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	<title>Comments on: Leaving is losing</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/09/11/leaving-is-losing/</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 00:33:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: seeker6079</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/09/11/leaving-is-losing/#comment-449264</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:48:15 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/09/11/leaving-is-losing/#comment-449264</guid>
					<description>Dammit Dammit &lt;b&gt;DAMMIT&lt;/b&gt;!!!!.  You all remember that &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/opinion/19jayamaha.html?pagewanted=1&amp;amp;ei=5090&amp;amp;en=5a8349a0e944e61b&amp;amp;ex=1345176000&amp;amp;partner=rssuserland&amp;amp;emc=rss&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;brilliant, honest and corporate-media ignored NYT op-ed-piece&lt;/a&gt;.  Well, two of the soldiers who wrote that &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/9/12/0926/28618&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;have just been killed&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Dammit Dammit <b>DAMMIT</b>!!!!.  You all remember that <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/opinion/19jayamaha.html?pagewanted=1&amp;ei=5090&amp;en=5a8349a0e944e61b&amp;ex=1345176000&amp;partner=rssuserland&amp;emc=rss" rel="nofollow">brilliant, honest and corporate-media ignored NYT op-ed-piece</a>.  Well, two of the soldiers who wrote that <a href="http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/9/12/0926/28618" rel="nofollow">have just been killed</a>.
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		<title>by: John in Nashville</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/09/11/leaving-is-losing/#comment-449239</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 23:49:34 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/09/11/leaving-is-losing/#comment-449239</guid>
					<description>Congress has not seriously considered impeachment, ironically because Newt Gingrich and Tom DeLay gave impeachment proceedings a bad name.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Congress has not seriously considered impeachment, ironically because Newt Gingrich and Tom DeLay gave impeachment proceedings a bad name.
</p>
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		<title>by: Blue Jean</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/09/11/leaving-is-losing/#comment-449235</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 22:34:22 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/09/11/leaving-is-losing/#comment-449235</guid>
					<description>Bob Cesca has a funny &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/its-rudys-favorite-day-_b_64031.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;column&lt;/a&gt; on Rudy and how 9/11 has been leeched of all meaning by those vampires feeding off it for political advantage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Bob Cesca has a funny <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/its-rudys-favorite-day-_b_64031.html" rel="nofollow">column</a> on Rudy and how 9/11 has been leeched of all meaning by those vampires feeding off it for political advantage.
</p>
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		<title>by: Cris</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/09/11/leaving-is-losing/#comment-449231</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 21:51:31 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/09/11/leaving-is-losing/#comment-449231</guid>
					<description>gordo, I do recognize the virtue and the expediency of what you're saying -- that with only two alternatives, it's not a good idea to undermine the less bad one.

But what Ben Alpers is saying is that it's not useful to consider the Democrats &quot;the peace party.&quot; By their own account, they are far, far from that characterization. (Note how many Democrats take great pains to say they aren't against all war, just &lt;i&gt;this&lt;/i&gt; war.)

The reason it isn't useful is that it leads to complacency.  It leads to a situation where we think electing Democrats is enough. It may be necessary, but it isn't sufficient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>gordo, I do recognize the virtue and the expediency of what you&#8217;re saying &#8212; that with only two alternatives, it&#8217;s not a good idea to undermine the less bad one.</p>
	<p>But what Ben Alpers is saying is that it&#8217;s not useful to consider the Democrats &#8220;the peace party.&#8221; By their own account, they are far, far from that characterization. (Note how many Democrats take great pains to say they aren&#8217;t against all war, just <i>this</i> war.)</p>
	<p>The reason it isn&#8217;t useful is that it leads to complacency.  It leads to a situation where we think electing Democrats is enough. It may be necessary, but it isn&#8217;t sufficient.
</p>
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		<title>by: Ms. Kate, Goddess of Tomato Cultivation</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/09/11/leaving-is-losing/#comment-449230</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 21:45:36 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/09/11/leaving-is-losing/#comment-449230</guid>
					<description>Ah! Here it is: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28148</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ah! Here it is: <a href='http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28148' rel='nofollow'>http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28148</a>
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		<title>by: Ms. Kate, Goddess of Tomato Cultivation</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/09/11/leaving-is-losing/#comment-449228</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 21:40:46 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/09/11/leaving-is-losing/#comment-449228</guid>
					<description>I suppose Sharon baked a flag cake?

My older son came home quite angry at his principal for rambling on about ISLAMIC terrorists ad nauseum, playing some patriotic country drivel, and then braying about the heroes who tried to tried to take over the plane that went down in PA.

That last part was particularly difficult, as older son attended a small private preschool with the nephew of the man who could have piloted that plane had the retakeover been successful.  Nicky's uncle is close with the Oganowski brothers, one of whom died and the other is now running for congress.  He had actually met these guys in real life.

