faith, in the spirit of discourse. I am trying to grapple with this issue, just like everyone else here.
tinfoil hattie:
How is asking a simple and direct question of those who seem to be implying I am racist “clever baiting” on my part? Isn’t implying someone is a racist yet declining to simply say so a form of “baiting” unto itself?
Look, I don’t expect anyone here to agree with me, nor do I really expect to persuade anyone. I do expect that would need to actually earn the label of racist before I am tagged with it.
Raine-
A fair question indeed, and a challenging one.
If left with no choice but to throw my lot in with the “Free the Jena 6″ camp vs. joining those who would rather “just let things be,” I would absolutely and without hesitation join the Jena 6 camp. However, we do have a choice, and my choice is to argue for equal justice for the Jena 6, not freedom.
Pam, you quote me: “Pam asked why more progressive bloggers aren’t on this case like stink on shit.”
Then you say: “I used that post to then take a stab at why A-listers hadn’t blogged about it.”
What’s the difference?
Pam, what do you make of Barack’s statement?
Chet:
But the problem here is that people generally don’t learn just by listening. We learn by interacting, rephrasing to each other what we thought was said, asking questions, making inferences. And this involves showing our weaknesses and making mistakes.
It can be hard as liberals and leftists and progressives to talk about something where we aren’t the ones in the one-down position in terms of power, and the one-up position morally.
It can be hard to say, “tell me what is going on” rather than “you idiots can’t you see what’s going on.” We are in danger of showing our ignorance even with our questions, and we know how withering the scorn can be for ignorance, having dished it out ourselves.
I’m not saying every blog and every encounter has to be a teaching one, or that we need to have infinite patience with sophists and apologists. There’s a lot of value in entertaining the troops with sarcasm and venting on deserving subjects without pity.
But I can’t help feeling that an earnest dialogue with room for error on both sides, on this issue, is worth pursuing. I don’t blame POC who don’t have the patience for not participating, but there are some others who will engage.
Be brave and find a place to talk about it, on line, with friends, at the cafe, whatever.
Thank you, nikkos. I think I understand you better now, though I disagree and think you’re misguided.
I have another question for you, and this is asked out of complete ignorance–is it legally possibly to go back and press increased charges against the white participants in the previous fights (I’m assuming that is part of what equal justice would mean)?
If it is possibly, who is going to bring those charges? Do you trust the DA to follow through? Is it legally possibly to bring someone else in to do it?
I’m just wondering what the practicalities of your call for equal justice would look like, working within the legal system.
That Finally Feminism 101 blog has proven very useful. Perhaps some kind soul will come up with a Finally Racism 101 blog. At any rate it would unclog some of the comment threads which tend to get backed up with disputes over extremely basic concepts, as opposed to the specific issues under discussion. At the very least, the wilfully ignorant can be weeded out faster. If you tell ‘em to go read the 101 FAQ and then come back, and they continue to be ignorant, you know they’re not just slow, they’re actively refusing to be educated.
But it’s a lot of work, in a fairly thankless cause…
Raine-
Thanks for your comments. Personally, I’m happy to settle for the label “misguided” vs. “racist.”
You asked:
“I have another question for you, and this is asked out of complete ignorance–is it legally possibly to go back and press increased charges against the white participants in the previous fights (I’m assuming that is part of what equal justice would mean)?”
Since these incidents occurred within the last year or so, I think the statute of limitations is still “alive,” and thus, charges could be brought. In fact, I think that is exactly what should happen. If you agree a protest along the lines of “Free the Jena 6” has the potential to be effective, then you must agree that similar pressure brought to bear under an alternate message, i.e., “Equal Justice” could work as well.
The likelihood that the current DA will bring these charges is small- but putting pressure via protests is the best way to get his attention. I also think that charges could be brought from the Federal level, if indeed it is determined that a hate crime has occurred (the nooses, in particular). Of course, this raises a whole new slew of questions (e.g., can minors e charged with hate crimes? I dunno.)
