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Please god, no.
An on-going dispute at the Punkass Mousepad is whether or not Journey is next in line for some sort of hipster revival. Marc says aye, and I say if it happens, it shows that the practice of hipster revivalism has hit something of a wall. Well, that wall’s been hit—Salon’s resident music blogger David Marchese has levied a defense of Journey that hits all the notes of a standard issue IMS defense of some long-reviled pop band. He compares Journey to the Abbey Road-era Beatles. He invokes Nirvana. And of course, because Journey writes poppy, catchy songs, he compares them to my beloved Ramones. He beats up a strawman by arguing against the notion that technical ability makes music suck, something I doubt few people actually argue. It’s all very undignified.
To make the situation even worse, people in the comment section actually argue that Marchese is behind the times and the hipsters have been on the Journey revival beat for a long time. Now, there’s two possibilities here. People arguing that the pro-Journey thing is old hat could be engaging in some standard issue IMS one-upmanship, where even if you’ve never heard something like, “You know, Journey’s actually pretty good,” you pretend that the cool people have been saying that forever in order to make the person who is making this statement feel like he’s behind the times. On the other hand, I completely believe this commenter:
That particular Journey song [”Don’t Stop Believin’”] has been a gen-X anthem for a while. It’s the song that everyone seems to know the words to and at the end of a drunken night it’s a hell of a lot of fun to sing. I’ve also been hearing lots of re-mixes lately. If I see it on a juke box you bet I’ll play it.
This is just more evidence of hipster slippage. The metric that determines what makes a song worthy of being covered by Me First and the Gimme Gimmes should be different than the metric that determines whether or not a song or band is ready for a hipster revival, but increasingly the former is being conflated with the latter. The “drunk Gen Xers will probably sing along loudly” measure is perfect for determining whether or not Me First and the Gimme Gimmes will cover it (yes), but it used to be, back when hipsters had standards, that you actually had to make a creative argument for reviving a formerly reviled popular band or artist. And simply invoking the Ramones and taking swipes at imaginary punk rockers who hate technical skills is not enough, especially since the latter argument was completely used up defending Rush.
Or maybe hipster revivals are just a trial-and-error thing, now that I think about it. There’s been a lot of embarrassing missteps in the art of hipster revivalism.
| Totally Deserved The Revival | The Jury’s Still Out | What Were People Thinking? |
| Queen, Heart, Johnny Cash, Phil Spector-produced girl bands, Dolly Parton, Motorhead, the Bee Gees | Neil Diamond, Slayer, King Crimson | Rush, Fleetwood Mac (I say that with a heavy heart), Led Zepplin, and now Journey |
So, Pandagonians, a discussion question: What revivals do you support? What do you think were stupid? Who hasn’t been revived that you think should? Who should never, ever be revived?
151 Responses to “Hipster revivalism hits a wall”
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How can Slayer be “revived”? They’ve been huge for 20 years. Hipsters might discover them, but there’s no revival there. Maybe early Black Sabbath as a revival (although now we’re looking back to grunge).
Neil Diamond though? Hell yes. Back when I wasn’t a boring academic, I was a punk. On a 10-week tour with a very minor hardcore band 13 years ago (!), we had a shoebox full of tapes. Plenty of Slayer, Diecide, Propagandi, whatever, but what we listened to every day was the Neil Diamond tape. It just held up.
Journey though? Great karaoke. But a revival? How can anyone listen to ‘Faithfully’ (”they say the road’s no place to start a family”: tell that to the Tartars, jerk) and not laugh?
Due for a revival? Hildegard Knef. Although maybe the Flying Lizards got there first. But if you haven’t heard her song ‘Holiday,’ oh god you’re missing out.
Journey, Foreigner, Styx, Pablo Cruise, Rush all sounded pretty much the same to me.
If I may disagree on a couple of your choices to this extent: It would depend on which era of BeeGees is being revived. If the disco/Saturday Night Fever era, blecchh. If the earlier, first appearing era, OK
Same with FleetwoodMac. They had so many iterations that it depends onwhich era of the band is being revived. The Peter Green era was solid in-depth blues. The Bob Welch era also had some excellent blues as well as original, unique sounds. The Buckingham/Nicks era not so much, even though it was the more popular.
MY $.02
kind of seems silly to think that slayer would need to have a revival. they arent a particularly old band and unless you grew up never listening to metal at all (and that seems unlikely, or maybe just unfortunate)you should have been listening to slayer for at least part of your formative IMS years.
Yes on Vashti Bunyan and Richard and Linda Thompson, same for other unrecognized folky singers that hipsters discovered when they dug out the old Belle and Sebastian and Elliott Smith CDs and realized Bright Eyes isn’t cool.
I think Journey just gets lumped in with the others because of arena rock revivalism of better 80s bands. Mind you, nobody’s going around arguing on behalf of Styx or Bryan Adams, and there’s a reason for that.
Drunk Gen-Xers will sing Unskinny Bop. And while they are those out there who will argue it, Poison isn’t good.
Hey, I have standards, and I totally support the revival of Slayer, King Crimson, Rush and Led Zeppelin.
Heard Danava, Mammatus, or the Saviours lately (Rush, Yes/K. Crimson, Zepp influenced)?
Actually, 90’s NW rock already exhumed Zeppelin and propped them up next to Iggy and Sid during the G-word Seattle rock party: that was kind of the point, where you had to ask yourself if that grease long hair sitting next to you at the Green River show drinking an Oly was some mouth breather from Bothell or a cutting edge hip dude/dudette. At the time, it was very refreshing and liberating to put away the old punk/metal hatchet and just rock out without worrying about being cool.
Whether or not self referred hipsters “revive” an old band is more a fashion question as far as I’m concerned–what bugs me most is people who wear, say, a Ratt t-shirt ironically, while having no real affection for the band. If you love Journey, aren’t ashamed to say to, then great for you! If you have to layer a few coats of quotation marks and irony around your Journey love, that just seems wimpy to me.
I’m a frickin’ middle aged fart now, and I can’t be bothered with separating my Aztec Camera CD’s from my Def Leppard and Gap Band sections.
Yes, my standards have slipped tremendously. But I’m happy that way.
Poison rocks. That is all.
Not sure Journey needs to be revived, but the Journey backlash has always been a bit much. Their ballads, while exhibiting the annoying traits of the genre, are actually some well-written and pretty songs for people who like that kind of thing.
But, more than that, Journey was more than just Steve Perry and the power ballad. Schon and Rolie (who left) were ex-Santana band members and had some talent.
Anyway, there was nothing especially good about them, but before they became the Steve Perry band they weren’t such an awful example of 70s rock music. And even the Steve Perry band had a couple of moments.
So, no, don’t revive them, but they shouldn’t be the symbol for everything that sucked about music then. Boston deserves that honor.
Didn’t know Led Zeppelin was revived, thought they never went away.
Least needed revival I’ve been hearing about lately is definitely Neil Sedaka. There’s just no reason at all for that.
If you love Journey, aren’t ashamed to say to, then great for you! If you have to layer a few coats of quotation marks and irony around your Journey love, that just seems wimpy to me.
Seconded!
I think it’s worth seeing Journey for what they were: a pop phenomenon featuring a singer with a great voice and a band that didn’t add much to that. The best Journey songs, most notably “Open Arms”, should live on as classic love ballads. At the time, the usual comparison was to Styx, a band with a similar sound and repetoire.
Foreigner had a few pop hits but really didn’t have a singer like Steve Perry. Rush? They were more along the lines of hip, non-mainstream bands like Yes.
Unfortunately, Journey also sank into camp pretty quicky. And part of the problem of having a fan base consisting of 13-year old girls is that, four years later, they will have moved onto something completely different.
I don’t see how anybody could seriously compare Journey with Nirvana. Journey was unapologetically pop, while Nirvana was very much a counter-culture band.
(1) No way somebody’s actually reviving King Crimson. Robert Fripp scoffs at your attempt, and Bill Bruford joins in. I appreciate what Vincent Gallo tried with Yes in Buffalo ‘66, but even that didn’t stick.
(2) And a whole lot of Queen’s catalog is really awful. I’d rather revive some old Sparks albums, or at least ‘vive’ them.
(3) Led Zeppelin is simply too large a franchise, the classic rock equivalent of The Beatles, to ever really go away. Substitute their record label’s first signing: Bad Company. Who is actually a whole lot like Journey, except Paul Rodgers’ lower lip doesn’t quiver as beautifully as Steve Perry’s.
(4) Most hipsters would die if they actually listened to Slayer.
In a post here at waagnfnp, the dangeral M. Bérubé concludes his Sopranos ending analysis with:
However, insufferable music n00b that I am, i have always liked Wheel In the Sky. Not much else though, and not likely to start.
