Not for me, but for a blogger whose privacy is being violated on the internet.
Ballastexistenz has a post up about a fellow female blogger in the autistic community who has had compromising pictures of her posted on the internet by a guy she’s had a running dispute with.
This blogger has not given any consent to post these pictures.
If anyone can provide some sort of legal or (strategic but legal) advice to Ballastexistenz’s blog, please do.
Note: Any posts about the actual dispute will be deleted–as I said above, I don’t care how “bad” the blogger was (and I doubt it very much), it’s beyond the pale to pull this crap.
57 Responses to “Urgent–support and legal advice needed”
Leave a comment
Line and paragraph breaks automatic, e-mail address never displayed, HTML allowed: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <code> <em> <i> <strike> <strong>
“You could start by not having pictures taken in those circumstances.”
Pinky, as the mother of an autisitic daughter- FUCK YOU.
The photos are illegal and the proper venue for this guy’s financial complaints are the courts…in which he is sure to lose after pulling this stunt…and in which this is obviously going to end.
If she has his personal info (address, etc.) then she has fodder for a restraining order, the violation of which would result in criminal charges to go along with any civil action. Aside from that I don’t know what else she could do but get a lawyer and sue; there are attorneys who will work solely in order to claim a percentage.
Ok, let me restate, putting the photos online without the express consent of the photographed is illegal.
no, you couldn’t, because the pictures were already taken and unfortunately there is no such thing as a time machine.
unhelpful and cruel. fuck off.
She was (a) heavily drugged, (b) having frequent seizures (going to status epilepticus often), and (c) life-threateningly ill from adrenal failure at the time these pictures were taken (all of which added up to massively impaired thinking), not to mention being coerced in a number of other ways. And he was her primary caregiver and her adoptive father, and tried to claim this was a way of “healing” her.
Anyone who says “She shouldn’t have gotten into this situation…” well louise said it before me and she said it better than anything I can come up with. She had nowhere to go at the time and wasn’t in any condition to make decisions or get anywhere. Someone got her out of there when it was finally possible. By then the pictures already existed.
I got a post to my blog along the lines that she shouldn’t have gotten into this situation in the first place (it even said no “real feminist” would ever possibly end up in that situation, as if (a) “real feminists” are invincible and (b) one has to be a feminist for rape and exploitation of sexual photographs to be wrong), and deleted it, that sort of crap has no place in this discussion.
But, okay, even if she somehow had just gotten herself into a situation she could’ve avoided, that’d be no excuse whatsoever, and, yeah, cruel and pointless remark either way.
Wow. Quite a first comment. Looks like louise and lily cain have already got it covered…
An attorney can only give legal advice to your friend if s/he is licensed her state.
I am licensed in Michigan and Ohio.
Contacting the host site (blogspot) might help. Blogspot also has a “flag this post” button you can use to bring abuse to the attention of the site admins. I went to the site and hit the button, which you can do by cutting and pasting the URL in the post Sheelz links to above. C ‘n P avoids giving the post googlejuice.
You could start by not having pictures taken in those circumstances.
Given that she says she was raped, this is an especially cruel and unhelpful comment. I’d like to join with Louise in offering up a warm, steaming helping of FUCK YOU.
She needs to consult with a good lawyer.
If she needs help affording one, I’m sure there’s folks around here who would be willing to send some money her way. Donations to help people in the community out with crises have been collected before.
What a coincidence - so do you!
I actually felt really awful being so damned rude to a complete stranger. This story made me so sick to my stomach. Pinky, please try to understand why your knee-jerk reaction caused such a strong response and learn from your mistake.
The “man” here, Jerod, is 45 and twice the age of his victim. Oh, and she was also an ex-employee of his. That’s BEFORE the fact that she is on the autism spectrum and before some of the rape allegations, etc. He is just a complete scumbag.
If this had been my daughter who found herself in this predicament, I would have already be in jail for my response to the prick’s behavior. And he would be in pieces.
http://jerquedujour.blogspot.com/2007/08/weve-been-trying-to-de-escalate-this.html
From K’s roommate. I’m still seeing red.
louse - I actually felt really awful being so damned rude to a complete stranger.
I think most people commenting on blogs realize that every now and then they’ll get a rough reply. I think your followup was quite sensitive, and I hope it’s taken in the spirit you intend.