Thanks again for your comments and questions.
oops, the question mark after “Personally, I’m happy to settle for the label “misguided” vs. “racist.” ” was not intended…should been a smiley.
Nikkos, it’s baiting because I didn’t call you a racist.
Did you read any of the rest of my comment, or just seize on the “baiting” part?
Is this feeling personal to you?
It feels really, really personal to non-whites (and women, for that matter) every single fucking minute of every single fucking day.
Pam at 181:
Well, I obviously missed your point! I think your comment above asking whether white bloggers cover the details of political kabuki as a spectator sport touches on an important point. The point I was trying to make was that bloggers do blog about what they think is important, and don’t particularly want “help” with those decisions, while your main point, which I misinterpreted, was exactly what the reasons were that so-called ‘progressives’ didn’t think this case is important enough to blog about.
And you are absolutely right on that - and, as others have commented, there is probably a lot of fear not only about saying the ‘wrong’ thing’ but there is indeed, I think, white privilege that allows whites to ignore racial issues instead of doing the hard work involved with really addressing them honestly.
The thing that staggers me about this whole case, aside from whites not generally getting the fact that this isn’t about just the Jena 6, but about the unfairness of the entire justice system where unequal treatment is the norm, is that I simply cannot understand how hanging a noose is any different from burning a cross, and why those kids that did the noose hanging aren’t up on malicious harassment hate crime charges.
nikkos, Quit challenging the Narrative.
DA Reed Walters says the white kids who hung the nooses didn’t get charged because he “searched the Louisiana statutes for an offense that fit that act, it is simply not there.” I say he needs to “search harded, asshole.”
Exactly!!!
As I recall, SCOTUS struck down a St. Paul, MN statute that made cross burning and the like illegal on free speech grounds. Unfortunately, this would fall under the same ruling.
I’m not saying and I never said that “he hasn’t been punished enough.” In fact, I think I have been quite clear in applauding the reduction of charges and arguing for equal justice in this case.
Actually, you haven’t. In your 12:53 comment alone, you seem to be advocating that instead of giving the black kids the same suspended sentences that the white kids got, they should drag the white kids back into court and give everyone a jail sentence. There certainly hasn’t been any indication by you that you think that the DA overreacted in any way — if anything, you’ve been indicating that you think he underreacted to what the white kids did and that they should face severe punishment.
And you think that severely punishing a bunch of teenagers for stupid fights that could have been prevented with some sensible adult intervention is “justice.” Weird.
And, um, when Barack Obama says, “Today I stand with those who stand for justice in Jena,” he’s supporting the protesters who are asking for the kids to be freed. That’s why he goes on to compare the protesters to people who sat at lunch counters to protest racism.
I know you’re desperate to find someone who agrees with you, but geez, could you be misreading what he said more willfully?
Daily Kos finally has a decent posting on the Jena 6.
I noticed that several of the other “progressive” blogs I read had stuff today too…
This may be a duplicate — apologies if so:
I’m not saying and I never said that “he hasn’t been punished enough.” In fact, I think I have been quite clear in applauding the reduction of charges and arguing for equal justice in this case.
Actually, you haven’t. In your 12:53 comment alone, you seem to be advocating that instead of giving the black kids the same suspended sentences that the white kids got, they should drag the white kids back into court and give everyone a jail sentence. There certainly hasn’t been any indication by you that you think that the DA overreacted in any way — if anything, you’ve been indicating that you think he underreacted to what the white kids did and that they should face severe punishment.
And you think that severely punishing a bunch of teenagers for stupid fights that could have been prevented with some sensible adult intervention is “justice.” Weird.
And, um, when Barack Obama says, “Today I stand with those who stand for justice in Jena,” he’s supporting the protesters who are asking for the kids to be freed. That’s why he goes on to compare the protesters to people who sat at lunch counters to protest racism.