I’m sorry, but “Too Much Time On My Hands” is a fun song.
Just say no to Journey, kids. What’s next, The Doors (again)?
My only regret is that Jim Morrison didn’t live long enough to have a Vegas act with Celine Dion.
Most hipsters would die if they actually listened to Slayer.
Oh c’mon. Slayer’s everywhere. I think you mean Venom, who perhaps are due for a revival, even if only an undead revival.
Deserved Revivals? Jobraith. The Homosexuals.
Dubious revival? Zolar X.
I concur with Vashti Bunyan so long as she’s not in her neo-medieval phase, which is the most of the time. What about Karen Dalton? Also due for revival: Victor Jara. Due for a bigger revival: Bruce Haack.
I’ve heard arguments for Henry Nillson and Paul Simon. Not wholly contemptible.
I HATED Journey growing up because my older sister and all of her friends liked them (this would be late 70’s early 80’s BTW). Ditto groups like REO Speedwagon, Bad Company, Styx, Foreigner, et al. No amount of “Hipster Revival” will EVER make these bands cool.
This is true, but in the context of a hipster revival, Led Zeppelin is never going to be deserving of such a renaissance.First TBogg now Amanda?
Music snobbery is not a free-pass into the Cool Kids Club.
Yeah, Journey sold out and everything post Evolution is pure suckitude, but Cash (and Loretta Lynn) only became viable again after selling out (to an extent).
As Journey’s #1 fan, I in no way excuse what they have come to symbolize. But anyone that was at Palmer Auditorium circa 1980 when AC/DC (with Bon Scott no less) opened, yes, OPENED, for Journey on Journey’s Evolution tour would not be so dismissive.
As a life’s event at the tender age of 14, watching Steve Perry fucking OWN that venue as he hypnotized every single fucking person in the building as Neal Schon fucking ripped on his axe and Steve “machine gun” smith beat the leather and Ross Valory plucked his bass and Gregg Rolie (Gregg Fucking Rolie, post Santana, the world’s biggest sellout?) play his keyboards, it was, to put it mildly, a coming of age moment.
Yeah, they sold out. Who hasn’t? The Ramones? They sure as shit tried but who was buying? I guess those who think “Rock and Roll High School” rocks! also think that 3-chord riffs and simplistic lyrics are authentic. Fucking please. At least I admit that Rhinestone (a guilty pleasure) sucks.
Yes, Journey seems to be everyone’s favorite band to rag on. But I defy anyone not to sing at the top of their lungs “Don’t Stop Beliving” at closing time at Molotov’s on a Friday night. Woops, I guess that isn’t cool, either.
I wouldn’t cross the street to piss on a pair of Rolling Stones tickets on fire nor would I have a wet dream about The Boss. But you give me Journey with Steve Perry singing “Loving Touching Squeezing” and I give you a Moment in Time.
Fucking music snobbery. Now somebody hook me up with a pair of tix to the Foreigner/Styx/Def Leppard show and a date with a Farrah Fawcett hair-do.
Poison is the K-Mart version of Motley Crue. I can prove it with maths and stuff.
Journey?!? Ugh. They’re not fit to carry the Ramones’s cheeseburgers and smokes. Sometimes bands that were much reviled and ended up in the cultural landfill actually stank. And now I’ve got that awful haircut in my head.
El Tiburon,
If I may disagree, Cash became viable again when he went back to his roots, which country music was too stupid to recognize.
What would journey do?
(can anybody find that Weekly Week gag as reprinted in Harper’s? It was a Q and A with fundy questions answered according to the Gospel of Journey lyrics)
There isn’t enough irony in the world to make Journey hip.
Rich,
Covering Nine Inch Nails is exactly what part of Cash’s root structure? And making a main-stream video (as powerful as it may have been) I don’t think is Cash reaching back to his roots.
Oh - here it is! http://holyshrineofjourney.com/wwjd.html
Don’t Stop Believing that Journey sucks.
The whole question of ‘technical ability’ is a tricky one. Pam is right that anybody who says technical ability makes a band bad is ridiculous. But whenever I say something like “Yes sucks,” the requisite response is “but they’re so good technically,” as if that is an a priori reason to like a band or their music. As a jazz fan and saxophonist, I will openly admit that Kenny G is technically amazing — he plays the soprano sax with far more control that anybody, and it is a very hard instrument to manage. Nonetheless, I wouldn’t listen to 10 minutes of that schlop. Same goes for Rush, Yes, and Journey. Technically good does not equal actually good.
I have mixed feelings about hipster revivalism. To a very large degree its predicated on nostalgic, wrong-headed memorialization of lost youth. “Hipsters” who have to resort to advocating on behalf of bands like Journey are taking their most embarrassing cultural detritus of their youth and making half hearted attempts to hip up their mistakes IMHO.
For example, at one point in life I spent an inordinate amount of time in front of the tube watching MTV. This got me excited and certain LP and cassette purchases were made which would now embarrass the piss out of me, as I am sure many of you have felt the same way.
In short, anyone trying to bring back this crap is gonna have this 400 plus pound Very Large Man sitting on their chest and bouncing. Hard.
It’s been obvious for some time who really deserves a revival–Kenny mother fucking Rogers.
I think the Journey revival is a bit of old news. I remember watching Scrubs when it first came out, and raising an eyebrows when Zach Braff’s character copped to being a huge Journey fan. He even belonged to a cover band called “The Loving, Touching, Squeezings.”
As an announcer at the world’s worst radio station, I listen to crap six hours a day, six days a week. Bands like Journey, Styx, Pablo Cruise, and The Bee Gees at any time in their career can not be hated on enough. They’re not so fun if you aren’t blind drunk at the end of a Saturday night.
A few other “artist” I wish had died in the womb so I wouldn’t have to listen to them for food or pretend I had anything but contempt for their fans:
Elton John
Rod Stewart
Bryan Adams
Bruce Springsteen
Starship
and I know we’re all supposed to love her since she’s old and been around forever, but Madanna’s voice makes me want to drive screwdrivers through my ear drums.
“No way somebody’s actually reviving King Crimson. Robert Fripp scoffs at your attempt, and Bill Bruford joins in. I appreciate what Vincent Gallo tried with Yes in Buffalo ‘66, but even that didn’t stick.”
Actually, King Crimson toured with Tool for a while, and that might have been the tipping point for the truly awful “modern rock” Crimson EP released in 2002–which was, yes, an attempt at a comeback. Scoff? I think Fripp would be delighted.
“I HATED Journey growing up because my older sister and all of her friends liked them (this would be late 70’s early 80’s BTW). Ditto groups like REO Speedwagon, Bad Company, Styx, Foreigner, et al. No amount of “Hipster Revivalâ€? will EVER make these bands cool.”
Cool, maybe not. But I think we’re blurring the lines between what’s cool and what’s deserving of affection here. Honest hate is respectable–no one expects you to like a band you hate because of fickle hipster breezes blowing in contrary directions. But honest appreciation always trumps cool in my book.
“This is true, but in the context of a hipster revival, Led Zeppelin is never going to be deserving of such a renaissance.”
WHAAAA?!! Okay, I guess deserving is debatable, since I’m pretty sure the guys in the band are douchebags. But they channeled some mighty epic sized Rock in their heyday. The fact that multiple generations of rock bands have stolen bits of knowledge from the Sacred Tomes of Zepp and Sabbath (located atop an icy mountain guarded by mighty Frost Giants and Trolls) says something profound–look at St. Vitus living next door to Black Flag at SST in the early 80’s, Soundgarden in late 80’s-early 90’s, and the kids in Wolfmother today. Hell, ask Sleater-Kinney or better yet, listen to The Woods: total AOR classic rock influence.
Just thought I’d point out how your ad seemed to answer the question:
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/5965/wsqm2.jpg
If we’re going to revive Journey, we might as well go whole hog and revive Night Ranger, Damn Yankees and REO Speedwagon.
Obviously, this is an unacceptable outcome. Ergo, no revival for Journey. Sorry folks.
El Tiburon,
Cash ALWAYS covered songs by artists he enjoyed like Bob Dylan. Go back and listen to the first Rick Rubin produced American Recordings as it was the start of the Cash revival. That was totally his roots which he built on once again that reached the American Recordings IV that included “Hurt”.
Actually, we will know hipster revivalism has truly hit the wall when Toto becomes cool again.
[ducks]
Serioulsy, though…
There is no question that people make this argument. We’ve all heard it a million times. It is, after all, an easy flip to make, going from “A band doesn’t necessarily need chops to be good” to “Any band with chops is automatically suspect.” (See also: “Any band that uncool people have actually heard of is automatically suspect,” etc.)