We played My Country again - THIS time, loud enough for said principal, who lives around the corner, to hear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I suppose Sharon baked a flag cake?</p>
	<p>My older son came home quite angry at his principal for rambling on about ISLAMIC terrorists ad nauseum, playing some patriotic country drivel, and then braying about the heroes who tried to tried to take over the plane that went down in PA.</p>
	<p>That last part was particularly difficult, as older son attended a small private preschool with the nephew of the man who could have piloted that plane had the retakeover been successful.  Nicky&#8217;s uncle is close with the Oganowski brothers, one of whom died and the other is now running for congress.  He had actually met these guys in real life.</p>
	<p>We played My Country again - THIS time, loud enough for said principal, who lives around the corner, to hear.
</p>
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		<title>by: gordo</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/09/11/leaving-is-losing/#comment-449221</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 19:17:00 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/09/11/leaving-is-losing/#comment-449221</guid>
					<description>I got pissed at Sharon and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.appletreeblog.com/?p=2955&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;wrote this&lt;/a&gt;.

Ben Alpers--

I don't see why it's useful to pretend that Clinton and the Democrats are responsible for the invasion of Iraq. Clinton dealt with Hussein for 8 years without launching an invasion. Bush officials were rattling their sabres from the day he was inaugurated. And it was Bush, not Cheney or Armitage or anyone else, who told Clarke to find evidence to implicate Hussein in the 9/11 attacks.

I also don't think it's useful to attack the current congressional Democrats for the sins of Gephart and Daschle. The fact is, the current party leadership has pressed for an end to the war, and the current congress has passed a bill that would have mandated a withdrawal timetable. 

The fact is, there are only two viable parties in this country. One is overwhelmingly for withdrawal, and one is overwhelmingly for staying indefinitely. And by unfairly maligning the peace party, you help the war party.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I got pissed at Sharon and <a href="http://www.appletreeblog.com/?p=2955" rel="nofollow">wrote this</a>.</p>
	<p>Ben Alpers&#8211;</p>
	<p>I don&#8217;t see why it&#8217;s useful to pretend that Clinton and the Democrats are responsible for the invasion of Iraq. Clinton dealt with Hussein for 8 years without launching an invasion. Bush officials were rattling their sabres from the day he was inaugurated. And it was Bush, not Cheney or Armitage or anyone else, who told Clarke to find evidence to implicate Hussein in the 9/11 attacks.</p>
	<p>I also don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s useful to attack the current congressional Democrats for the sins of Gephart and Daschle. The fact is, the current party leadership has pressed for an end to the war, and the current congress has passed a bill that would have mandated a withdrawal timetable. </p>
	<p>The fact is, there are only two viable parties in this country. One is overwhelmingly for withdrawal, and one is overwhelmingly for staying indefinitely. And by unfairly maligning the peace party, you help the war party.
</p>
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		<title>by: RacyT</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/09/11/leaving-is-losing/#comment-449220</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 18:53:50 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/09/11/leaving-is-losing/#comment-449220</guid>
					<description>From Sharon's blog:

&lt;blockquote&gt;At home, I talked to my Internet friends, many for the first time on the telephone. We watched the news for hours, mumbling, speculating, and trying to make sense of it all. We wrote e-mails back and forth to each other. We gathered with loved ones (my husband came home from work early and we just sat there, the five of us, watching the wreckage that was the life we'd known). We talked to people we hadn't talked to in years. We tried to connect with every human being we knew, just to make sure they were safe.

The closest I came to a connection with 9/11 was that a friend of mine and his wife were trapped in New York after an ill-planned business trip left them stranded for several days without a way to get home. They knew people who died in the tragedy, which made their anxiety worse.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

She had &lt;strong&gt;no connection&lt;/strong&gt; to NYC, but watched the &quot;wreckage of the life we'd known.&quot; Melodramatic much?

Shorter: it's all about Meeeeeeeee!

'Nuff said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>From Sharon&#8217;s blog:</p>
	<blockquote><p>At home, I talked to my Internet friends, many for the first time on the telephone. We watched the news for hours, mumbling, speculating, and trying to make sense of it all. We wrote e-mails back and forth to each other. We gathered with loved ones (my husband came home from work early and we just sat there, the five of us, watching the wreckage that was the life we&#8217;d known). We talked to people we hadn&#8217;t talked to in years. We tried to connect with every human being we knew, just to make sure they were safe.</p>
	<p>The closest I came to a connection with 9/11 was that a friend of mine and his wife were trapped in New York after an ill-planned business trip left them stranded for several days without a way to get home. They knew people who died in the tragedy, which made their anxiety worse.
</p></blockquote>
	<p>She had <strong>no connection</strong> to NYC, but watched the &#8220;wreckage of the life we&#8217;d known.&#8221; Melodramatic much?</p>
	<p>Shorter: it&#8217;s all about Meeeeeeeee!</p>
	<p>&#8216;Nuff said.
</p>
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		<title>by: from the office</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/09/11/leaving-is-losing/#comment-449218</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 18:35:48 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/09/11/leaving-is-losing/#comment-449218</guid>
					<description>For those of you plagued by the ads, use the Firefox browser with AdBlock.

Makes for a better viewing experience and you get tabbed windows to boot</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>For those of you plagued by the ads, use the Firefox browser with AdBlock.</p>
	<p>Makes for a better viewing experience and you get tabbed windows to boot
</p>
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		<title>by: moss.gatlin</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/09/11/leaving-is-losing/#comment-449213</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 18:13:45 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/09/11/leaving-is-losing/#comment-449213</guid>
					<description>que viva Allende.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>que viva Allende.
</p>
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