I know you’re desperate to find someone who agrees with you, but geez, could you be misreading what he said more willfully?
Feh. Moderation. Hate it. Wishing for notice so I don’t double-post!
ACG, I heard another comment from the DA today that noted that according to LA law, you have to be an adult to commit a hate crime, so that’s why the white kids weren’t charged with a hate crime. Time to change LA law, I think…or charge them as adults since he had no problem charging the black kids as adults.
tinfoil hattie:
Guilty as charged- I seized on the “baiting” remark and did not grasp the larger point you were making. I know that you did not call me a racist- another commenter came very close- but since you weighed in
with the “baiting” remark, I responded to you as well.
I suppose at this point, that’s neither here nor there.
However, contrary to your snap judgment based on what I have written here, I feel that I do indeed grasp the true ugliness of racism. Nothing I have said here was intended to diminish that, as I have said now repeatedly, ugly incidents of racism occurred in this case. I think- I hope!- we can all agree on that much.
Again, where we seem to cross swords is over how best to proceed from here. I will humbly suggest to all involved in this conversation that the best way to proceed, even if we disagree, is to maintain some measure of civility. We agree on the problem- should disagreeing on the solution really divide us in this manner? I don’t think so.
Yes, the responses I have received are beginning to feel a bit personal, but I know that this issue and this debate have nothing at all to do with me. After all, who am I? Nobody, really. Some guy with a little blog and a lot of opinions. But in the grand scheme of things, who cares what I think (other than me, that is)?
Which is why I asked what folks think of Barack’s statement, which has yet to garner a reply. I don’t see anybody willing to step up and either support Barack’s position (other than me) or decry it. I guess it’s easier for some to challenge nobodies like me than one of the few people in this country whose voice could actually make a difference in this case.
Oh, goody. Now idiots in Louisiana are driving around with nooses hanging off the back of their trucks to taunt the protesters.
Clearly, the problem is not racism — it’s that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton showed up and forced this poor guy to put nooses on his truck. How dare they show up and force white people to act stupid?!?!
/sarcasm
Which is why I asked what folks think of Barack’s statement, which has yet to garner a reply.
My response to you about that is in moderation. Be patient.
Looking forward to it. Patience- as evidenced by my multiple comment postings yesterday- is something I’m working on.
We don’t agree on the problem, though. You see the justice system as a solution. Many of us are saying the justice system is a core part of the problem…as a whole. Not just in Jena.
As to Obama. A U.S. Senator is privileged. Hell yes. Does he face shit because he’s black? Of course. But it’s hard to argue that someone who was the editor of Harvard Law Review isn’t operating from some position of privilege. It may not be one of white privilege, but it’s privilege nonetheless.
And yeah, I’ve seen Obama display ignorance on a number of occassions.
He’s not some bloody savior. He’s a candidate for President. He’s running to the center, and very often saying things that may be inspirational but lack substance. He’s the Oprah of politics (all her blathering about “Remembering your spirit” and shit always completely negates the collective and social aspects of things. She’s an advocate of the cult of the individual in a way that suits certain suburban privileged white women.)
My response is at 195 and the dupe is at 197.
Basically, Obama didn’t say what you think he said. You’ve misinterpreted his words, but I can’t figure out if it’s ignorance or willful misdirection on your part.
Mnemosyne:
Care to elaborate?
All I did was copy and paste from his website…and added my interpretation that he is seeking justice for the Jena 6, not necessarily to “free” them.
Mnemosyne:
I see you already have elaborated above (moderation strikes again).
Funny, for someone accusing me of misrepresentation, you seem to be making a cottage industry of it in regards to my statements.
RE: charges on the nooses. As far as I can see, this is what happened:
Hate crimes are a federal charge - the students couldn’t be charged if they were under the age of 18 because the federal charges didn’t allow juveniles to be tried under that statute.