I will admit I’m a little unclear how you get from “Kneejerk suspcion of technical ability is stupid” to “Journey doesn’t suck,” though. I think he might have skipped a few steps in there.
There’s also no way Zepplin belongs in the same category as Journey. You can’t blame Zep for their legions of inferior imitators (or their legions of mouth-breathing fans). And while it’s easy to poke fun at Zep’s most obvious flaws (the showy bombast, the Tolkein-obsessed lyrics, “Stairway to Heaven”), when you scrape away all that baggage away you’re still left with John Bonham’s hookup with John Paul Jones, and that rhythm section is pretty fucking irresistable.
Pablo Cruise and Styx “sounded pretty much the same”… simply because they both appeared on car radio playlists in 1978? Ye gads.
Here’s the official classification method for late70s, early 80s pop/rock genre:
Styx, Boston, Foreigner, Kansas, REO Speedwagon. Fondly known as dinosaur rock, anthem arena stuff. More cowbell.
Rush, Genesis (the Peter Gabriel era, not the Phil Collins era), late Moody Blues (Gemini Dream, etc.) and Alan Parsons Project. What the indie kids listened to, in between Steely Dan and Elvis Costello.
Pablo Cruise belongs with Christopher Cross (and Phil Collins) — you know what I think of that.
As for Journey, El Tib is right. Tell me you can listen to the opening chords of Don’t Stop Believin — Just a smalltown girl, livin in a lonely world, took the midnight train going anywhere — and not weep at the soaring awesomeness of Perry’s vocals.
Wow! That is much worse that I remember it back when I first saw it on MTV.
Here’s the thing– I’m not disputing Led Zeppelin’s quality or influence or even listenability. I actually think they’re great. I’m just saying that they don’t belong in any kind of specifically hipster revival.Cash ALWAYS covered songs by artists he enjoyed like Bob Dylan
Hell yes. One of my all time favorite Cash albums is Now, There was a Song! God it’s great.
Did a Deep Purple revival come along without me noticing? Good.
Mark - Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Girls my age and younger simply swooned over Steve Perry. I, at the time in the height of my high school intellectual snobberiness, couldn’t stand Journey’s shallow, poppy, insipid tripe.
The Police were getting off the ground. Remember those “underground” tapes that a friend had copied from a friend who’d been in New York that week-end? I knew some cool cats.
And please - Rush and Journey are not equivalent. They were never evven played on the same stations! Journey = bubblegum pop for (early) teen-aged girls and their sappy no-taste boyfriends, and Rush = high-brow rock for the smart boys who still craved a bad-boy image.
You know, come to think of it, Rush was rarely even on the radio. Their compositions were generally far longer than the 3:42 typically allotted per song on commercial radio playlists.
No I’m no angel.
That ship has sailed. The hipster bars around here have been playing “Babe I’m Gonna Leave You” and such like for a while now, and indie rock bands are getting a lot less bashful about wearing their Led Zep influence on their sleeves. Ferinstance, it’s hard to listen to the slow middle section of TV On The Radio’s “Wolf Like Me” without thinking of Led Zep.
Personally, I think Albert Lee (Love) is someone who is long overdue for hipster revivalism (in that it would have been nice if it had happened when the dude was still alive), but unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be taking hold.
I blame PBR poisoning.
I got into a wee bit of an argument with an old radio station boss (now coolest record store-owner) in Lawrence Fucking Kansas, and his fellow employees.
They all argued Journey, when I argued for Foreigner. Kelly, the owner, should know not to step on my toes when it comes to fucking Foreigner.
I had walked in, and demanded of Kelly: “What is this? Classic rock?” (in quite the incredulous tone). So, I guess I started the debate. And Kelly: “Yes, Holly. It is. It is Journey.”
Then I went off on Journey, and I stand by my un-hipster love of Foreigner. Especially the “4″ album, of course.
It felt all very surreal at the time, and I may have asked aloud if we were re-enacting a scene from High Fidelity. I know I did utter something to the effect, to my boyfriend.
oh, and at KU’s ultimate “hipster” radio station: I got requests for fucking King Crimson all of the time. (97-99, 2003) This usually evoked a sigh from me, but I guess “hipsters”, “IMS”, have long been aware of KC. Not my thing, though.
“Don’t call it a comeback”.
All 1970s prog-rock bands deserve a revival. As does my beloved Revolution (Prince’s group).
Durn mod-bot…
Frippertronics + Revolutions. That would be something.
Journey? Cool?
Not even in my worse nightmares…
I vote for reviving Heart (all day long), Tower of Power (they even have a song called “What is Hip?”), and old Santana (to offset the horrible atrocity that was 1999’s “Supernatural”).
And I’ve been on a personal crusade to get people listening to Desmond Dekker for the past decade.
I think that Neil Diamond deserved it more then the Bee Gees and Dolly Parton actually (though I’m not sure what recent revivals they had).Diamond is an artist who really ditched the ironic/camp thing that hipsters loved him for,and released one of the most substantive and hauntng albums in years with ‘12 Songs’.And I think the album’s great songwriting made people take a second look at Neil Diamond the Songwriter.The songwriter and the original singer of great rockers and moody ballads like Solitary Man,Shilo,Girl Youll Be A Woman Soon,Red Red Wine,Brooklyn Roads,I’m A Believer,Play Me,Holly Holy,Morningside,Stones,Thank the Lord for the Night Time,Done Too Soon and on and on.
THere’s a big difference between genuine revivalism (ie Johnny Cash) and ironic revivalism (ie Journey). Most hipsters who are listening to Journey are probably doing so just so that they can laugh about how ridiculous listening to Journey is.
Oh, and “The Homosexuals”? They never went away. And regular listeners that wanted the homosexuals- not the same peeps that wanted their fucking King Crimson.
I must admit: Enough playing of King Crimson- and I started to tune in, and recognize their talent.
Still not running out to buy any KC. Might go now (to Lawrence) to buy some Homosexuals.
dude, revival? journey has held a special place in the heart of hipster kids since before white belts and PBR — right alongside foreigner and boston and the rest. srsly.
On the real topic of the post:
I always wondered why Shriekback wasn’t included in the whole 80’s dance rock revival. Their early stuff was quite wonderful, and even Big Night Music had its odd charm (Go Bang! was forgettable, though). I play it and people never recognize it–that surprises me.
Also, I’d love it if Big Dipper were re-issued or at least remembered by someone other than myself.
high-five, kidlacan. you nailed it. long threads (before stupid white belts, and all that shit) about our “guilty pleasure” music. I just had no shame. still don’t.
Oh, and Dr. “The Kids” have been onto Big Dipper, for at least eleven years, now.
Of course, that could be Built to Spill or Trouser Press’ fault.
Fuck hipsters. Annoying.
Revivalism of this type is so silly. I listen to a lot of stuff that was made before I was born. Good music is good music, good books are good books. The passage of time does nothing to change that.
I love the electronic organ sounds in Deep Purple, the gothic guitars in Rainbow. And then I like the samples of Ministry, the bleeps and bloops of Ladytron and the horns playing over computers in KMFDM.
Revivalism is a nice way of saying people joining a herd to suport some fad.
Good entertainment doesn’t need reviving among the people that genuinely appreciate it.
First TBogg now Amanda?
Music snobbery is not a free-pass into the Cool Kids Club.
Surely my condescending affection for music snobbery hasn’t passed you by until now.
DJA-”I caught the rains in Africa” by Toto is one of my favorite guilty pleasure songs. Just sayin’
A friend of mine has a “twelve-stages of irony” theory. The first stage being total laugh-out loud mocking, and the last stage being complete and utter acceptance of the idea, band or lifestyle.
How terrible is it that when I started reading this entry, I was thinking “Wait! Hipsters have been into Journey for a long time. ” Journey was common on the mixed tape trade in College, and and that was uhhh…well that was in the late nineties. I went to school in Olympia, which for those of you who know, well yeah there’s some hipsters around there.
I think the hipster revival of some questionable bands like Journey, Boston, etc. had more to do with the used vinyl trade than artistic merit. I picked up so many of those records in thriftstores. When they cost a buck, you end up buying things for the bizarre album art and the memory of hearing your babysitter sing along in 1982. So I have every single Journey album, Boston, heart, Niel Diamond and Neil Young, a lot of soul and 70’s funk. Its what we listened to at our shared house.
But what counts as hipster revivalism? When a currently popular musician produces someone? When people ironically wear the band/artist t-shirt? When the catalog is re-released? When a song is used as the basis of a hip-hop track? When is it officially hipster revived?