There’s an interesting conversation to be had about privacy and best practices when entrusting potentially embarassing information to people, a conversation I’d be very interested in having. Not now, though.
This looks very much like a case where a guy is upset that his ‘girlfriend’ didn’t stay bought after he invested so much money in her. If a legal defense fund is started up I’ll gladly chip in - the behavior here is clearly over the line, and we’d all benefit from a legal precedent that recognized that fact.
Respectfully, discussion of why Pinky and/or Jarod are assholes is wholly unproductive. Whether Pinky intends to troll or not, you can see how such behavior detracts from the purpose of the thread.
So let’s leave the Ten Minute Hate for tomorrow. Something is wrong if only 3 of 15 comments so far attempt to help the person in question.
Ed Brayton of Dispatches from the Culture Wars is always discussing law. ebrayton@crystalauto.com
You can get this blogger good support and exposure by asking the team at Volokh.
Pinky, you’d undoubtedly be surprised at how many people (and what sort) have such pictures, and rely on other people not being assholes and violating their trust.
Not only should legal action be taken against this guy, but folks should continue expressing that this is not acceptable, ever. We need to change a culture in which this sort of thing is regarded as “appropriate revenge.”
You could start by not having pictures taken in those circumstances.
If they are his ‘property’ you probably have less standing I’d think.
Setting aside the fact that the foregoing is obnoxious, let me point out also that it’s completely wrong as a matter of law. This is true even apart for all the concerns about whether she really consented to sex, or was capable of consenting to sex–there doesn’t seem to be any support for a contention that she consented to have sexually explicit pictures of herself posted on the internet
There are four distinct “invasion of privacy” torts recognized in most jurisdictions:
“(1) intrusion on plaintiff’s seclusion or solitude, or into his private affairs, (2) public disclosure of embarrassing private facts about the plaintiff, (3) publicity which places plaintiff in a false light in the public eye and (4) appropriation, for defendant’s advantage, of plaintiff’s name or likeness” [Quote from a Prosser treatise, borrowed from an old brief of mine].
This appears to be a clear-cut example of (2).
She needs to speak to a local attorney ASAP. I’m only licensed in Michigan, and can’t absolutely guaranty that the law is the same in whatever jurisdiction she lives in. Please consider all of the standard disclaimers about me not hereby agreeing to represent her as having been made.
I am less concerned with the pictures being posted (which is an easy fix by contacting blogger) than with the other accusations, which include a rape allegation against the offending poster by Kassi herself. Obviously the shit is flying from both sides and is sorta uncontrolled right now.
What I would say to Kassi’s friends is to find a free lawyer and take this stuff offline immediately. It’s only going to make things worse and it’s not going to help Kassi at all. They need an attorney, not a bunch of bloggers attacking this guy, regardless of how much he deserves it.
All this stuff is going to do is make it harder for Kassi to find justice, period. It’s tainting her side of the story. You’re much better off letting the dude just blow up in any way he wants and taking the high road through proper channels. I’m afraid this is going to make the situation worse, not better.
So ballas, get on the phone to an attorney and get rid of this stuff if you really want to help this girl.
I would suggest that Kassi’s friends look to see if there are any lawyers in the neighborhood who do pro bono work.
The first thing I did after this was get on the phone to my own (pro bono) attorney, who was too busy to do much more than refer Kassi to some local cheap-lawyer sorts of services. The point of posting it on a blog was to get the sort of people who could help her, including possibly attorneys who work for the feminist community that I don’t have enough ties in to find on my own pointed at what’s going on. I am extremely limited in my own resources (can rarely leave the house for health reasons, very limited income, have one person I see regularly offline besides support staff, which is a step up from my previous zero until I moved to live near one) and this is what I can do to find someone an attorney, it’s not like I carry attorneys in my pockets. Posting on the web about it was a way to find such people, if you don’t like that then perhaps you can provide me all the massive amounts of financial resources and social connections offline that I too lack for disability-related reasons and then maybe I won’t need to do things like this. Until then don’t fault me for using the resources I do have, especially when it creates results.