The DA ought to explain why he didn’t charge the students with defacing school property or trespassing, ect. (Although we can guess…)
And I was shocked that the progressive blog-o-sphere was MIA. What ever people might think about charges, the thousands of people who traveled to Jena were stunning. It’s historically significant.
And, if this grass-roots social & political movement bored the blogs — there’s the progressive issue of the high rate of incarceration in the US and the highly disproportional incarceration of black men that I would have expected liberal blogs to comment on.
I’ll elaborate by saying that if Barack wanted to “Free The Jena 6″ why do those words not escape his lips?
Does it really fekkin’ matter what the damn slogan is?
If said slogan is also a statement of intent, then yes.
Reed Walters, the Jena district attorney, is being accused of racism because he didn’t show Bell compassion when the teenager was brought before the court for the third time on assault charges in a two-year span. Where was our compassion long before Bell got into this kind of trouble?
That’s the question that needed to be asked in Jena and across the country on Thursday. But it wasn’t asked because everyone has been lied to about what really transpired in the small southern town.
There was no “schoolyard fight” as a result of nooses being hung on a whites-only tree.
Justin Barker, the white victim, was cold-cocked from behind, knocked unconscious and stomped by six black athletes. Barker, luckily, sustained no life-threatening injuries and was released from the hospital three hours after the attack.
A black U.S. attorney, Don Washington, investigated the “Jena Six” case and concluded that the attack on Barker had absolutely nothing to do with the noose-hanging incident three months before. The nooses and two off-campus incidents were tied to Barker’s assault by people wanting to gain sympathy for the “Jena Six” in reaction to Walters’ extreme charges of attempted murder….
It’s rarely mentioned that Bell was already on probation for assault when he was accused of participating in Barker’s attack.
Bell may have previous criminal charges, however the other young men did not. Still doesn’t change the fact that he’s being treated differently than white students the same age for the same crime (assault).
OMFG.
But at least, unlike the DA in Jena, authorities in Alexandria managed to find something to arrest these fuckwads for: here they came up with “inciting to riot” and because there was a 16-year-old in the truck being driven by an adult, the driver also got “contributing to the delinquency of a minor.”
I certainly agree with ACG that Reed Walters needs to search a bit harder for something to charge people hanging nooses with. While there may not be a specific “noose-hanging” statute, there are certainly laws against making threats of violence, harassment, and intimidation.
That would suggest that the black kids certainly showed remarkable restraint for quite a while, yes?
But you really couldn’t expect them to do so forever…
nikkos, I have a serious question for you:
Do you think that the appropriate punishment for a group of 17- and 18-year-old boys who beat up another boy–sending him to the hospital, but not serious enough to keep the victim from going to a party that same night–is to put them in prison for up to 15 years with adult inmates? If not, then what do you think is the appropriate punishment, considering that the accused have already spent time in jail and that their families have had to pay $80,000 each to have them freed on bail?
http://www.authorsden.com/visit/viewarticle.asp?AuthorID=17296&id=32967
That link has some damning accusations.
If the following claims are true, than case is far more complicated than defenders of the Jena 6 are making it out to be:
1. The speech given by Reed Walters that included the now infamous statement “I can end your life with the stroke of a pen” was not given to a group of black students. It was given during a speech to the entire student body in an assembly called by the school’s principal to calm a community that was pulling their children out of school because there were two fights one day with racial overtones. Two girls, one white and one black fought. Another student was taken to the emergency room to receive stitches.
2. Three months [after the noose incident], Justin Sloan, not a student at Jena High, fought with one of the black students, Robert Baily, at the fair barn when a couple of black students tried to enter a private party. The next evening, at “Gotta Go” store, Justin Sloan and Robert Baily confronted one another in the parking lot. There were two other black students with Baily. As they ran towards Sloan, Sloan rushed to his truck to get a shotgun, which the black boys wrestled from him and fled.