“Oh, and Dr. “The Kidsâ€? have been onto Big Dipper, for at least eleven years, now.”
Great! If this is the case, though, why can I never find any copies of their first CD? I have kitty-demolished copy of it on vinyl but no turntable to play it on. Haven’t heard it in years.
“Of course, that could be Built to Spill or Trouser Press’ fault.”
Just have to add that Doug Martsch had a locker about three doors down from mine in high school. That means nothing except that I enjoy dropping that name every once in a while.
Oh, and “The Homosexuals�? They never went away.
Neither did The Ex, but I got a sense around, say, 2002 that suddenly everyone was listening to them. Same thing with Gang of Four in, say, 1999 (or was that 1996?). It could be that I was the one who became suddenly aware of The Ex and The H. for the first time then (in the same way that I turned on to the extraordinary Essential Logic only a year ago), so who knows.
I went to school in Olympia
Harh. Me too (and stayed on 4 years after graduation and only left, finally, in 1997).
Just have to add that Doug Martsch had a locker about three doors down from mine in high school.
He ever get his beard caught in it?
I must have missed the Zeppelin revival, but they are amazing. You obviously don’t know what you’re talking about.
Sorry you cannot find that first copy. It is out there- somewhere. I even know where I’d go first to look for it- but I bet the demand for it, keeps people holding onto theirs.
If I had a locker three lockers down from Doug- well, I’d have been swooning, I am sure.
About Doug–I still have a mix cassette he made for me. One side is filled with songs his first band Farm Days recorded on portable tape player, the other is chock full of Butthole Surfer, Scratch Acid, Husker Du and Minutemen songs. Don’t have a tape deck anymore either–I’ve been thinking about transferring it to some digital media, but I have no idea how to do it.
Hey, Journey and all the other art rock wankers did many of us a big service - they drove us to embrace punk rock and truly novel music like B-52s with great passion and a sense of alienated community vital to our adolescent psyches!
King Crimson is by far the best band in your graph.
I love “revivals.” There’s nothing obnoxious about digging up an old band for some out-of-context analyzation from our perch at modernity. No matter how contrived the attempt is, I enjoy taking a look at an old band’s work, and seeing how well it’s withstood the dozens of bands that swiped their sound, or even those who vastly improved upon it. Even at the level of the “ironic,” “herd-like” flings, it inspires us to look closer at the acts we take for granted, like the ones in the graph.
Sometimes you also get to discover obscure groups.
I completely disagree with you.
Does anyone here read ILM?
I hope that everyone here agrees that texture and mood - how something makes you feel - is more important than what you think is going on behind the kit, or on the fretboard.
Let’s name other due revivals.
I submit Florida (especially Tampa) death metal: Death, Atheist, and Cynic. Didn’t turn out as big and mighty as Slayer, but they’re at least as important to heavy music. The bands were vastly more precise musicians and were the first to use the jazzy interludes that’re now common among Dillinger-esque hardcore. And fretless basses? Awesome.
You know what’s going through a real revival now, with all these complete discographies being released? That funky art-rock like Liquid Liquid and Josef K. Which makes me happy.
frankye 12:42 Bands like Journey, Styx, Pablo Cruise, and The Bee Gees at any time in their career can not be hated on enough.
Exactly. If the purpose of hipsterism / revivals was to lay on bands the full hate-on they didn’t have at their height, than I’d get more behind it as a pasttime. But no amount of post hoc hipsterism improves something that was intolerable the first go-round. It’s like that awful Saturday Night Live eating its own crap rule of comedy: if a sketch isn’t funny at all the first time than dammit, it will be the 100th.
“Don’t Stop Believin’” is one of my all-time favorites. (Yes, I’m serious.) Say what you want about Steve Perry, but the dude has got pipes. He sings the hell out of the song, to the point where I cannot help but break out in goosebumps.
Also, I think Neil Diamond is a genius. I could listen to him sing forever.
I am obviously the least cool person ever. I need to go listen to some Yo La Tengo so I can fix that immediately.
However, El Tiburon, that comment was a masterpiece of hipster defense of a previously reviled band. I almost bought it.
Death! Morbid Angel! ATHEIST!! Fuck Yeah!
And don’t forget the awesome This Heat boxset.
“But no amount of post hoc hipsterism improves something that was intolerable the first go-round.”
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Time gives us a moving point of view. It re-contextualizes, allowing us to see things differently, with different eyes. With the heat of the moment cooled down, we can see things that weren’t clear the first time around.
Complaining about revivalism is like complaining that flowers grow in dirt. Or denying that they have roots. Real retro is connecting things to a larger tradition, admitting that everything new has its roots in the past.
What’s annoying is when people use a new band as a kind of prophylactic latex glove that lets them touch the cheese of ages past without contaminating their cool cred with the stink–like listening to the Darkness, say, but still hating Queen. That’s SHALLOW retro-ism, which is annoying.
ellie, frankye, i can’t help but disagree. there is almost always something to enjoy in music, whether you go the ironic route or genuinely have fun in the spirit of the style itself. were you actually so grieviously wronged by journey that declaring some sort of anger-jihad is the only possible way to make it better?
the Bee Gees will always grace my impromptu basement/laundromat dance parties, because they are awesomely unselfconscious and excellent for awesomely unselfconscious dancing. and Journey is always going to inspire a rockout if it comes on the radio. they’re just fun. yeah, i can see how being exposed to music you don’t dig for extended periods of time might grate — i used to work in a place with a really shitty steel drum band, and now i work in a place that plays nothing but reggae, so trust me, i know. i find ironic hipster posturing more tedious than aggressively sweet guitar riffs, though. at least the guitar is reasonably sincere.
…wait. there are people who profess to hate QUEEN? i refuse to believe you, unless these people are middleschoolers who haven’t figured out yet how cred actually works.
You can have my Styx when you pry it from my cold, dead hands. I am fairly indifferent to Journey, but you cannot take my Styx.
“…wait. there are people who profess to hate QUEEN?”
Just a hypothetical. Haven’t met any myself.
“previously reviled band”
A HA! So they are no longer reviled. My work here is almost done.
I think I will go find and dust off the letter I received from Journey, Inc. after writing them my first and only fan letter over 25 years ago.
Everyone, join in:
“And it’s your turn girl to cry,
because he’s lovin’,
he’s touchin’
he’s squeezing another…
(with arms waving)
na na na na na,
na na na,
na na na na,
na na na na na,
na na na na na,
na na na,
na na na na na na na,
na na na na na,
na na na,
na na na na,
na na na na na,
na na na na na,
na na na,
na na na na na na na,
na na na na na,
na na na,
na na na na,
na na na na na,
na na na na na,
na na na,
na na na na na na na,”
I can’t believe I forgot Cheap Trick in the deserving category.
I had a friend who was a punk rock kid
Didn’t know what a chord was
Didn’t know which guitar was “the bass”
Said he couldn’t listen to “Stairway” ‘coz it was “against everything he stood for.”
Told me the Ramones “lost a lot of fans when they did a ten-second drum solo”
Now he’s in Chicago working for a church
And i’m still a graphic artist
and listening to Queen
and Journey
and Styx.
“My only regret is that Jim Morrison didn’t live long enough to have a Vegas act with Celine Dion.”
If The Lizard King had lived much longer, he would have ended up a fat guy dead on his toilet just like Elvis.
I love the Doors, but some things weren’t meant to last…
I thought Rush & Journey & Genesis have been going through this ‘revival’ thing for a while now. Just from certain geekish acquaintances I’ve had who started listening to them as a means of rebelling against emo. Cause, yanno, wouldn’t wanna embrace anything modern since that might look trendy. lol
I say revive Cannibal Corpse-like bands because if that won’t annoy parents nothing will, right?
Cheap Trick’s s/t debut is one of the cornerstones of 70’s rock. Just ask Big Blacki.
I mean, just ask Big Black.
I always thought punk rock/new wave was a response to the slick, trite corporate formula music of the late Seventies, which Journey represented.
“I can’t believe I forgot Cheap Trick in the deserving category.”
If Big Black covers Cheap Trick, you know that’s some dope shit.
Nailed, Bizzaro.
I can only truly hate derivitive, unimaginative rock music.. Godsmack, Nickelback, you know the crew. But I find Queen painfully dull, if that qualifies as “hate” for you.
Revivals I’d like to see?
Redgum - particularly if they can update “Drover’s Dog”.
Skyhooks - they’d have to do something similar to INXS, and get a whole new lead singer, but I figure they might be fun to pull back into action.
Midnight Oil - if only to get Peter Garrett out of parliament and doing something *useful* for a change.
(Yes, I like Australian folk/pub rock. I was *never* one of the cool kids).
