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	<title>Comments on: If you haven&#8217;t seen this yet&#8230;.</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/26/if-you-havent-seen-this-yet/</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: junk science</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/26/if-you-havent-seen-this-yet/#comment-447104</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Sep 2007 06:53:05 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/26/if-you-havent-seen-this-yet/#comment-447104</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;To choose your father’s name is hardly striking a blow for feminism.&lt;/i&gt;

Why are you calling it &quot;your father's name&quot;? It's not his name. He got it from his father. He's using another man's name, and that man in turn isn't using his own name, but the name of another man, who also doesn't own that name, and so on and so fucking forth.

Or, maybe, when you have a name, &lt;i&gt;it's your name&lt;/i&gt;, and the silly arguments morons throw out to trip you up into admitting that taking your husband's name is no less feminist than keeping your own are a load of bullshit. 

Not that you haven't admitted that it's not perfectly fine and feminist to take your husband's last name; I'm just saying.

&lt;i&gt;The anti-feminism was her mother’s, who gave up her name, and agreed to use Marcotte for all her children. Identical to my wife’s anti-feminism.&lt;/i&gt;

Well, sure. But it's not like the name Marcotte is now tainted with the stink of anti-feminism and that Amanda has no right to use it and call herself a feminist. For her, it's nothing more or less than her own name.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>To choose your father’s name is hardly striking a blow for feminism.</i></p>
	<p>Why are you calling it &#8220;your father&#8217;s name&#8221;? It&#8217;s not his name. He got it from his father. He&#8217;s using another man&#8217;s name, and that man in turn isn&#8217;t using his own name, but the name of another man, who also doesn&#8217;t own that name, and so on and so fucking forth.</p>
	<p>Or, maybe, when you have a name, <i>it&#8217;s your name</i>, and the silly arguments morons throw out to trip you up into admitting that taking your husband&#8217;s name is no less feminist than keeping your own are a load of bullshit. </p>
	<p>Not that you haven&#8217;t admitted that it&#8217;s not perfectly fine and feminist to take your husband&#8217;s last name; I&#8217;m just saying.</p>
	<p><i>The anti-feminism was her mother’s, who gave up her name, and agreed to use Marcotte for all her children. Identical to my wife’s anti-feminism.</i></p>
	<p>Well, sure. But it&#8217;s not like the name Marcotte is now tainted with the stink of anti-feminism and that Amanda has no right to use it and call herself a feminist. For her, it&#8217;s nothing more or less than her own name.
</p>
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		<title>by: epistemology</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/26/if-you-havent-seen-this-yet/#comment-446711</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:35:49 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/26/if-you-havent-seen-this-yet/#comment-446711</guid>
					<description>Jesurgislac:
 &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;And you’ll quit trying to claim that women don’t ever have surnames of our own, too?&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
That's an unfair characterization of my argument. I have said &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;
I would certainly cut slack to Amanda, Val, or anyone else, and respect the name they wanted be called. To acknowledge each individual’s right to do so goes to basic human decency in my mind. I respect you enough to call you what you choose.
&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
But you are right. It is not anti-feminist on Amanda's part to use the name Marcotte. The anti-feminism was her mother's, who gave up her name, and agreed to use Marcotte for all her children. Identical to my wife's anti-feminism. Agreed?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Jesurgislac:</p>
	<blockquote><p><i>And you’ll quit trying to claim that women don’t ever have surnames of our own, too?</i></p></blockquote>
	<p>That&#8217;s an unfair characterization of my argument. I have said<br />
<blockquote><i><br />
I would certainly cut slack to Amanda, Val, or anyone else, and respect the name they wanted be called. To acknowledge each individual’s right to do so goes to basic human decency in my mind. I respect you enough to call you what you choose.<br />
</i></p></blockquote>
	<p>But you are right. It is not anti-feminist on Amanda&#8217;s part to use the name Marcotte. The anti-feminism was her mother&#8217;s, who gave up her name, and agreed to use Marcotte for all her children. Identical to my wife&#8217;s anti-feminism. Agreed?
</p>
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		<title>by: wayward</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/26/if-you-havent-seen-this-yet/#comment-446616</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:41:35 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/26/if-you-havent-seen-this-yet/#comment-446616</guid>
					<description>For those of you who are not from SC, Lexington, SC is small farming town that has become an affluent suburb of Columbia.

Politically, Lexington is the reddest town in the reddest county in one of the reddest states in the union.

And yes, the overwhelming majority of the population of Lexington County is dumb as shit. These are people with far more money than sense.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>For those of you who are not from SC, Lexington, SC is small farming town that has become an affluent suburb of Columbia.</p>
	<p>Politically, Lexington is the reddest town in the reddest county in one of the reddest states in the union.</p>
	<p>And yes, the overwhelming majority of the population of Lexington County is dumb as shit. These are people with far more money than sense.
</p>
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		<title>by: Jesurgislac</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/26/if-you-havent-seen-this-yet/#comment-446483</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 02:50:55 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/26/if-you-havent-seen-this-yet/#comment-446483</guid>
					<description>And you'll quit trying to claim that women don't ever have surnames of our own, too? Because that would be nice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>And you&#8217;ll quit trying to claim that women don&#8217;t ever have surnames of our own, too? Because that would be nice.
</p>
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		<title>by: epistemology</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/26/if-you-havent-seen-this-yet/#comment-446345</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:15:42 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/26/if-you-havent-seen-this-yet/#comment-446345</guid>
					<description>Marle, you're right, it wasn't feminist, it was personal, and thirty years ago. Thank you for your understanding. 