I have zero patience today. Here’s an addendum to my first note: if you start the shit about how Kassianne shouldn’t have had the photos taken of her, STFU and leave. Don’t bring that here. First of all, plenty of people do that consensually and have every right to expect that their privacy will be respected. Second, she says it was not consensual.
Do not bring that here. I don’t care if you’re my best friend since high school, I will bunny you.
Ballast - Perhaps Kassi should contact Working to Halt Online Abuse to talk to a volunteer. They look like they might be a useful resource.
This kind of assholery is common enough that there are probably people out there with useful lessons learned they’d be willing to share.
Leaving aside any opinion as to the merits of the dispute at hand (and I must say that none of the participants come off sounding very good) and focusing just on the legal aspects I’d have to say that while her chances in an invasion of privacy suite are decent the likelihood of being able to prove damages are pretty small.
Without damages there isn’t much point in trying to persue this in the courts. That said the culture in which this sort of slut shaming is seen as a valid tactic by people is truly sick.
Ballas, I feel you and where you’re coming from. There’s not a lawyer tree out there from which to pluck low-hanging fruit. Here’s what I suggest.
First off, Kassi should report the alleged rape to law enforcement if she hasn’t already. A criminal proceeding will go a long way to adding legitimacy to a civil action and will undoubtedly make pro bono attorneys more interested in the case. From my perspective, just reading through the links above and on the linked sites, this looks like a simple domestic dispute between two people of limited mental faculties. I’d be hard-pressed to find an attorney who would wade into that morass without a concurrent criminal proceeding. My honest opinion is that a criminal case wouldn’t go very far, but at least it would be on the record.
Second, I might be able to find a lawyer who could help you, but I need to know a.) where you and Kassi are, and b.) where the perp lives. Any civil action will have to be filed in the latter jurisdiction.
I’m not one of the people harmed by this directly, I’m just passing the word on for Kassi (who, although this is probably irrelevant information, I’ve known longer than most people involved in this dispute have, and I consider a friend). Kassi lives in Washington (state). I live in Vermont. The perp lives in Montana. I don’t know whether the photographs took place in Montana or Illinois.
And I’m not sure where limited mental faculties come in, except that there’s a lot of prejudice towards the credibility people with psych and developmental labels (which they’ve both got both of, and they’re both using each other’s labels against each other), and that Kassi’s mental faculties were too limited for consent during the rape (which is the only part I start seeing that as relevant to) due to physical illness and medications.
Oh I just realized you might have confused me with Daniel, who’s her current roommate and the guy who got her out of there. I’m not Daniel.
Ballas, sorry to be so blunt about the “limited mental faculties” thing, but I’m just trying to give you an idea about how a lawyer would view this, knowing only what I know from outside the situation. I talked with a few of my colleagues who are lawyers, and none said they’d touch it. Their reasons were many, but primarily boiled down to the following:
1. mental state of both parties…both already appear to suffer from mood or personality disorders, both take (sometimes powerful) drugs to help correct those disorders, Kassi is said to be “self-diagnosed” (don’t know if that’s true, but if it is it’s significant), and there are very real questions of competency.
2. rape accusation on the Internet unaccompanied by criminal case…a month before Poole posts the pictures, Kassi claimed that he raped her and that the photographs in fact were taken during the crime. things quickly escalated from there, it would seem, culminating in Poole’s actually posting the pictures. Meanwhile, there’s nothing to suggest that Kassi reported this crime, despite the fact that Poole retains photographic evidence of it. I’d be amazed if there weren’t other pictures as well, which presumably would back up Kassi’s claims. My colleagues expressed surprise that Kassi would publicly accuse Poole of rape on the Internet but not file a police report.
These aren’t necessarily germane to the core issue, which is merely to get the photos removed from Poole’s blog, but they did make Kassi a less-sympathetic client, especially for a pro bono matter. And the sad truth is that pro bono work is difficult to swing for a lot of attorneys, so they tend to pick the cases and clients that resonate with them.
I’m not trying to discourage you, but you should know what you’d be up against in trying to persuade any attorney worth her salt to pick this up.
At any rate, I’ll see what I can do to find someone up in Montana who might be interested. Check back in this thread in a day or two and hopefully I’ll have something.