That said, I’ve never been one to get interested in things merely because they were trendy at the time. I listen to lyrics, and I sing along, which means that the majority of what’s played on the radio as current stuff tends to irritate me - the pop stuff has lyrics which range from irritating to banal, the “alternative” stuff has no recognisable tune to sing along to, and the rap combines the worst of both worlds. Now, if you’ll all excuse me, I’m off to listen to the Pogues for a bit.
I respectfully submit Chicago and Air Supply for revival.
Let me just say, as someone literally and to my eternal shame NAMED after a Neil Diamond song because my poor mother was in fact that pathetic, there is NOTHING redeeming about Neil Diamond, nor about being chased around the playground by nitwits singing the eardrum-puncturing drivel that passes for the lyrics of said atrocity.
THAT is all.
I can’t believe no one mentioned Asia yet. I’d like to point and laugh at hipsters who honestly think Asia was great.
I’ve got “Only Time Will Tell” on my iTunes right now.
I love Journey- have since high school (I’m 23 now, appropriately hipster-aged, although no one in their right mind would describe me as such). Journey is espcially great for karaoke (as demostrated in a particularly great clip from The Family Guy) and the shower.
When I was doing some research in Philadelphia about two years ago, there was a little bar down the street from where I was staying. A friendly place, sadly no longer in existence, but you probably would have hated it because, apparently, the bar’s theme song was “Cracklin’ Rosie”. They played it Every. Single. Night. Sometimes repeatedly.
Journey was one of my favorite bands growing up in the 1980’s, but except for a couple of songs they did for some movie soundtracks, their work after 1983’s “Frontier” album was rather substandard.
Of course, Journey is not in the same category as Led Zeppelin, Rush, Pink Floyd and other serious rock bands, but different bands appeal to my different moods. Sometimes I’m too happy to listen to some of the depressing stuff by Floyd. Journey was great music for blasting on my stereo when I would wash my car in the driveway on a hot summer afternoon.
Cara-he, so your mother named you Holly Holy?…
:)
Dr. Locrian: ah, yeah… A Doug Martsch mixed tape! Oh, I covet.
For others: Gang of Four- never went away- as far as I can tell. It’s just not even the kind of music we’re talking about: post-punk vs. “classic rock”. Maybe I am so fucking wrong.
Cannibal Corpse- saw them in KS’ only hipster town, in, like, ‘99 or 2000. I did not know they were dead, or whatever. It seemed for a wee bit, that they played quite regularly, actually.
If ANYONE brings back fucking Air Supply (hated them since at least the age of three)- I will get violent. That’s not usually in my nature. (I really cannot see that happening- I can only see my mother behind a revival of that shit; subjected me to many of my formative years listening to “soft rock, of the 60s, 70s, and 80s”). DON’T DO IT.
If my awesomely cool boyfriend is any bellweather, it’ll be the Carpenters, Billy Ocean and Lionel Richie.
I have a great cd with acoustic versions of the hits by Tommy Tutone (Jenny Jenny), Asia (It was the Heat of the Moment), Rick Springfield (Jessie’s Girl), Jane Weidlin (Our Lips are Sealed) and a bunch of others that just makes me so damn happy every time one of the songs comes up on my shuffle.
I have a Bob Seger greatest hits CD given to me by my dad, who would embarrass the hell out of me by cranking the Bob whenever he came on the radio. Now, sometimes I like to listen to it because I live very far away from him, and I have (now) fond memories of him pulling off the road to recline his car seat and groove on “Night Moves.”
I haven’t heard of Bob being revived, although my much cooler boyfriend now digs the CD, and a hip bar near us was recently advertising a show by “Total BS,” a Seger cover band. He does have a great voice.
Cara-he, I have sympathy. My birth name is from a Fleetwood Mac song, and I used to cringe every time it came on. In the last few years, though, I’ve accepted it. I mean, if I pretty much dress like Stevie circa 1978, I can’t hate her.
Please stop with the Cannibal Corpse revival. In the death metal circles, they are a joke. Go with Suffocation. Instant cred with both headbangers and clueless music snob twits who write for Salon. And while you’re at it, let’s give some love to those loveable Norwegian black metallers. Who’s up for some corpse paint and church burning?
And when can I listen to my ELP records without wearing a bag over my head?
For what it’s worth I saw a strangely moving cover of “Don’t Stop Believing” by an traditional Irish band called Suicra. This was during a Christmas concert of all things. It rocked as hard as something can rock when there is a bodhran involved.
That is pretty much the perfect storm of not hip.
First of all, “Abbey Road,” or anything by the Beatles for that matter, does not belong in a comparison with anything else (Jeez, don’t you children know anything?), let alone compared “technically” with Journey, or whoever. My twentysomething son and his crowd of ex-slackers have enjoyed Journey for a couple of years, I assume ironically. Now “Don’t Stop Believin’” will always be associated with the “Sopranos” finale. I can appreciate it in that context, just like I can appreciate “Unchained Melody” for its association now with Demi Moore at the potter’s wheel in the movie “Ghost.” Context means a lot. That’s why to lots of us old ’60s-era farts, everything the Beatles ever did remains the standard by which everything that came afterward is judged. That’s just all there is to it. Sorry your generation’s music sux so badly in comparison. Then again, we’ll all die sooner than you will.
“That is pretty much the perfect storm of not hip.”
Thanks ellen. Best one I’ve heard all day.
If my awesomely cool boyfriend is any bellweather, it’ll be the Carpenters, Billy Ocean and Lionel Richie.
Your awesomely cool boyfriend read GQ by any chance? I can’t say much for the Carpenters and Billy Ocean, but GQ pretty much gave the biggest word count coverage to the whole “Lionel Richie is huge in the Middle East” thing. I think it started as a “what the?” observation by ABC correspondents in Baghdad in the Spring of ‘06, sometime in the summer the GQ article hit, and then NPR had a field day with it on all its magazine programming in December.
Chicago’s early albums were decent jazzy albums for the coked up set, kinda like “Layla” Derek and the Dominoes era Clapton with horns instead of guitars. Speaking of horn driven, with Tower of Power and Ides of March, people should bring back CHASE as well. Bill Chase’s band? Jazz/Rock tightrope walking off the deepend till a good number of the members including Bill Chase died in a place crash?
Not that soundtrack worthiness is a measure of a band, but there’s a sequence in Children of Men that alone proves King Crimson was worth keeping around in someone’ catalog. Why are people lumping KC with crappy bands from the 80s? I can see the association with Rush, in many ways Rush and a lot of prog rock is KC’s fault. On the other hand my favorite Wolfgang’s Vault concert stream is the set KC played when opening for Jefferson Airplane and JOE COCKER. From what the board recording picked up from the crowd, KC owned that venue.
If you want lameness derived from KC that’s more contemporarneously tied to Journey, you want to revive Emerson Lake and Palmer. Hipsters can even debate whether CARNEVIL #9 makes up for “Pictures and an Exhibition” and “Nutrocker”.
Oh, and Billy Ocean would be too obvious. Where’s Ray Parker Jr.’s stock these days?
TA- the boyfriend that drug me to all of the Cannibal Corpse shows? Total hipster and death metal boy. He could even tell me at the death metal shows which bands, as he had loved them since he was fourteen or fifteen, were being real about their proclamation of love for “the devil”, and the ones that were only joking. Usually the “Scandinavian Death Metal” shows that would play in Lawrence, KS? Mixed bag: some of them true believers, the others joke-worshippers.
Oh, and that ex and another ex (they’re friends- Lawrence and Kansas City- small incestuous scene for everything) have a friend in common, who is from Kansas (I think Lawrence) who is now “famous” in Norway, playing in some Death Metal band.
Sarah- your boyfriend (and poor Cara-he) could totally rock out with my mom. Oh, and my mom used to (and probably still does) have a thing for Neil Diamond. I guess he wasn’t bad looking- just his music-ick.
My dad at least had excellent jazz snobbery. My mother offered me nothing to go on other than that Foreigner 4 album. Fuck. maybe that actually belonged to my dad. And , well- she did like The Beatles and The Rolling Stones- but that’s the only cred she gets (that’s also a reflection of her times (b.1947)
I am now off to rock-out to the band Ghosty. Oh, and I did hear the new Ghosty album coming out in like, September or October- and it’s going to be good. And Ghosty does cover Big Star like no other can- but that’s like calling Gang of Four classic rock- totally not the same thing/ genre.
Oh, and I hope I never/read someone imply that Journey is art rock again. I mean, I know that Foreigner is definitely not art rock.
“Go with Suffocation. Instant cred with both headbangers and clueless music snob twits who write for Salon. And while you’re at it, let’s give some love to those loveable Norwegian black metallers. Who’s up for some corpse paint and church burning?”