(3 guys went after one; pulling a gun is not an excessive response)
3. The actions of the three white students who hung the nooses demonstrate prejudice and bigotry. However, they were not just given “two days suspension” as reported by national news agencies. After first being expelled, then upon appeal, being allowed to re-enter the school system, they were sent to an alternative school, off-campus, for an extended period of time. They underwent investigations by Federal and Sate authorities. They were given psychological evaluations. Even when they were eventually allowed back on campus they were not allowed to be a part of the general population for weeks.
Beth, good point. No, I don’t “condone” violence, but when the law tells you over and over that you’re life and safety isn’t worth a good goddamn, it leads to the violence that happened in that school yard.
Think of it this way, if a slave owner were whipping his slave, and the slave were able to grab his whip away and begin whipping the slave owner, would you say the violence was morally equal on the slave’s part?
Rose, that scenario would constitute self-defense. Hardly an apples-to-apples comparison.
Darkrose, Countess of Creme Brulee-
No, I do not think 15 years is a fair or just punishment, which is why I support and applaud the reduction of charges from attempted murder to battery. I don’t think the battery charge carries with it such a lengthy term, however. I think if convicted, the time served should be taken into account.
BTW, do you know what the sentencing guidelines are for minors convicted of battery in Louisiana? I will admit I do not; I tried to find them. I only know it’s a much lesser charge than attempted murder.
I also think any whites that committed alleged cries should be charged appropriately and proportionately.
Thanks for your question.
MAJeff–
I think you’re missing the issue here. While I think we can all agree that the justice system is certainly flawed, the justice system is not what is on trial here. The central issue, as many have stated before, is the equal punishment of both sides of this dispute.
While the initial charges that were filed were certainly a result of overreaction, racial prejudice and a particular culture of that region of the US (though in varying degrees native to all areas), adding further injustice by not holding the Jena 6 accountable for their actions would only serve to further devalue the system you so vehemently oppose.
Minorities have been crying for equality for years–and rightfully so. Their victory should come with the imprisonment/punishment of the Jena 6–and the equal punishment of the whites who also committed their crimes.
I’ll be away from the computadora for the rest of the day as well as the weekend, so I will bid y’all adieu for now.
Thank you for the challenging and edifying discussion.
Equal Justice For All!
http://www.authorsden.com/visit/viewarticle.asp?AuthorID=17296&id=32967
That link has some damning accusations.
If the following claims are true, than case is far more complicated than defenders of the Jena 6 are making it out to be:
1. The speech given by Reed Walters that included the now infamous statement “I can end your life with the stroke of a pen” was not given to a group of black students. It was given during a speech to the entire student body in an assembly called by the school’s principal to calm a community that was pulling their children out of school because there were two fights one day with racial overtones. Two girls, one white and one black fought. Another student was taken to the emergency room to receive stitches.
2. Three months [after the noose incident], Justin Sloan, not a student at Jena High, fought with one of the black students, Robert Baily, at the fair barn when a couple of black students tried to enter a private party. The next evening, at “Gotta Go” store, Justin Sloan and Robert Baily confronted one another in the parking lot. There were two other black students with Baily. As they ran towards Sloan, Sloan rushed to his truck to get a shotgun, which the black boys wrestled from him and fled.
(3 guys went after one; pulling a gun is not an excessive response)
3. The actions of the three white students who hung the nooses demonstrate prejudice and bigotry. However, they were not just given “two days suspension” as reported by national news agencies. After first being expelled, then upon appeal, being allowed to re-enter the school system, they were sent to an alternative school, off-campus, for an extended period of time. They underwent investigations by Federal and Sate authorities. They were given psychological evaluations. Even when they were eventually allowed back on campus they were not allowed to be a part of the general population for weeks.
Fascinating how the comment thread long, long ago stopped being about the subject of the post and became all about Nikkos. Funny how that happens.
NICHOLAS,do us all a favor and grow up over the weekend, would ya??