And I'm sorry I made invidious comparisons to Amanda's or other women's choices in this regard. I was being defensive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Marle, you&#8217;re right, it wasn&#8217;t feminist, it was personal, and thirty years ago. Thank you for your understanding. </p>
	<p>And I&#8217;m sorry I made invidious comparisons to Amanda&#8217;s or other women&#8217;s choices in this regard. I was being defensive.
</p>
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		<title>by: Marle</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/26/if-you-havent-seen-this-yet/#comment-446332</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:59:00 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/26/if-you-havent-seen-this-yet/#comment-446332</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Shut up about Val’s choice, or don’t use your maiden (even the name of the name is sexist) name. It is NO less patriarchal than Valerie’s.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I don't have a maiden name.  I have a name.  I never chose to give up my name for someone else's because of a sexist social convention.  The choice to give up your name for your husband's is not a feminist choice.  Don't get so defensive about it.  When I put on lipstick and heels, that's not a feminist act.  I deal with that fact.  I'm still a feminist.  Valerie could be a feminist too (I don't know if she is or not).  Most feminists have made many choices in their lives that were not feminist.  It's ok.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p>Shut up about Val’s choice, or don’t use your maiden (even the name of the name is sexist) name. It is NO less patriarchal than Valerie’s.</p></blockquote>
	<p>I don&#8217;t have a maiden name.  I have a name.  I never chose to give up my name for someone else&#8217;s because of a sexist social convention.  The choice to give up your name for your husband&#8217;s is not a feminist choice.  Don&#8217;t get so defensive about it.  When I put on lipstick and heels, that&#8217;s not a feminist act.  I deal with that fact.  I&#8217;m still a feminist.  Valerie could be a feminist too (I don&#8217;t know if she is or not).  Most feminists have made many choices in their lives that were not feminist.  It&#8217;s ok.
</p>
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		<title>by: epistemology</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/26/if-you-havent-seen-this-yet/#comment-446290</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:17:20 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/26/if-you-havent-seen-this-yet/#comment-446290</guid>
					<description>You're probably right, I'll shut up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>You&#8217;re probably right, I&#8217;ll shut up.
</p>
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		<title>by: rachel</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/26/if-you-havent-seen-this-yet/#comment-446269</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:50:40 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/26/if-you-havent-seen-this-yet/#comment-446269</guid>
					<description>you're an idiot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>you&#8217;re an idiot.
</p>
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		<title>by: epistemology</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/26/if-you-havent-seen-this-yet/#comment-446251</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:32:18 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/26/if-you-havent-seen-this-yet/#comment-446251</guid>
					<description>rachel:

You've misread me. I think Amanda has said she shares her father's last name, and has defended it. She is an adult. Her decision not to change it endorses the patriarchal naming system. 

I have said that of Val's decision, too. I just think that only women who have changed their names to something entirely outside this naming system, such as Muhammad Ali did with the name that our racist system bestowed on him, then they are no purer than anyone else.

Shorter epistemology:
Shut up about Val's choice, or don't use your maiden (even the name of the name is sexist) name. It is NO less patriarchal than Valerie's.

Seriously, Amanda is Amanda, like Madonna is Madonna. No stinking, sexist surname needed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>rachel:</p>
	<p>You&#8217;ve misread me. I think Amanda has said she shares her father&#8217;s last name, and has defended it. She is an adult. Her decision not to change it endorses the patriarchal naming system. </p>
	<p>I have said that of Val&#8217;s decision, too. I just think that only women who have changed their names to something entirely outside this naming system, such as Muhammad Ali did with the name that our racist system bestowed on him, then they are no purer than anyone else.</p>
	<p>Shorter epistemology:<br />
Shut up about Val&#8217;s choice, or don&#8217;t use your maiden (even the name of the name is sexist) name. It is NO less patriarchal than Valerie&#8217;s.</p>
	<p>Seriously, Amanda is Amanda, like Madonna is Madonna. No stinking, sexist surname needed.
</p>
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		<title>by: rachel</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/26/if-you-havent-seen-this-yet/#comment-446093</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 09:58:35 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/26/if-you-havent-seen-this-yet/#comment-446093</guid>
					<description>(my apologies amanda, for continuing to drag you and your name into this.  i don't mean to disrespect your parents or to assume you share your dad's last name.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>(my apologies amanda, for continuing to drag you and your name into this.  i don&#8217;t mean to disrespect your parents or to assume you share your dad&#8217;s last name.)
</p>
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