Hails! Suffocation kills. And those panda faced Norwegians, lovable and awesome as they are, are currently surpassed by the USBM and French hordes. I’m tellin’ ya, as funny as it is to watch those YouTube segments of clueless local news personalities warning parents about the dangers of Emo, just imagine the crap storm that will descend when truly grim and kvlt Satanic metal becomes trendy . . . although I guess it won’t be so grim and kvlt if that happens. Oh well.
I must have missed something:
Neil Diamond?
Neil Sparkly-Shirt-Too-Much-Chest-Hair Diamond?
Poster boy for the post-menopausal set?
THAT Neil Diamond?
Is back?
And–possibly–hip?
Have I gone through the looking glass or something?
Journey, if they became a popularly supported reunion band, should be horrified and go home. Or something. Journey makes very poor music which should never be used as a way to identify the tastes or feelings of the people who were unfortunate enough to be alive at the same time that Journey’s music was broadcast in the popular media.
To hbsweet:
Thank you! Neil Diamond is incapable of hip the way Ken Lay is incapable of hip.
Please. You should be ashamed of every song on that “1″ CD, the one with all the #1 hits. So embarrassing.
The Beatles are for people with absolutely no musical curiosity. If you like it, that is totally fine, but don’t make statements that are really, really offensive to others.
I assume you think that electronic music and hip-hop are completely illegitimate art forms. That deserves sincere pity. But then, you did suggest you’re old. Best perhaps for you to stay in your hole with eight CD’s on repeat. Enjoy.
If you see all music standing in relationship to a single band, your perspective is miniscule and it “sux.”
:D
What’s with all the glorification of “snobbery,” by the way? I’ve never read any of the Pandagon music posts because the “snob” routine doesn’t seem like a joke.
due for revival: thin lizzie (whiskey in the jar!), t-rex, sweet, mott the hoople, elo
due not revive: saga, ferner, billy joel, 80s hair metal
cheap trick is teh rawk
Also, I believe “Yacht Rock” is re-animating Christopher Cross, Hall and Oates and various Eagles even as we speak, in the name of smooth rock.
due for revival: did steely dan ever go away? sly and the family stone
i was pretty pumped when i started hearing abba get played more. dancing queen fills me with an unexplainable joy.
and i also protest the hate toward led zeppelin and rush. im not usually big on classic rock, but both of those bands are exceptions, and far more deserving of revivals than neil diamond or king crimson.
oh, and whenever i hear “its not unusual” by tom jones, i cant help but turn it up and bop around. its sorta humiliating. like im carlton from the fresh prince of bel air, only lamer.
though I am having no trouble rehabilitating Brahms around Casa Greensmile, I am not tempted to rediscover or find the long-overlooked virtues of much else. None the less, when you mentioned how the comment thread on the Salon post held forth that Journey was already passe’ for a second time, I had to note: that is the nature of commenting…it you can’t one-up and can’t stand to “me-too”, you don’t type.
I haven’t even seen it yet, but how in hell could they ruin the last Sopranos with Journey? Um, hello, Stones?? Little Steven??
I don’t understand this “revival” stuff. I hated Journey in 1978, and I still hate ‘em today. How about DLR era Van Halen? More fun, more rockin'’, what’s not to like?
Motorhead and Darlene Love and The Ronettes and The Crystals have never gone away (and never will!), so I don’t know how they could be revived.
My revival candidate? The Damned. Pretty much unheard in America (at least by me) at their height, I love ‘em more than The Clash. (Post James, pre-Goth, to be specific.)
Here’s John Scalzi’s take on Journey. I think you’ll find it amusing.
WF
I’ve seen this condition with Bush. Let’s call it JDS (Journey Derangement Syndrome).
But let’s put this into some perspective. “The Sopranos” = “Greatest Fucking Cultural Phenom EVAH” right?
So-
David Chase, who must be the Greatest Dude EVAH,chooses a goddamn Journey song to end the last episode of the GFCPE. He didn’t choose some DLR Van Halen or Abba or Queen or SRV or Led Zepplin or Ramones or New York Dolls or James Brown or Johnny Cash (or Paycheck) or Bruce or Neil or Nirvana or Linkin Park or Bono or Celine or Some Obscure Indie Band That Is Cool Because They Would Never Sell Out as Long as They Don’t Get Too Popular.
No, it was Journey. And it was a third-rate Journey song. So suck it, Journey Haters. Until the End of Time it will be a Journey song that ended the Sopranos.
By the reciprocal property, Journey must be the Greates Fucking Band in The World.
Journey Haters. I’m taking my ball and going home.
Update:
A Slice of Greatness can currently be seen at Eschaton.
You can see it anyway you want it, just the way you need it.
ah, sheeit. Last night after Ghosty played some band (who had a member that made me believe that they were “metal”) covered “I’m Moving Out”, or whatever by Billy Joel. Now, that is the ONLY Billy Joel song I like- but hearing them cover it perfectly- including the stutter?
I realized, “Oh, my god! (I was also a wee bit tipsy- almost fell off of a front porch outside- I was all worried about how that would’ve “ruined my new Peggy Noland dress!”) Are they doing- wait- IS THIS BILLY JOEL?!” My friend Madeline confirmed it. I’m sorry, but that song is pretty fucking great- in my own little world. The rest of Joel, though, should not be revived, you’re right.
Just had to share.
Oh, and I totally love the “Rumours” album by Fleetwood Mac. I met (at another house show) the Denver band 8 Bucks Experiment (they portrayed (all but the oldest brother, Evan O.) the band in SLC punk, at the house show), and they started rocking out at this show that I joined them at in Concordia Fucking Missouri (yeah, it was some farm show- didn’t know these things existed), and the cute one (or so I thought at the time) asked as he had “Rumours” blasting from the van: “Do you like Fleetwood Mac?” I paused, and thought about it: And I was all, “yeah! I really do!”
So, some of that could be revisited (FM), in my book.
I’m guessing every band that we’ve mentioned that should not be brought back, under no circumstances- has been.
oh, Geoff:
I guess some of us (my boyfriend, myself, and many punks (I’m not a punk, obviously- just a slut for music- except fucking jam bands)- LOVE THE DAMNED. I used to get requests for them all of the time, when I was an undergrad, with nothing better to do but play d.j.
I called my boyfriend this past December from Scotland, as The Damned, along with a bunch of other old, legendary, punk bands were playing one night- but it was 40 pounds, or something. I had to make financial decisions, based on my American Dollar. But, if my boyfriend had been there, as I immediately called him, to let him know: “God, THE DAMNED ARE PLAYING! If you were here, I’d go- but it’s 40 pounds”.
So, maybe a bunch of us from Lawrence, KS are fucking sick in the head; but I really think it’s just that they never really went away. Revive them away!
I gotta New Rose, I got it good….
Wonderful to see the elderly cleaning out their brain cells from time to time. No doubt Journey will be playing at the old-folks home of your choice…. over and over again.
If you really have nothing better to do, why not get out your BOSTON lps?
For shame, whoever started this asinine thread.
You must be driven out of town.
*grabs torch and pitchfork*
I totally agree, Kyle. I really must start working on this stupid Minuchin family therapy analysis (ick). (I fuck around on threads as an act of avoidance)
Torch and pitchfork!
While I agree with the original commenter who was responding to a statement like “all of your music sucks,” that such a statement is lame, I have to beg to differ with this interpretation of the Beatles.
The fact that someone uses The Beatles to support that kind of view shouldn’t tarnish the band’s music. If you don’t like them, that’s fine, but I wouldn’t say they are for people with no musical curiosity. They were, more or less, my introduction to rock music; if anything, they enhanced my curiosity.
you know what i HATE? the “scene queens” with outrageously big multi-colored hair that are hangers-on for bands and are basically the “alternative” equivalent of paris hilton. anyone know of jeffree star? ;p
that said, i love a lot of the bands i was into in high school and college, like jeff buckley, elliott smith, nirvana, NIN, no doubt, incubus, 311. i’ll admit to being a linkin park fan. i’m also really into jazz, blues, hip-hop and whatever weirdness i can find. amy winehouse and gym class heroes are making me happy right now. tomorrow i’m going to see The Academy Is… and leave before fallout boy comes on.
i’ll also admit to loving the emo-pop music on an aesthetic level. AFI is prettiful stuff that makes me want to practice my guitar. right now i’m really into my chemical romance. well, my 8th grade students thought i was pretty damn cool. haha.
um basically, i think at a month shy of 29, i’m too old to give a shit about being cool anymore.
but i think the new kids on the block need a revival. i’ve been listening to them again with two other friends, quite unironically. bel biv devoe and sir mix-a-lot, too.