Nikkos - If the facts of this case are correct then the law REFUSED TO PROTECT THE BLACK STUDENTS FROM RACISTS WHITE MOBS!
In days of slavery, it was LEGAL to whip your slave - so it would not have been considered anyway near self-defense.
IF THE LAW TELLS YOU THAT YOUR LIFE AND SAFETY IS NOT WORTH ANYTHING IT’S GODDAMN LIKELY FOR THE SITUATION TO END IN VIOLENCE AND THE VIOLENCE ON THE PART OF THE OPPRESSED IS NOT THE MORAL EQUIVLANT OF THE VIOLENCE ON THE PART OF THE OPPRESSOR!!!!!
Mike - They were kept away from the general population of the school for WEEKS for making a terrorist threat of death by hanging! Well gawwwleeee! And here I thought they got off easy!
Yeah, my original thought that some of you so-called progressive liberals are some serious racist assholes and apologists for some very horrible stuff is unchanged. I am white by the way, but this kind of sick shit cuts at my very soul.
Mike - They were kept away from the general population of the school for WEEKS for making a terrorist threat of death by hanging! Well gawwwleeee! And here I thought they got off easy!
The point is, the noose hanging was taken very seriously, not dismissed like some think it was.
What about the other statements in my post, Rose? If they are true, than the situation is hardly black and white. So to speak.
1. That the assembly had to be held at all shows there were deep and pervasive racial problems at this school way before the noose “incident.” The fact that there was a “white tree” says almost all that needs to be said. The fact that white people who committed assaults similar in gravity to the Deadly Sneaker Assault ™ and are scot-free says the rest of what needs to be said.
2.
It sure as shit is, as opposed to, say, getting in your truck and driving away instead.
Do you really believe that pulling a shotgun on three men you believe are going to hurt you is a more logical, reasoned, sensible response than fleeing the scene? Do you feel Sloan would have been justified in shooting those 3 people? Do you feel that a man wresting a shotgun away from someone threatening him with said shotgun is stealing, or defending himself? Do you believe that after the flood in New Orleans, white people were “foraging” and black people were “looting”?
You are coasting dangerously close to the “racist asshole” label with your patronizing explanations of why the Jena 6 are terrible people and need to be kept in jail for this assault.
Well, Mike, when there are conflicting accounts of the various incidents that led to this controversy (and there certainly are), one has to judge the credibility of the sources of information. The mainstream news organizations have their problems; it’s true. But why should we consider Eddie Thompson to be more credible than them? His tone is whiny and self-pitying, and (looking at his other writings) he seems to be more than a bit racist. So no, I do not consider him to be credible.
O’Reilly surprised “there was no difference” between Harlem restaurant and other New York restaurants
http://mediamatters.org/items/200709210007
I rest my fucking case.
(Sorry I don’t know how to embed a link. I’m a technical ignoramus.)
The charges weren’t reduced from attempted murder to battery–they were reduced from attempted murder, which has a maximum sentence of 80 years, to assault with a deadly weapon, which carries a maximum sentence of 15 years.
I don’t know, but please keep in mind that only one was considered a minor, because he was 16 at the time of the incident. The others were all either 17 and 18, and according to LA law, you can be tried as an adult at 17.
Nikkos, I hate give a history lesson in this forum because it has to be so brief, but I’ll try:
All of the language that Obama used is very specifically civil rights language. It’s the language that Martin Luther King Jr. and other civil rights leaders used in the struggles of the 1950s and 1960s. Obama is very directly and very specifically reminding people of those struggles and equating what’s going on in Jena with them.
He doesn’t have to say “Free the Jena 6!” because he’s saying something even stronger.
Okay, Eddie Thompson lost me right here:
So there isn’t an “all white tree,” but only white students sit under that tree by tradition. Guh? Doesn’t that kinda make it the all white tree, then?
