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	<title>Comments on: Today&#8217;s essentialism smackdown</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/27/todays-essentialism-smackdown/</link>
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	<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 13:06:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Brad Jackson</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/27/todays-essentialism-smackdown/#comment-446066</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 07:42:15 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/27/todays-essentialism-smackdown/#comment-446066</guid>
					<description>&lt;b&gt;inge&lt;/b&gt;: Apparently I was either misremembering or what I read was incorrect.  I've been looking for a cite on what I said and I can't find it.  Everything I have found during my search this time says that I'm wrong and that white skin does give a noticable advantage in vitamin D production.  It also says that during our hairy phase we most likely had pale skin and developed dark skin to avoid foliate deficiencies.

&lt;b&gt;PhoenicianRomans&lt;/b&gt; You are correct, I was wrong about the evolutionary benefits of dark skin and light skin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><b>inge</b>: Apparently I was either misremembering or what I read was incorrect.  I&#8217;ve been looking for a cite on what I said and I can&#8217;t find it.  Everything I have found during my search this time says that I&#8217;m wrong and that white skin does give a noticable advantage in vitamin D production.  It also says that during our hairy phase we most likely had pale skin and developed dark skin to avoid foliate deficiencies.</p>
	<p><b>PhoenicianRomans</b> You are correct, I was wrong about the evolutionary benefits of dark skin and light skin.
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		<title>by: lisajulie</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/27/todays-essentialism-smackdown/#comment-445940</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 18:37:53 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/27/todays-essentialism-smackdown/#comment-445940</guid>
					<description>Just sticking my head up here to say that my boyfriend and I seem to see colors identically; i.e. that when one of us sees a car, frex, we agree on what color to call it.  And this isn't just &quot;blue&quot;, but &quot;yellowy-gray gold&quot; or  &quot;cyan&quot; or differeing between &quot;blue&quot; and indigo&quot;

Given that his brother is color-blind (red-green), this is all the more amazing.

I vaguely remember having heard that there are 16 different alleles for color vision and the variation is all over the lot.  As a friend of mine said: &quot;Some people have more crayons in their box.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Just sticking my head up here to say that my boyfriend and I seem to see colors identically; i.e. that when one of us sees a car, frex, we agree on what color to call it.  And this isn&#8217;t just &#8220;blue&#8221;, but &#8220;yellowy-gray gold&#8221; or  &#8220;cyan&#8221; or differeing between &#8220;blue&#8221; and indigo&#8221;</p>
	<p>Given that his brother is color-blind (red-green), this is all the more amazing.</p>
	<p>I vaguely remember having heard that there are 16 different alleles for color vision and the variation is all over the lot.  As a friend of mine said: &#8220;Some people have more crayons in their box.&#8221;
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		<title>by: PhoenicianRomans</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/27/todays-essentialism-smackdown/#comment-445932</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 18:14:01 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/27/todays-essentialism-smackdown/#comment-445932</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;Among other things black folks don’t suffer from any particular vitamin D deficiency when living further away from the equator.&lt;/i&gt;

Which black folk under which circumstances?  Seafood is a source of vitamin D; people with a heavy seafood diet have less selective pressure for fairer skin. It's the darker skinned away from the coast that would suffer the most.

And I suspect that you're wrong about the benefits of black skin in evolutionary terms.  Granted, it is not a fool-proof or perhaps even a great protection from the sun, but it is *some* protection, and the problem would have been ongoing for pre-industrial peoples.  There would have been a continual selective pressure against fair skin for people in the tropics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Among other things black folks don’t suffer from any particular vitamin D deficiency when living further away from the equator.</i></p>
	<p>Which black folk under which circumstances?  Seafood is a source of vitamin D; people with a heavy seafood diet have less selective pressure for fairer skin. It&#8217;s the darker skinned away from the coast that would suffer the most.</p>
	<p>And I suspect that you&#8217;re wrong about the benefits of black skin in evolutionary terms.  Granted, it is not a fool-proof or perhaps even a great protection from the sun, but it is *some* protection, and the problem would have been ongoing for pre-industrial peoples.  There would have been a continual selective pressure against fair skin for people in the tropics.
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		<title>by: PhoenicianRomans</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/27/todays-essentialism-smackdown/#comment-445931</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 18:13:44 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/27/todays-essentialism-smackdown/#comment-445931</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;Among other things black folks don’t suffer from any particular vitamin D deficiency when living further away from the equator.&lt;/i&gt;

Which black folk under which circumstances?  Seafood is a source of vitamin D; people with a heavy seafood diet have less selective pressure for fairer skin. It's the darker skinned away from the coast that would suffer the most.