Ballas, sorry to be so blunt about the “limited mental faculties” thing, but I’m just trying to give you an idea about how a lawyer would view this, knowing only what I know from outside the situation. I talked with a few of my colleagues who are lawyers, and none said they’d touch it. Their reasons were many, but primarily boiled down to the following:
1. mental state of both parties…both already appear to suffer from mood or personality disorders, both take (sometimes powerful) drugs to help correct those disorders, Kassi is said to be “self-diagnosed” (don’t know if that’s true, but if it is it’s significant), and there are very real questions of competency.
2. rape accusation on the Internet unaccompanied by criminal case…a month before Poole posts the pictures, Kassi claimed that he raped her and that the photographs in fact were taken during the crime. things quickly escalated from there, it would seem, culminating in Poole’s actually posting the pictures. Meanwhile, there’s nothing to suggest that Kassi reported this crime, despite the fact that Poole retains photographic evidence of it. I’d be amazed if there weren’t other pictures as well, which presumably would back up Kassi’s claims. My colleagues expressed surprise that Kassi would publicly accuse Poole of rape on the Internet but not file a police report.
These aren’t necessarily germane to the core issue, which is merely to get the photos removed from Poole’s blog, but they did make Kassi a less-sympathetic client, especially for a pro bono matter. And the sad truth is that pro bono work is difficult to swing for a lot of attorneys, so they tend to pick the cases and clients that resonate with them.
I’m not trying to discourage you, but you should know what you’d be up against in trying to persuade any attorney worth her salt to pick this up.
At any rate, I’ll see what I can do to find someone up in Montana who might be interested. Check back in this thread in a day or two and hopefully I’ll have something.
Ballas, sorry to be so blunt about the “limited mental faculties” thing, but I’m just trying to give you an idea about how a lawyer would view this, knowing only what I know from outside the situation. I talked with a few of my colleagues who are lawyers, and none said they’d touch it. Their reasons were many, but primarily boiled down to the following:
1. mental state of both parties…both already appear to suffer from mood or personality disorders, both take (sometimes powerful) drugs to help correct those disorders, Kassi is said to be “self-diagnosed” (don’t know if that’s true, but if it is it’s significant), and there are very real questions of competency.
2. rape accusation on the Internet unaccompanied by criminal case…a month before Poole posts the pictures, Kassi claimed that he raped her and that the photographs in fact were taken during the crime. things quickly escalated from there, it would seem, culminating in Poole’s actually posting the pictures. Meanwhile, there’s nothing to suggest that Kassi reported this crime, despite the fact that Poole retains photographic evidence of it. I’d be amazed if there weren’t other pictures as well, which presumably would back up Kassi’s claims. My colleagues expressed surprise that Kassi would publicly accuse Poole of rape on the Internet but not file a police report.
These aren’t necessarily germane to the core issue, which is merely to get the photos removed from Poole’s blog, but they did make Kassi a less-sympathetic client, especially for a pro bono matter. And the sad truth is that pro bono work is difficult to swing for a lot of attorneys, so they tend to pick the cases and clients that resonate with them.
I’m not trying to discourage you, but you should know what you’d be up against in trying to persuade any attorney worth her salt to pick this up.
At any rate, I’ll see what I can do to find someone up in Montana who might be interested. Check back in this thread in a day or two and hopefully I’ll have something.
Ballas, sorry to be so blunt about the “limited mental faculties” thing, but I’m just trying to give you an idea about how a lawyer would view this, knowing only what I know from outside the situation. I talked with a few of my colleagues who are lawyers, and none said they’d touch it. Their reasons were many, but primarily boiled down to the following:
1. mental state of both parties…both already appear to suffer from mood or personality disorders, both take (sometimes powerful) drugs to help correct those disorders, Kassi is said to be “self-diagnosed” (don’t know if that’s true, but if it is it’s significant), and there are very real questions of competency.
2. rape accusation on the Internet unaccompanied by criminal case…a month before Poole posts the pictures, Kassi claimed that he raped her and that the photographs in fact were taken during the crime. things quickly escalated from there, it would seem, culminating in Poole’s actually posting the pictures. Meanwhile, there’s nothing to suggest that Kassi reported this crime, despite the fact that Poole retains photographic evidence of it. I’d be amazed if there weren’t other pictures as well, which presumably would back up Kassi’s claims. My colleagues expressed surprise that Kassi would publicly accuse Poole of rape on the Internet but not file a police report.