OH! OH! and what about this brief tease at a guns n’ roses revival with a new song that i heard a total of ONCE? GnR need to come back and i am not trying to be hip or facetious at all…they were big for me in elementary and middle school. good times. my parents were not amused at my ten year old self trying to rock out to ‘paradise city.’
The hatred for pop music is sometimes astounding. Face it. You too frequently enjoy listening to it because it is designed to be listenable.
There is nothing ironic about joy, tap your foot, sing along and get over yourself for 3 minutes. Anybody who tries to cover up the fact that they are capable of having fun every once and a while instead of taking themselves so damn seriously all of the time is not a hipster, they are in fact, a crashing bore.
Anyone who has been saying that Neil Diamond’s music isn’t capable of being hip, in any context, needs to go and watch Pulp Fiction again.
“Best perhaps for you to stay in your hole with eight CD’s on repeat. Enjoy.”
Hey, I will, Mister!
Good day!
Sorry, EllenBrenna, I don’t enjoy three minute songs, unless the album version is less than seven munutes. In other words, I find long songs very exciting and some of them I dance to. Most of the songs I enjoy listening to are seven, ten, twelve, fifteen, twenty, thirty, even forty-five minutes long.
OK, your disdain for The Zep may finally prompt me to get off my ass and start that mp3 blog I’ve been intending to put up for like a year now, just so I can post an early bootleg that rocks so hard it puts everything else they ever did to shame. Seriously, Page must have had, like, four or five hands. And it’s not like LZ were ever “technically” good. It’s a totally different style, but at their best, they were playing with that same, raw feeling that punk is supposed to embody. S-K know of which they rock.
I’m waiting for the awkward, beefheartian, chunky-beat revival of bands like Bogshed or A Witness, or Can Of Bees era Soft Boys, anyway.
Well Jovan you are a precious snowflake…other people, mere humans who get pop songs stuck in their heads and catch themselves tapping their feet to the occasional disposable beat need to just accept that they are made happy by a piece of simplistic fluff that is designed to make them feel that way. Instead of wasting time coming up with ornate justifications for very human reactions.
Your visceral reaction to pop music does not define the limits of your taste.
Hey, Cheesestaek the Impaler —
No, my awesomely cool boyfriend does not read GQ. Apparently you do, which makes you fairly lame.
The point is, at a certain age, you like what you like because it makes you happy, not because of what a certain magazine or website says. I love my awesomely cool boyfriend for many reasons, but one is because he loves awesomely uncool music because it makes him happy, and it makes me happy that he is happy.
Well, Ellen, you’re right about the pop music thing. But, I’m gonna clarify what I meant earlier about the seven-minute policy I have when I play music. Here is an example from Wikipedia:
Longer versions
With the AOR format, the full-length album version was favored for airplay rather than the edited versions for the 45 RPM single and top forty radio.
Songs in bold are ones in which I will favor the pop edit (45 RPM single) of.
Aerosmith - “Sweet Emotion” - 4:34 (album) v. 3:01 (single)
Argent - “Hold Your Head Up” - 6:15 (album) v. 3:15 (single)
Creedence Clearwater Revival - “Susie Q” - 8:37 (album) v. 4:22 (single)
The Doors - “Light My Fire” - 7:08 (album) v. 2:52 (single)
Derek and the Dominos - “Layla” - 7:10 (album) v. 2:43 (single)
Dire Straits - “Money for Nothing” - 8:26 (album) v. 4:09 (single)
Eagles - “Lyin’ Eyes” - 6:21 (album) v. 3:58 (single)
Foghat - “Slow Ride” - 8:25 (album) v. 3:45 (single)
Golden Earring - “Radar Love” - 6:25 (album) v. 5:01 (single), “Twilight Zone” - 7:55 (album) v. 4:49 (single)
Peter Frampton - “Do You Feel Like We Do” - 13:45 (album) v. 7:19 (single)
Iron Butterfly - “In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida” - 17:03 (album) v. 2:52 (single)
Billy Joel - “Piano Man” - 5:45 (album) v. 3:05 (single)
Kansas - “Carry On Wayward Son” - 5:13 (album) v. 3:25 (single)
Little River Band - “It’s A Long Way There” - 8:39 (album) v. 4:16 (single)
Loggins & Messina - “Angry Eyes” - 7:42 (album) v. 2:23 (single)
Manfred Mann’s Earth Band - “Blinded by the Light” - 7:07 (album) v. 3:48 (single)
Nilsson - “Jump Into The Fire” - 6:54 (album) v. 3:37 (single)
Pink Floyd - “Money” - 6:26 (album) v. 4:20 (single)
The Rolling Stones - You Can’t Always Get What You Want - 7:31 (album) v. 4:49 (single)
Steppenwolf - “Magic Carpet Ride” - 4:30 (album) v. 2:55 (single)
Sweet - “Love Is Like Oxygen” - 6:49 (album) v. 3:44 (single)
Vandenberg - “Burning Heart” - 4:11 (album) v. 3:34 (single)
Vanilla Fudge - “You Keep Me Hangin’ On” - 6:45 (album) v. 2:59 (single)
The Who - “Won’t Get Fooled Again” - 8:33 (album) v. 3:37 (single), “Who Are You” - 6:20 (album) v. 5:01 (single)
Rush - “2112 Overture” - 20:33 (album) v. 6:48 (single)
Jethro Tull - “Thick As a Brick” - 43:49 (album) v. 3:30 (single)
Emerson, Lake & Palmer - “Karn Evil 9″ - 29:34 (album) v. 4:50 (single)
Steve Miller Band - “Jet Airliner” - 5:31 (album) v. 4:38 (single), “Fly Like an Eagle” - 5:56 (album) v. 3:00 (single)
Prince - “I Wanna Be Your Lover” - 5:51 (album) v. 2:55 (single); “Dirty Mind” - 4:17 (album) v. 3:49 (single); “Uptown” - 5:31 (album) v. 4:12 (single); “Controversy” - 7:15 (album) v. 3:35 (single); “Do Me, Baby” - 7:40 (album) v. 3:56 (single); “Automatic” - 9:28 (album) v. 3:37 (single) “1999″ - 6:22 (album) v. 3:36 (single); “Delirious” - 4:00 (album) v. 2:39 (single); “Sign “O” the Times” - 4:57 (album) v. 3:42 (single); “Adore” - 6:30 (album) v. 4:40 (single); “If I Was Your Girlfriend” - 5:00 (album) v. 3:46 (single); “I Could Never Take the Place of Your Man” - 6:30 (album) v. 3:37 (single); “Diamonds and Pearls” - 4:44 (album) v. 4:20 (single); “My Name Is Prince” - 6:32 (album) v. 4:04 (single)
Prince & the Revolution - “When Doves Cry” - 5:54 (album) v. 3:47 (single); “Purple Rain” - 8:40 (album) v. 4:11 (single)
ZZ Top - “Legs” - 4:34 (album) v. 3:36 (single)
Genesis - “Abacab” - 6:56 (album) v. 4:10 (single); “Tonight Tonight Tonight” - 8:46 (album) v. 4:30 (single)
Bruce Springsteen - “Human Touch” - 6:32 (album) v. 5:10 (single)
The O’ Jays - “Darling Darling Baby” - 4:20 (album) v. 3:00 (single)
Yes - “America” - 10:33 (album) v. 4:12 (single), “The Gates Delirium” 21:55 v. “Soon” 4:18, “Sound Chaser” - 9:28 (album) v. 3:12 (single)
The Time - “Cool” 10:06 (album) v. 3:12 (single), Get It Up - 9:09 (album) v. 3:01 (single), “777-9311″ 8:08 (album) v. 3:25 (single), “Jungle Love” 5:33 (album) v. 3:24 (single), “The Bird” - 7:43 (album) v. 3:41 (single)
Nobody has mentioned Blue Oyster Cult or Todd Rundgren? Both definitely worth another listen, as are Moody Blues (mentioned at least once above). Neil Diamond? Yes!! Absolutely. He’s a freaking genius writer of pop songs. Tom Jones? maybe not, but you could make a case for it. Better him than Billy Joel.
Dolly Parton, Loretta Lynn, Johnny Cash, et. al — definitely deserving of a revival. BeeGees? not totally my thing, but OK. Spector-produced girl bands — hell yeah. Carpenters? Why not? ABBA? Oh, all right.
But Queen? Queen??? I’m sorry, but no. Just no. Don’t get me started on this.
Motorhead? never heard of ‘em. And I can’t really say I’m all that familiar with Journey, either. Let them languish in obscurity for all I care.
