Many queer whites are deeply in denial in how AIDS still looms over gay, white men. Part of the reason that HIV in the African-American community is getting the short shrift is that the white queer community is looking away from an elephant in that living room.

Wait a minute.

If DOMA was repealed, and every state in the Union had to recognize same-sex marriages held in MA…

1. Two bus tickets to Boston, a licensing fee, and a few nights in a hostel buys you all of the rights of marriage

2. Seeing all of that gay wedding money going out of state convinces lawmakers in an increasing number of states to redefine the regulations for marriage licenses.

3. Considering that the federal definition of marriage is now open for debate, lawsuits are filed when same-sex married couples want to file joint tax returns, joint bankruptcies, etc.

4. Congress could either pass laws reforming the tax, bankruptcy, immigration… (ad nauseum) codes, or punt the issue. If they punt the issue, the final word depends on what Anthony Kennedy has for breakfast one morning in 2019.

In most of the (presumedly predominately white) liberal spaces I visit online, there is a very fuzzy line when it comes to dealing with issues in minority communities. I wouldn’t want to stick my nose in it trying to do something good only to make things worse by coming off as a white girl trying to tell the people of color how to live.

How would one approach this respectfully, so as not to do more harm than good?
/
Realistically, I’m pretty hostile to religious belief (I think we’ve establishd that). Do we really want me confronting homophobic pastors?

I understand the problem Pam and Bil Browning are trying to describe here (that lbgt persons of color are not really getting support from either the gay rights or minority communities). And though I’m not sure that I would have noticed it on my own, once it’s pointed out it is surprisingly clear that the section of the lgbt community being directly represented by the public face of “gay rights” is surprisingly limited at times. If there’s something I could do about these problems I’d be happy to. But I’m not really sure what that something would be.

I feel kind of lost on the whole “homophobia in black churches” thing. Being personally neither a member of the black community nor any religious community, I kind of doubt there’s much I can do there.

I am a bit more curious about whether there’s something I can do (even if only in my own limited personal way) to help things by changing my own approach to gay rights issues. The two examples I saw given here as things the gay rights community could be doing differently were doing more to explicitly include minorities in the gay rights community, and increasing (or bringing back, I suppose really) the focus on AIDS. Anything else?

Overall, Pam seems to be asking people be more willing to “meddle”. I think there are in fact people who would be willing to do that if they had a better idea of what exactly that would mean and how to do it without it being counterproductive…

I haven’t watched all of it, but one thing that stood out to me– both in the questionnaire and the video– is that Obama (and, now that I look, also Edwards!) are actually opposed to the DOMA. This seems like a big deal to me– it seems Obama and Edwards have potentially just differentiated themselves from the other candidates in a significant, positive, and frankly risky way. Clinton, on the other hand, apparently actually specifically endorsed that section of the DOMA that gives states veto power over the marriages issued by other states.

Did this stand out to anyone except me, do you think this is going to attract any widespread notice?

Still, I have to agree with felagund that “If the “white” Giblets community were to get involved in telling off the black churches for their homophobia, they would of course be painted as meddling in the black community’s affairs. And it would be counterproductive, as black churchgoers who aren’t paying attention will see it as meddling white people.”.

The God of Biscuits has a great point, but it’s specific to an individual. Jeff has worked to gain trust, but white strangers speaking from a distance are just not going to be well received by church members. Especially strangers who want to talk about changing chuch attitudes toward homosexuality.

Indirectly, Jeff makes a different point that may be the most important one in the thread. The church is not going to change. African-American churchs or Roman Catholic, they aren’t going to change. And our churches are withering on the vine for their lack of action on other important issues. I don’t think they are a useful venue; they value their homophobia.

Because you can get direct quotes from the principals there. Check out my liveblog post and post-forum post.

Bisexuals, Intersexed, Transitioning, Curious, Homosexuals and Earnest Supporters. BITCHES
Pronounceable, easily remembered, includes most (although Queer can include Polyamorous and I didn’t work that in.)… and offensive.

As for the matter of homophobia in the black churches, the greater liberal community, as it were, needs to at least be inclusive and supportive of minority gays. Maybe the answer isn’t to confront the churches that much (white priveledge is not going to win friends), but to make sure there are groups in every community that can help and support those coming out and that everyone knows they are welcome there. It’s easier to risk standing in one community ( a church, a family), if there’s somewhere else that they can go to for help and friendship.

Realistically, I’m pretty hostile to religious belief (I think we’ve establishd that). Do we really want me confronting homophobic pastors? I’m as likely to tell them to shove their fairy tales up their asses as anything. And that’s because, as Marcus Brigstocke said so well, “I’m sick of religious people screwing it up for the rest of us.” I’ll confront homophobia, but I, the radical white queer, am probably not someone we want approaching the the homophobic assholes in Boston’s Black Ministerial Alliance (just like you probably don’t want me confronting people like that worthless bigot Cardinal O’Malley).

In the classroom, it’s a different story. I draw connections and do things pretty damned well. Hell, there were more black folks in my Mass Media in Queer America class than white folks, and the majority of the black folks were straight. And that’s because I’ve developed a reputation among the students of color on campus of “getting it.” And that’s something I’m proud of.

It’s not just a matter of fighting homophobia where ever it occurs, but also where you’re/I’m going to be most effective. My response to queers in the black churches, hell in any churches that don’t accept them, is “get the hell out” and that’s not going to be terribly effective. I can be quite skilled and shaping messages for different audiences, but I simply don’t care about religious audiences in the least.

The queer community is a decisive electoral force that politicians have learned over the years, for their own campaign survival, that they must at least wink at.

What?!

2-3% of the population… That overwhelmingly already votes “Democrat”- and already “out-votes” the ‘hetero-sex’ population- is ’suddenly’ going to be “decisive” in an election?

Ron Paul- 2008!*

*(Hint): This is “irony”–

I am a Ron Paul ‘libertarian’ (we usually only get about 0.5% of the votes- and we also like to talk about how ‘decisive’ we could be…

See ya in 2012…