These aren’t necessarily germane to the core issue, which is merely to get the photos removed from Poole’s blog, but they did make Kassi a less-sympathetic client, especially for a pro bono matter. And the sad truth is that pro bono work is difficult to swing for a lot of attorneys, so they tend to pick the cases and clients that resonate with them.
I’m not trying to discourage you, but you should know what you’d be up against in trying to persuade any attorney worth her salt to pick this up.
At any rate, I’ll see what I can do to find someone up in Montana who might be interested. Check back in this thread in a day or two and hopefully I’ll have something.
The “don’t take pictures like that” crap is just more tedious prudery. If she voluntarily took those pictures, so what? Do you hate sex? You hate people having fun and think they should be punished for having private, harmless sexual hijinks with the camera?
oops triple post this new comment system has me a bit confused…sorry guys
As far as I know, she did report some of this to the authorities, with varying degrees of responsiveness for each part.
If that’s the case, then she should also alert those same authorities to the recent developments regarding Poole’s harassing photographs.
Sheelzebub–
Night of the Lepus FTW!
Best. Bunnying. Ever.
These aren’t necessarily germane to the core issue, which is merely to get the photos removed from Poole’s blog, but they did make Kassi a less-sympathetic client, especially for a pro bono matter.
You must be new to this. Having a vagina is what makes her a less-sympathetic client in a rape case.
OK, I don’t know the woman in question. I have worked with plenty of people that advocate for medical causes that aren’t afflicted with the condition.
If any of what I quoted above is true then there definitely should be grounds to stop the publication of the pictures AND the person should be stopped from ever doing it again.
What came into my mind, for some reason, was the story of a few years ago when the teacher had borrowed the schools video camera for a weekend and taped her and her boyfriend ‘getting it on’. She forgot the tape and you can imagine the shock in the kids faces when they used the tape, rewound, to record something and then let the tape run past their part of the tape…
She was psychologically raped, at the least. If that was my daughter I’d be at the guys house, kicking the door down and beating his diseased ass.
N ot having the background, I figured it was like the Pam Anderson/Tommy Lee picture mess from a few years back.
I liked the rabbits though. Sorry to have pissed so many off. I’m really not the asshole that people seem to think I am, here…
Or, maybe I am and just don’t know it. Obviously I’m not a good person to comment here for some reason. I’ve always been very supportive of woman’s rights and human rights too.
Sorry…
OK, I don’t know the woman in question. I have worked with plenty of people that advocate for medical causes that aren’t afflicted with the condition.
If any of what I quoted above is true then there definitely should be grounds to stop the publication of the pictures AND the person should be stopped from ever doing it again.
What came into my mind, for some reason, was the story of a few years ago when the teacher had borrowed the schools video camera for a weekend and taped her and her boyfriend ‘getting it on’. She forgot the tape and you can imagine the shock in the kids faces when they used the tape, rewound, to record something and then let the tape run past their part of the tape…
She was psychologically raped, at the least. If that was my daughter I’d be at the guys house, kicking the door down and beating his diseased ass.
N ot having the background, I figured it was like the Pam Anderson/Tommy Lee picture mess from a few years back.
I liked the rabbits though. Sorry to have pissed so many off. I’m really not the asshole that people seem to think I am, here…
Or, maybe I am and just don’t know it. Obviously I’m not a good person to comment here for some reason. I’ve always been very supportive of woman’s rights and human rights too.
Sorry…
If that was my daughter I’d be at the guys house, kicking the door down and beating his diseased ass.
It took me a very long time to realize what I’m about to tell you, so please take heed and save yourself a few years.
Your pledge to defend the vaginal freshness seal of the various women under your control with violence if necessary isn’t a strong indicator of your support for feminism. In fact it’s a strong counter-indicator. I mean, come the fuck on, Pinky. Even the right-wing antifeminists who do all they can to block women’s rights make chest-thomping pledges about killing their daughter’s rapist.
The reason that people don’t think of you as being pro-woman is because you’re not pro-woman, if you view women as being yours, and as having some kind of sexual purity that you have to defend by force of arms. You know, like a farmer defending his livestock.