And I suspect that you're wrong about the benefits of black skin in evolutionary terms.  Granted, it is not a fool-proof or perhaps even a great protection from the sun, but it is *some* protection, and the problem would have been ongoing for pre-industrial peoples.  There would have been a continual selective pressure against fair skin for people in the tropics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Among other things black folks don’t suffer from any particular vitamin D deficiency when living further away from the equator.</i></p>
	<p>Which black folk under which circumstances?  Seafood is a source of vitamin D; people with a heavy seafood diet have less selective pressure for fairer skin. It&#8217;s the darker skinned away from the coast that would suffer the most.</p>
	<p>And I suspect that you&#8217;re wrong about the benefits of black skin in evolutionary terms.  Granted, it is not a fool-proof or perhaps even a great protection from the sun, but it is *some* protection, and the problem would have been ongoing for pre-industrial peoples.  There would have been a continual selective pressure against fair skin for people in the tropics.
</p>
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		<title>by: Lahana</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/27/todays-essentialism-smackdown/#comment-445901</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:02:36 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/27/todays-essentialism-smackdown/#comment-445901</guid>
					<description>What has not been mentioned yet, it the fact that, until recently, Red not Blue was seen as the masculine (and pink is just a faded red). Red was seen as a stronger color, the color of blood, the color of Mars - the God of Wa. Blue was a softer color, the color of water, often seen as female. That is why you always see Mary dressed in blue. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>What has not been mentioned yet, it the fact that, until recently, Red not Blue was seen as the masculine (and pink is just a faded red). Red was seen as a stronger color, the color of blood, the color of Mars - the God of Wa. Blue was a softer color, the color of water, often seen as female. That is why you always see Mary dressed in blue.
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		<title>by: JoAsakura, Minor Deity of Jelly Babies</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/27/todays-essentialism-smackdown/#comment-445847</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:25:12 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/27/todays-essentialism-smackdown/#comment-445847</guid>
					<description>I'm coming in totally late to this party after a long absence, but Warren, i just wanted to say your final picture made my afternoon. :)

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;m coming in totally late to this party after a long absence, but Warren, i just wanted to say your final picture made my afternoon. <img src='http://pandagon.blogsome.com/wp-images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />
</p>
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		<title>by: realityfighter</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/27/todays-essentialism-smackdown/#comment-445833</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 12:37:00 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/27/todays-essentialism-smackdown/#comment-445833</guid>
					<description>Apologies if someone else already said this, but:

Brad, the Y chromosome isn't just a shorter version of the X chromosome with some information left out.  The Y chromosome contains hormone production genes to trigger male fetus development, and some others that are used in sperm production.  That's it.

That means &lt;i&gt;any&lt;/i&gt; gene on a male's X chromosome will be unmatched on the Y chromosome.  Hence the load of recessive genes that express far more often in males.  (MPB, red-green colorblindness, etc.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Apologies if someone else already said this, but:</p>
	<p>Brad, the Y chromosome isn&#8217;t just a shorter version of the X chromosome with some information left out.  The Y chromosome contains hormone production genes to trigger male fetus development, and some others that are used in sperm production.  That&#8217;s it.</p>
	<p>That means <i>any</i> gene on a male&#8217;s X chromosome will be unmatched on the Y chromosome.  Hence the load of recessive genes that express far more often in males.  (MPB, red-green colorblindness, etc.)
</p>
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		<title>by: myid8myego</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/27/todays-essentialism-smackdown/#comment-445810</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 11:33:34 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/27/todays-essentialism-smackdown/#comment-445810</guid>
					<description>It is probably worth noting that not all traits carried down from the distant past conferred biological or reproductive advantage- if a trait isn't actively harmful, there's no reason for it to be selected out of the gene pool.  Which means that these variations in color vision, fascinating as they may be, don't necessarily indicate that the possessors of one trait over another had any advantages; only that the trait didn't stop them from making babies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It is probably worth noting that not all traits carried down from the distant past conferred biological or reproductive advantage- if a trait isn&#8217;t actively harmful, there&#8217;s no reason for it to be selected out of the gene pool.  Which means that these variations in color vision, fascinating as they may be, don&#8217;t necessarily indicate that the possessors of one trait over another had any advantages; only that the trait didn&#8217;t stop them from making babies.
</p>
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		<title>by: mnemosyne</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/27/todays-essentialism-smackdown/#comment-445804</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 11:24:04 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/27/todays-essentialism-smackdown/#comment-445804</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;Mnemosyne, forgive me, I didn’t see anything in the linked article about skin color (the vitamin C stuff hints at how my ancestors survived, though). The Inuit are pretty light-skinned. Maybe not as fish-belly pale or freckly as I am, but they wouldn’t be mistaken for equatorial types.&lt;/i&gt;