And, Ed, the issue isn’t that there’s “forced segregation.” The issue is that there is de facto segregation that’s enforced by the school board and townspeople who looked the other way and made excuses when white students made death threats towards black students who dared to sit under the “whites only” tree that you say doesn’t even exist.
Oh, and I’m sure our new racist troll friends* will be pleased to know that Mychal Bell has been denied bail for hitting another teenager with a deadly sneaker.
* No, Nikkos, I’m not counting you in that specific number, so calm down. You’re definitely a concern troll, but I haven’t quite decided your motive yet.
The inherent inequality of the justice system, it’s role as a tool of upholding white supremacy, is EXACTLY the issue. The problem of unequal justice is a problem of a racist system. That you and others refuse to recognize that the system is racist is the problem.
1. That the assembly had to be held at all shows there were deep and pervasive racial problems at this school way before the noose “incident.” The fact that there was a “white tree” says almost all that needs to be said.
The problem is, what you’re saying doesn’t answer the question of which party the aggressor in the shotgun incident was, and it doesn’t explain exactly why the six black kids jumped the one white kid. Yes, it was a racist atmosphere, but the law and the courts can’t handle the issue from that perspective. They have to ask “Who attacked who?”
The fact that white people who committed assaults similar in gravity to the Deadly Sneaker Assault ™ and are scot-free says the rest of what needs to be said.
I haven’t seen any accounts of any such attacks. Again, there’s a serious lack of information surrounding this case.
But why should we consider Eddie Thompson to be more credible than them?
If you want the law and the courts to act, you can’t use this line of reasoning. The only question that matters is, who attacked who? You can (entirely rightfully) point out that Thompson is obviously a racist douche bag, but that doesn’t also automatically make him a malicious liar.
If Thompson gives a reasonable account of the facts, than this whole situation is far more complicated than it appears. It might turn out to be another situation like Duke Lacrosse, and I don’t think anyone wants that.
It sure as shit is, as opposed to, say, getting in your truck and driving away instead.
You can’t fault someone for fighting rather than fleeing.
I absolutely fault someone for being an idiot and choosing to possibly shoot someone instead of heading for safety, so thank you kindly for not telling me what I “can” do.
I fault that as much as you fault using unjust situations like this to address the egregious imbalance toward whites in our justice system.
This is how laws get changed. Someone finally f***ing figures out it’s wrong to count black people as 2/5 of a person or it’s wrong to refuse to let women vote, and it’s wrong to deny equal access to public education based on race, and there you have it — big arguments, lots of upheaval, usually a change for the better.
Laws aren’t changed because a huge quantity of third hand information spreads through the internet and msm.
It’s one thing to choose the side of the oppressed; it’s quite another to completely dispense with trying to develop factual accounts of events.
(And what’s this talk about “changing laws” anyways? What law is at stake here…?)
Mnemosyne,
I believe the sneakers were still attached to the defendants’ feet as they were kicking the victim into unconsciousness. They weren’t hitting him with sneakers.
Actually, that’s exactly how laws are starting to be changed, and policy is starting to be influenced. To actually believe the internet doesn’t have that kind of power is to be in denial.
And I’d say laws that let you put a kid in jail for 15-30 years for assaulting someone with a sneaker could use changing.
But listen to how you characterize it! “Assaulting someone with a sneaker.” By the accounts I’ve seen, the white guy was lying on the ground being kicked, and (some?) of the black kids had to be pulled off him. A guy lying on the ground was being kicked.
Is it a safe assumption that if 6 white kids did the same thing to a black kid, you’d never, ever say they “assaulted him with sneakers?”
And I didn’t say anything about the internet not having power as such. I was talking about third hand information, with might be entirely false. You seem to be completely unconcerned with establishing the facts of the case.
This is starting to smell like Duke Lacrosse all over again, if only because people are not being careful with their fact finding.
Mike is making a factual error.
The DA was exclusively addressing the black students at the assembly when he said that he could end their lives with the stroke of a pen. He deliberately turned to them to say it.