If your daughter is ever raped, and obviously I hope that she is not, then your place is doing what you can do to console her, counsel her, get her help, get the police involved, aid the investigation, and help her deal with the bullshit of a rape trial (which is much like being raped all over again, I’m led to understand.)
Not launching off on a vendetta that ultimately lands you in jail and makes her think that, if only she’d kept her mouth shut, her daddy would still be around and a man (probably someone she knew) wouldn’t be dead.
In fact your constant proclamations of killing putative rapists are far more likely to ensure that your daughter never tells you if she’s been raped.
What I’m saying is - proclaiming a course of action that’s far more about what you’re feeling, about what’s been done to your women, than about what would be helpful and consoling to a victim of rape you claim to care about, isn’t feminist. It’s why we don’t think you are one. It’s why you say things like the ridiculous bullshit you opened this thread with - you don’t support equality of women. You say that you do, but your attitudes and speech - and probably your actions - simply don’t reflect that.
i’m sure this comment will just get yanked, and i’m not condoning the photos, but trust me, this is a three-year-long fucking internet nightmare and getting involved is not something anyone on this thread wants to do. there have been multiple lawsuits threatened on both sides, personal information (including licence plates, addresses, employer information, and phone numbers, sometimes information belonging to people NOT EVEN INVOLVED IN THE VARIOUS DISPUTES. not to mention — again, on both sides — accusations of mental and physical abuse, violence, threats, arrests and jesus knows what else thrown all over the internet.
just know that the situation is fucked up, probably beyond repair. and know that, by linking, you’ve just ensured a hell of a lot more traffic directing toward those photos, which were, prior to being linked, not really likely to be seen. by anyone. ever. and know that you’ve really just stepped in a massive pile of steaming shit.
I don’t care about the dispute. I don’t care about how bad it got on both sides. Contrary to your assertion, I have not linked to the blog that has posted the photos and will not. Someone, however, did post these photos and violated her privacy.
I put this post up not to get people to bash him or to start a blog war, but because Ballastexistenz asked for legal advice/support/resources. Any legal advice (or names of resources) would be much appreciated I’m sure. I am not interested in hearing anything about how he’s a jerk (yep, he is for posting those pics) or how awful she is (I don’t care, it doesn’t excuse posting up the photos).
Again–Ballastexistenz asked for legal advice/support/resources to get the photos down.
Thanks, Chet. I don’t ‘own’ women but maybe it’s my conservative side or the parental side or maybe the idea that I find paying a lawyer to defend her from this animal being like getting raped all over again.
In the ‘old days’, the parents would deal with this. Now, everybody reaches for a lawyer and if you lawyer is slimier than mine, you ‘win’.
Who knows ‘the truth’ in that mess. I doubt that the people involved do anymore according to kidlacan.
But you may be right.
A somewhat related example. My wife has been harassed by a juvenile and sick co-worker for years. I kinda put 2 and 2 together and confronted her about it. No woman should have to work under those conditions. She wants to deal with it in her own way. I admire that but in the mean time, it’s killing parts of her. The guy is friends with their boss. I met the jerk at a party and asked him how he would feel if someone treated his wife or daughter the way he is treating my wife. He said ‘it’s all in good fun’ but I pointed out that if he was laughing AT her, someone wasn’t having any ‘fun’. He backed down some. She was furious and we had a long talk. I felt that what I did was ‘right’ and I didn’t threaten the jerk or even raise my voice.
In this magnificent economy that we have been placed, how does someone defend themselves from lecherous perversion at the workplace? She can’t just quit. She’s worried of being fired. I’d like to take the guy in an ally and beat some sense into his pig brain. You want to talk about violation. She feels violated every time she works with him. But what to do. Gee, let’s call a lawyer…
I don’t ‘own’ my wife but I feel it’s part of the contract to defend my family. Am I wrong? Defending your wife’s honor used to be a good thing. Defending your family from outside nasty people used to be a good thing. The father of that daughter should have the right to go to that jerk and demand that the pictures be removed and that the remaining pictures be destroyed. THAT was what I was getting at. Nothing is likely to stop him. Maybe a confrontation with her dad or guardian outside of court might do it.
I’m done here. I thought I’d fit but obviously I’m not and while I enjoy being the whipping boy sometimes because I’ve learned that in some areas I’m not what I thought I was, I am getting tired of being beaten down for nearly everything that I say.