They also wouldn't be mistaken for Swedes or Norwegians,  which is what most people think of when they're thinking of light-skinned northern Europeans.  When I talk about &quot;light-skinned&quot; people, I'm talking about blond, blue-eyed people with light skin, or redheads with pale skin.

If your definition of &quot;light-skinned&quot; includes Mediterranean people from southern Italy, Spain, or Greece then, yes, by your definition, the Inuit and similar peoples are &quot;pretty light-skinned.&quot;  When comparing them to other northern peoples like the Scandinavians, though, they're distinctly darker.

Please note that in this discussion of &quot;light-skinned&quot; and &quot;dark-skinned,&quot; I am &lt;b&gt;&lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; making any value judgement &lt;i&gt;whatsoever&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; on which color of skin is &quot;better&quot; to have, or if people with one skin color are &quot;better&quot; than another.  We're talking about how humans adapted to the environments they found themselves in over the millions of years that we developed.  Nothing more.

And you should probably let the &lt;a href=&quot;http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/vitamind.asp&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;National Institutes of Health&lt;/a&gt; know that they're spreading misinformation when they advise dark-skinned people living in northern states to take vitamin D supplements.  I, too, would be interested in seeing journal articles refuting those studies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Mnemosyne, forgive me, I didn’t see anything in the linked article about skin color (the vitamin C stuff hints at how my ancestors survived, though). The Inuit are pretty light-skinned. Maybe not as fish-belly pale or freckly as I am, but they wouldn’t be mistaken for equatorial types.</i></p>
	<p>They also wouldn&#8217;t be mistaken for Swedes or Norwegians,  which is what most people think of when they&#8217;re thinking of light-skinned northern Europeans.  When I talk about &#8220;light-skinned&#8221; people, I&#8217;m talking about blond, blue-eyed people with light skin, or redheads with pale skin.</p>
	<p>If your definition of &#8220;light-skinned&#8221; includes Mediterranean people from southern Italy, Spain, or Greece then, yes, by your definition, the Inuit and similar peoples are &#8220;pretty light-skinned.&#8221;  When comparing them to other northern peoples like the Scandinavians, though, they&#8217;re distinctly darker.</p>
	<p>Please note that in this discussion of &#8220;light-skinned&#8221; and &#8220;dark-skinned,&#8221; I am <b><i>not</i> making any value judgement <i>whatsoever</i></b> on which color of skin is &#8220;better&#8221; to have, or if people with one skin color are &#8220;better&#8221; than another.  We&#8217;re talking about how humans adapted to the environments they found themselves in over the millions of years that we developed.  Nothing more.</p>
	<p>And you should probably let the <a href="http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/vitamind.asp" rel="nofollow">National Institutes of Health</a> know that they&#8217;re spreading misinformation when they advise dark-skinned people living in northern states to take vitamin D supplements.  I, too, would be interested in seeing journal articles refuting those studies.
</p>
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		<title>by: inge</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/27/todays-essentialism-smackdown/#comment-445762</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 08:16:21 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/27/todays-essentialism-smackdown/#comment-445762</guid>
					<description>Brad Jackson, &lt;i&gt;I’m fairly sure that I read somewhere that the whole vitamin D idea was rejected a while back.&lt;/i&gt;

Do you have a link to that? The paper I like to refer to was published in 2000, so it might well be out-dated, but I  haven't discovered anything newer on the topic in my usual reads. 
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Brad Jackson, <i>I’m fairly sure that I read somewhere that the whole vitamin D idea was rejected a while back.</i></p>
	<p>Do you have a link to that? The paper I like to refer to was published in 2000, so it might well be out-dated, but I  haven&#8217;t discovered anything newer on the topic in my usual reads.
</p>
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