Comments on: When severe weather becomes a partisan issue http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/12/5878/ Just another WordPress weblog Mon, 09 Nov 2009 18:55:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.1-alpha by: greensmile http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/12/5878/#comment-441948 Wed, 15 Aug 2007 16:58:53 +0100 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/12/5878/#comment-441948 July 13 issue of <i>Science</i> has an article saying that while computer models that have predicted global warming with increasing accuracy for about the last two decades also predicted a relatively light increase in global totals of precipitation, the latest satellite data do not confirm the precipitation model...we are in fact getting MORE rain than predicted. That is no comfort to the western US which, in line with the model predictions, is drying out. Where we get rain, and when we get rain [e.g. hurricanes] we are getting a lot more rain. Mooney's "war on science" book was a real rallying cry for me. The lack of reception for scientifically informed opinions, let alone policies is killing us. Even Tom Friedman will tell you that. If Mooney's alarms reach outside the small world of Kos readers it can only help. Is that happening? July 13 issue of Science has an article saying that while computer models that have predicted global warming with increasing accuracy for about the last two decades also predicted a relatively light increase in global totals of precipitation, the latest satellite data do not confirm the precipitation model…we are in fact getting MORE rain than predicted. That is no comfort to the western US which, in line with the model predictions, is drying out. Where we get rain, and when we get rain [e.g. hurricanes] we are getting a lot more rain.

Mooney’s “war on science” book was a real rallying cry for me.

The lack of reception for scientifically informed opinions, let alone policies is killing us. Even Tom Friedman will tell you that.
If Mooney’s alarms reach outside the small world of Kos readers it can only help. Is that happening?

]]> by: Unstable Isotope http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/12/5878/#comment-441392 Mon, 13 Aug 2007 21:16:00 +0100 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/12/5878/#comment-441392 <a> link to the video of the science panel.</a> link to the video of the science panel.

]]> by: JimB http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/12/5878/#comment-441295 Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:42:46 +0100 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/12/5878/#comment-441295 I have always had a problem with the question “Do you believe in God”. The question(er) assumes God exists and is simply asking if you agree. The proper question to ask is “Do you believe that a God exists? By describing the opposition to the belief that man-made global warming is (will be) significant as “global warming deniers” is very similar. You have already assumed that significant global warming being man-made is fact. Watching the video linked above in my first post should quell that idea. It is ludicrous to call a theory involving immensely complex climatic events shaped by terrestrial and extraterrestrial variables a fact. I have always had a problem with the question “Do you believe in God”. The question(er) assumes God exists and is simply asking if you agree. The proper question to ask is “Do you believe that a God exists?

By describing the opposition to the belief that man-made global warming is (will be) significant as “global warming deniers” is very similar. You have already assumed that significant global warming being man-made is fact.

Watching the video linked above in my first post should quell that idea. It is ludicrous to call a theory involving immensely complex climatic events shaped by terrestrial and extraterrestrial variables a fact.

]]> by: rea http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/12/5878/#comment-441284 Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:09:19 +0100 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/12/5878/#comment-441284 <i>You do realize, of course, that I am never going to make it through this list before I die</i> Good thing, too--how sad would it be to run out of interesting books? You do realize, of course, that I am never going to make it through this list before I die

Good thing, too–how sad would it be to run out of interesting books?

]]> by: Elizabeth http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/12/5878/#comment-441174 Sun, 12 Aug 2007 20:18:04 +0100 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/12/5878/#comment-441174 I thought it was settled that global warming will increase the intensity of hurricanes, but the debate was about if it will increase the frequency of hurricanes. I'll just have to read the book. I thought it was settled that global warming will increase the intensity of hurricanes, but the debate was about if it will increase the frequency of hurricanes. I’ll just have to read the book.

]]> by: Armagh444 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/12/5878/#comment-441145 Sun, 12 Aug 2007 15:51:10 +0100 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/12/5878/#comment-441145 :::adds another book to her "to read" list::: You do realize, of course, that I am <i>never</i> going to make it through this list before I die if you keep posting about interesting books. :::adds another book to her “to read” list:::

You do realize, of course, that I am never going to make it through this list before I die if you keep posting about interesting books.