I lasted just over 24 hours on the ‘free’ republic site before I was blocked. People rail about the mean attitudes of the rabid right. That they walk around with blinders and clubs. Uh huh…
I came here for my general distrust of religious ‘leaders’ and their brainless followers. Whatever…
I felt bad that 2 women were ejected from a candidates team because the had the guts to ask ‘why’, to point out the missing clothes on the emperor. Keep up that fight!
Actually Pinky, I do understand what you phrase as a contract to support your family. In mine, my husband would be the one to calm down and think clearer- I’m the angry momma bear who would rip the asshole’s arms off and beat him with them. Then ‘fess up and head off to jail. But that’s just our dynamics. I’ve always been tough and the “bad cop” of our pair.
I take back my “FU”. But no more retroactively blaming the victim, huh?
So utterly not the same thing. We’re not talking about accidentally showing these pictures to minors; we’re talking about a willful breach of trust and invasion of privacy. If the teacher did anything wrong, it was reusing the tape (and maybe using the school camera, depending on policy) - not simply recording herself and her boyfriend.
Except when they didn’t. Or, in this case, when the parent is the one *doing it*.
sheel, ballastexistenz asked, but really, the wider this goes, the more people get sucked in, and the messier and weirder it gets. though i agree that posting photos on the internet in that way is Not Okay, they were posted on a blog that gets seriously minimal traffic, and i thought (though i may be wrong) that ballastexistenz had linked the offending blog in her post, which you did link. since people do click through on links, and since i’ve seen people from here on the thread there, that would increase traffic to the offending blog about eight-billion-fold, or thereabouts.
sorry to come off as gunshy, but, well. if you want to get involved, go for it, i guess. your blog, your audience. i’ll repeat again that Photos = Not Okay, but they were a response to some equally Not Okay shit, which is why any form of legal claim’s probably dicey at best. given my dealings with blogger in trying to get some of the initial rounds of bullshit off one of the blogs involved in the fracas, i’m not sure how helpful they’ll be, but that’s still probably the best bet, short of someone convincing both sides to de-escalate. which probably won’t happen til about three years after hell freezes over, unfortunately…
also, jpfbookworm, this is not a parent-child situation. it has been reported as such in some quarters, i think, at various points, but it is, in fact, a boyfriend-girlfriend dispute. a particularly weird one, but one nonetheless.
I don’t ‘own’ women but maybe it’s my conservative side or the parental side or maybe the idea that I find paying a lawyer to defend her from this animal being like getting raped all over again.
No, Pinky - it’s the side that views the sexual assault of one of “your” women as a property crime directed at you, instead of as a crime directed at the person of your daughter or wife who was raped.
The reason I know that is because that’s how I used to think about it. I didn’t know I was thinking of it that way - I assumed I was being chivalrous, that I was standing up as a man to protect women - but you really need to think about it, Pinky.
Assume that your daughter is far more likely to be raped by someone she knows, possibly one of your close friends or relatives. Your brother, for instance. Because that’s a true assumption.
So who does it serve to make these grandiose pledges of revenge against future rapists? The simple fact of the matter is, your pledge is far more likely to put you in the position of having to disbelieve your own daughter so that you don’t have to wind up killing your own brother. (Or friend, or boss, or whatever.)
Your attitude on rape is far more about serving yourself and your own sense of being wronged than about anything having to do with your daughter and her potential situation. That’s why it’s not particularly feminist - you’re still making her (future, hopefully nonexistent) rape all about you, the man.
In the ‘old days’, the parents would deal with this.
Right - because they perceived the violation of their daughter’s vaginal freshness seal as a personal affront or a property crime.
You really need to not be looking at the “old ways”, here. That’s what I’m telling you - your enthusiasm for the “traditional” means of dealing with the rape of those close to you is not particularly woman-friendly.
She wants to deal with it in her own way. I admire that but in the mean time, it’s killing parts of her.
Well look, but how would you feel if the situation had been reversed? If your wife had felt she had to step in and protect you - at your own workplace?
Maybe your wife felt that the loss of face and respect she would suffer by having a “big strong man” show up to deal with her problems outweighed the hassle of this guy. Did you consider that?