The DA was exclusively addressing the black students at the assembly when he said that he could end their lives with the stroke of a pen. He deliberately turned to them to say it.
Given that my whole point is that third hand information and rumour mongering seem to be surrounding this whole case…. do you have a link?
“I love the juxtaposition of this case with the continuing saga of another injustice of the system — O.J. Simpson.”
The funny thing is that the right has designated the belief that OJ is innocent as the official position of the left.
Sure, among the small fraction of people who think OJ is innocent, probably a slightly larger number are liberal than conservative–but, the % of people who know he’s guilty is near 100% on both the right and the left.
There’s no real reason liberals would support OJ on an ideological basis, given that the case was about DOMESTIC VIOLENCE and about RICH PEOPLE BUYING JUSTICE, much more than about race-baiting or “political correctness” (I cannot believe people blamed the case on the PC media.)
Not to mention they have brought up OJ’s support of the Clintons. It’s not like they have control over who endorses them per se…What about all the Republican politicians Ted Bundy not only endorsed but directly worked with? What about Mike Tyson’s endorsement of Michael Steele and possibly other GOP figures?
At least, given the typical longevity of former major football players because of injuries, regardless of the new trial’s outcome we’ll probably only have to deal with OJ a few more years.
From the Jena Times Chronological Order of Events Concerning the “Jena Six”
I wonder, Paul, when people tell you to get out of their house, do you look for windows to break into?
Jesse Jackson is a race baiter now? He hasn’t been real helpful on the cases until the issue was huge enough to attract attention. But neither have most Big Figures of all colors who should care about justice. Race baiter? What?
That is not reality. That is a right-wing talking point.
Pam, I’m sorry … It is a great post and here I am zeroing in on the one point I disagree with.
So “wow, great post” should have been my main message.
I wonder, Paul, when people tell you to get out of their house, do you look for windows to break into?
No but I can stand on the public street outside of it with a megaphone.
So if I see a someone here commenting at a rightwing blog, I can scream BAN THEM.
So much for encouraging debate.
No disagreeing with the narrative.
BTW, I did not expect it to post just seeing if it would.
honestly, Paul, the world would be better off without you or your movment. Too bad your mom’s aim with the hanger wasn’t better and she only produced brain damage.
And call me hatefull if you want, but you fuckers have been rejoicing in our deaths, loving AIDS, and attempting to extirpate our presence in society for ages.
You’re a racist, homophobic, misogynist fuck without whom with world would be a better place.
Thank you Pam!
I’m a progressive blogger, and I tried to get a variety of leading liberal blogs to post on the situation in Jena, starting early this summer. They gave me exactly those lame excuses you provide here. I’m white, so you’re right, it’s not just about race, but also about the lame set of things that white males running the lefty blogosphere see as pressing. Very frustrating. Do we have to get 50,000 people protesting before black teenagers getting railroaded is important enough for comment?
Btw, I did blog on Jena at New Vision’s blog, Foresight, back in May and June.
http://www.newvisioninstitute.org/foresight/index.php/2007/06/01/dont-let-the-nooses-fool-you-the-south-is-us/
No disagreeing with the narrative.
How about, just don’t be a moron? If you try to tell me “the Earth is flat”, you’re not “disagreeing with the narrative”, oh Brave Truth-Teller; you’re just being fucking stupid.
Things don’t get less true because more people say them; neither do things become less true because a blog bans offensive liars.
NIKKOS asked does anyone here think the Jena 6 should be freed?
Answer? YES!
They served their time, and more - up to 9 months. Their are rapers and murders who barely get more than that.
Whether they should be freed, not freed, lesser charges, you think the whites should have had more charges, or what ever…why the hell have y’all not blogged on it?
But I thank the white “progressive” bloggesphere for showing it’s true colors: http://community.livejournal.com/black_intellect/31316.html
www,blackperspective.net