]]> by: Coin http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/12/5878/#comment-441133 Sun, 12 Aug 2007 14:50:49 +0100 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/12/5878/#comment-441133 "The Intersection" is actually just Chris Mooney's page at scienceblogs.com, which is a semi-integrated group blog with some really fantastic and well-organized content. Several of the yearlykos science panel attendees actually blog there. If you're sorry you missed the panel then it might be worth it to check out the individual bloggers' blogs sometime. “The Intersection” is actually just Chris Mooney’s page at scienceblogs.com, which is a semi-integrated group blog with some really fantastic and well-organized content. Several of the yearlykos science panel attendees actually blog there. If you’re sorry you missed the panel then it might be worth it to check out the individual bloggers’ blogs sometime.

]]> by: togolosh http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/12/5878/#comment-441127 Sun, 12 Aug 2007 14:40:40 +0100 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/12/5878/#comment-441127 A point of clarification: Hurricanes draw their energy from the temperature *difference* between the ocean and the atmosphere. It's the difference in temperature that's important, not just the temperature alone. If the atmosphere heats up more than the ocean surface, we ought to see a lessening of hurricane intensity, not an increase. Conversely, if the ocean heats up more than the atmosphere, we'll see an increase in number and intensity. The basic principle here is that heat flows are driven by temperature differences, and flow of energy through a system tends to create organized structures. In this case it's hurricanes. Another interesting case is the flow of energy from the sun, into the earth, and subsequent re-radiation into space. The canard about the second law of thermodynamics (essentially that a closed system tends towards greater disorder) that anti-evolutionists raise is exactly backwards. Since the earth is an open system with energy flowing through it, we ought to (and do) see a tendency towards organized structures, in other words, greater order. In our case this means large scale ordered structures like hurricanes and ocean currents, and small scale highly ordered structures like living organisms. A point of clarification: Hurricanes draw their energy from the temperature *difference* between the ocean and the atmosphere. It’s the difference in temperature that’s important, not just the temperature alone. If the atmosphere heats up more than the ocean surface, we ought to see a lessening of hurricane intensity, not an increase. Conversely, if the ocean heats up more than the atmosphere, we’ll see an increase in number and intensity.

The basic principle here is that heat flows are driven by temperature differences, and flow of energy through a system tends to create organized structures. In this case it’s hurricanes. Another interesting case is the flow of energy from the sun, into the earth, and subsequent re-radiation into space. The canard about the second law of thermodynamics (essentially that a closed system tends towards greater disorder) that anti-evolutionists raise is exactly backwards. Since the earth is an open system with energy flowing through it, we ought to (and do) see a tendency towards organized structures, in other words, greater order. In our case this means large scale ordered structures like hurricanes and ocean currents, and small scale highly ordered structures like living organisms.

]]> by: Amanda Marcotte http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/12/5878/#comment-441103 Sun, 12 Aug 2007 12:44:07 +0100 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/12/5878/#comment-441103 It's frustrating because denialists won't even be consistent. They're just interested in throwing whatever-you-need-to-hear-to-ignore-the-problem. Within the space of arguing with your average denialist, you'll hear both that global warming isn't real and that it won't be that bad anyway. One of the saddest parts of the book is when Gray is out there shilling for Inhofe. He started off as a genuine skeptic, mostly against computer modeling, and over time he's turned into a shill for the right, buddying up to people who hate science in the abstract, all because he can't face up to the fact that he's probably wrong about global warming. It’s frustrating because denialists won’t even be consistent. They’re just interested in throwing whatever-you-need-to-hear-to-ignore-the-problem. Within the space of arguing with your average denialist, you’ll hear both that global warming isn’t real and that it won’t be that bad anyway.

One of the saddest parts of the book is when Gray is out there shilling for Inhofe. He started off as a genuine skeptic, mostly against computer modeling, and over time he’s turned into a shill for the right, buddying up to people who hate science in the abstract, all because he can’t face up to the fact that he’s probably wrong about global warming.

]]> by: has_te http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/12/5878/#comment-441099 Sun, 12 Aug 2007 12:35:45 +0100 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/08/12/5878/#comment-441099 From a quick read I took it that Gray was the protagonist in a modern [fictional] Tragedy... But the poor schmuck's real. How sad. (y'know...I cannot ever get the anti-spam scribble to work. lots of tries, lots of mods Disincentive) From a quick read I took it that Gray
was the protagonist in a modern [fictional] Tragedy…
But the poor schmuck’s real.
How sad.

(y’know…I cannot ever get the anti-spam scribble
to work. lots of tries, lots of mods
Disincentive)

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