Or was your loss of face at “allowing” your wife to be harassed at work your only concern? What it would look like for you as a man to just let guys harass your wife? That’s kind of what I think it is.
Which is why, again, none of us think you’re particularly feminist. You seem interested in it, I guess, and that’s probably good, but as far as you continue to privilege your own desires and needs over those of your wife and daughter, you’re just not meeting the bar.
It’s not linked to on my blog. (You can look, it would save the trouble of guessing.)
Ballas, I did my best, but I couldn’t find anyone in Montana who wanted to touch this with a ten foot pole. Be aware that I’m in the criminal defense world, so my options were a little limited, so you might have luck through some other avenues.
And, just an extra note, Ballas does provide a cut-and-paste link to the pictures, which anyone can view. Probably not a smart idea.
I think Pandagon shoulda left this alone.
So leave unwanted posting sexual pictures of women alone if the women in question are too… uh… “questionable” to be worthy of the same respect as any other woman, or something?
That’s the kind of mentality that leaves women branded “crazy” (whether officially or unofficially) open to this kind of abuse in the first place. Women with psych or developmental labels get far more abuse and far less legal recourse than the average woman.
kidlacan - honestly, it’s irrelevant. The photos were posted, the subject of the photos wants them to be removed. There’s nothing about the debate between the parties that can make disseminating those photos ethical.
My position is that this kind of publicity just makes the situation worse, and that you’re not actually helping your friend by doing this. I say this in particular because your blog post includes a cut-and-paste link to the pictures themselves. That same thread includes Kassi herself accusing Poole of being psychotic and a rapist. Her own blog carries the same accusations. In that same post, you link to Daniel’s blog, which includes accusations of attempted murder, false imprisonment, and rape.
None of these things help Kassi. Rather, they undermine her credibility and yours and, for me, raise serious questions about the legitimacy of this matter and your motivations in reaching out to Sheelz in the first place. Seeking legal advice/referrals is one thing. Publicly smearing the guy (whom I concede deserves it), though, jeopardizes Kassi’s ability to find justice.
Did anyone call or visit http://www.mtadv.org, the Montana Advocacy program whose mission is to provide legal counsel and support for people with mental and physical disabilities? There are also several Missoula-area legal-aid groups that can (or, more accurately, could have) helped Kassi. She could have also contacted Montana’s Office of Victim Services. Or, she could have contacted the Montana Legal Services Association, which provides legal advice and representation to low-income clients in civil matters like the current issue. The first thing she or you should have done was contact one of those groups.
Make no mistake. I don’t know Kassi, so I don’t know if she’s “questionable” or not. I have no idea if she’s “crazy” or not. For my purposes, it doesn’t matter. I’ve worked divorce cases that were far nastier than this, involving very wealthy individuals who (presumably) didn’t suffer any of the ailments Kassi and Poole suffer. I’m not judging either party by their mental conditions, if any. Only by their actions.
Hopefully Kassi will find the legal relief she’s seeking and, I would add, to which she is unequivocally entitled. But it will not be easy and her (and your) actions in publicizing this will not be viewed favorably.
Well… did what I thought I had to. Acted completely on my own, not at her urging at all, when I found out about this. So hopefully she will not be held responsible for my actions. And my actions were intended to (a) get the pictures taken down ASAP, and (b) find her some sort of legal help. Not sure how else I could’ve gone about that one, given what my resources are and aren’t, so if this hurts the case then hurting the case is probably better than there being no case, all things considered.
Pinky, your wife needs to talk to an employment lawyer (one who works with employees) to find out what her options are.
Lawyerly speaking, I don’t have much to add because a situation where both parties are flinging mud makes it a lot harder for a case to be attractive to a lawyer. Unless you have somebody working pro bono, they work for money, and if you’re not paying them by the hour they take a share of the recovery. If the recovery is too small, a lawyer won’t take the case.
(That, by the way, is why the right wing is always trying to put damage caps on lawsuits. It’s not to keep awards small, but to keep people from being able to hire a lawyer in the first place.)
Sheelzebub, it’s not fair to promise stuff like this and then not follow through.
I have zero further comments on this topic except that I hope this woman gets some justice instead of people patronizingly arguing about what’s best for her..