But just exactly when did Richard & Linda Thompson, old Fairport, etc. go out of style? Or the Ramones? Did I miss something? A ‘revival’ hardly seems necessary. Maybe ‘finally being recognized for the geniuses they are’ is more in order.
Of course, I’ve secretly liked Zeppelin all along too, so I’m hardly one to talk. I guess I’ll just hit ‘blaspheme’ now.
Journey?!
Guh. They’re awful. But I do own Journey’s greatest hits. Every once in a while the mood strikes for some truly awful 80’s music. Guilty pleasures and all.
I, like half of Chicago, went crazy for “Don’t Stop” back in 2005. It was the White Sox unofficial anthem. I would have that song playing on auto-repeat during every game, beginning to end. Thank god they ended Houston in 4 games. I couldn’t take too much more “Don’t Stop”. Even if I could, I think I had a throng of neighbors outside my door with torches and pitchforks.
On the REO front, there was a comic strip in my college paper (U of Illinois-Urbana/Champaign) where the running joke (at least once a week) involved REO. Champaign, Illinois is responsible for that travesty.
But come on man. Zeppelin rules to the end of time. Just quit playing that damn stairway.
Journey?!
Guh. They’re awful. But I do own Journey’s greatest hits. Every once in a while the mood strikes for some truly awful 80’s music. Guilty pleasures and all.
I, like half of Chicago, went crazy for “Don’t Stop” back in 2005. It was the White Sox unofficial anthem. I would have that song playing on auto-repeat during every game, beginning to end. Thank god they ended Houston in 4 games. I couldn’t take too much more “Don’t Stop”. Even if I could, I think I had a throng of neighbors outside my door with torches and pitchforks.
On the REO front, there was a comic strip in my college paper (U of Illinois-Urbana/Champaign) where the running joke (at least once a week) involved REO. Champaign, Illinois is responsible for that travesty.
But come on man. Zeppelin rules to the end of time. Just quit playing that damn stairway.
And the Ramones (*gasp*) suck. They designed themselves to sell out. Bunch of wannabe’s.
Could not figure out WTF you were all talking about. So I broke out the dictionariez and tried to get oriented. Lost cause. Being old must suck because it makes me think What I do because I don’t have a life is somehow more authentic than what twentyish persons do because they don’t have a life.
If I quit my day job I’d have enough time to start some sort of blog where all the subtle and not so subtle cultural and legal outrages against, and insensitive disenfranchisments of, older [but not palsied ancient droolers] and formerly cool people would be spelled out, pointed out and taken apart. It would be a blog where all the other cranky old people who suck at being old could get stuff off their chest or bask in the warm glow of a just and petty rage. (well, I would if I could write… and if anyone else approaching retirement were whiling away their days on line…
“The Grey Temples of Pandagon” would be a suggested title for the on line presence but its not likely that franchise is for sale. AH, I got it. the title has to have the word “cool” in it because that is one of the verbal markers of a resident of the ghetto of middle age.
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Then again, Jovan 1984 has a damn good list of cuts there, and the choice of long vs short versions looks pretty good too.
Alls I know is that at my local, Don’t Stop Believing is soooo overplayed on the jukebox that regulars will yell at the bartender to skip it as soon as they hear the opening bars. And it’s been that way for three or four years at least. I personally will leave the room if I hear it.
Aargh, I thought this thread was finished with me, but it still has legs. Curses on music trivia conversations!! I just can’t stop . . .
“BeeGees? not totally my thing, but OK.”
Actually, listen to their first albums–1st, Horizontal, and Idea. Before the leisure suits, they were making near perfect pure pop psychedelic gems, really beautiful stuff. And just like Abba, they have too much of a peculiar sound and sensibility NOT to be visionaries of some kind. PURE GENIUS.
“And the Ramones (*gasp*) suck. They designed themselves to sell out. Bunch of wannabe’s.”
Dude, get yr punk history straight. They could not be wannabe’s, because there were no punk purist ideals to aspire to when they started the band–they didn’t even exist. The Ramones thought they were straight up rock band.
It was the Brits and the CBGB’s crowd who came along and declared punk to be more a haircut, lifestyle and political stance than a form of pop music. What makes the Ramones punk is their sound–buzzsaw sugar fueled 2-minute dashes to the finish line. Beach Boys songs with nothing but chorus. No arena rock guitar ornamentation. Reactionary pop pushing against Pink Floyd and Zeppelin.
The Ramones were the source of the WORD punk, not the actual rules and regulations that popped up later to separate the “wannabes” from the hardcore elite.
Well, the keyboard player in my band likes journey, but, you know, he’s a keyboard player.
A couple of their songs are kind of catchy, though, and from what I can tell hipsterism is basically about liking catchy music and inventing more pretensious reasons to like it, so journey could become a “hipster revival” at some point.
“Motorhead? never heard of ‘em.”
Alphabitch, I recommend you immediately click on over to some MP3 blog and listen to “Ace of Spades.” It will be a life changing experience. Then listen to some early Hawkwind, Lemmy’s first band. You find yourself asking, what the hell happened to this hippy between the 70’s and 80’s?
Hmmmm, too much speed, perhaps?
All this talk about Journey and nobody mentions their Canadian competition, Loverboy.
Mike Reno could belt it out as good as Steve Perry.
The Kid is Hot Tonight
(Everybody’s) Workin’ for the Weekend
Gangs in the Street
Turn Me Loose
Lucky Ones
Pop rock and unashamedly so.
As far as Journey, “Lights” is on my most-popular personal mix. I agree that “Frontiers” pretty much closed them out though.
The point wasn’t that 3 minutes should be the standard for the length of a song just that is frequently is the standard for the length of a song.
Yes the extended versions of those songs are better but that was hardly the point. Oy.
Why do we insist on calling pop songs guilty pleasures? I thought we were all about harmless pleasure as a moral good here at Pandagon?
The Journey hipster revival came and went about five years ago, at least here in LA. You couldn’t go to a party w/o hearing “Faithfully” or “Separate Ways” in all their ironic glory, and the T-Shirt index definitely confirmed the trend. Cheap Trick, The Cars, Bon Jovi, Styx, Kansas, and Yes also came and went during this period. I think the appearance of Supertramp and ELO on high profile soundtracks pushed that wave.
I’ve seen a ton of hair metal T-Shirts in the last year or so (Ratt, Poison, Whitesnake, Night Ranger, Slayer et al) but never hear the music, which is understandable, because it’s absolute garbage.
Personally, I think late 70’s/80’s heavy metal - Scorpions, Judas Priest, UFO, Ted Nugent, Motorhead, BOC, Deep Purple - are due for hipster revivalization. Good, fun, stupid music that a lot of people grew up with, professed to hate at the time, but probably still owned. Also, poppy 80’s shit like Go-Go’s, B-52’s, Duran Duran, Squeeze is coming soon.
It seems to me the hipster revival runs on a 20-25 year cycle (orig. breakthrough to ironic reembrace), but the artist has to have been extremely popular though pretty much universally dismissed or critically disdained at the time of their original run. So, The Police probably won’t get hipster retred cred, while Men at Work or Huey Lewis & The News would.
Just let me know when the John Cougar and REM revivals start, so I can kill myself.
As Fer Reals and Anna Phors already mentioned, the Journey revival has come and gone in some areas. In fact, the Sopranos finale effectively killed any life that remained in that revival here in B-more. To illustrate just how quickly nostalgia moves now, my favorite bar is experiencing a [i]Wilco[/i] revival.
The Loverboy revival was kicked off two years ago, courtesy of Barrester. Apart from that video, and the Loverboy song mentioned on “South Park” about pig and elephant DNA not splicing, I think that was it.
Journey has always struck me as a Midwest thing. You get outside of IL, IN, MI, WI, and OH, I bet you won’t hear half of the Journey songs that get constantly played to this day. Likewise, you go to Boston, you’ll hear more Aerosmith songs than you knew existed if you just went by airplay. You can substitute “Cheap Trick,” “REO Speedwagon,” and “Bob Seger” for Journey, and the sentence will still read the same.
For reasons that I have yet to fathom, Sammy Hagar has been monstrously popular in Saint Louis since his days with Montrose back in the 1970s. He’s making an appearance this week to promote a DVD filmed in town last year; his show at the Pageant sold out in two minutes (source). Not being originally from STL, I don’t get the city’s quasi-necrophiliac love of the past, but even by those standards, I’m puzzled by the long-standing love affair with the Red Rocker.
Oh, and I’m going to be on the lookout for a big man, as there’s a big, fat line on the rock flowchart connecting Slade to Cheap Trick and KISS, as well as a nice dotted line to a fair amount of hair-metal bands. I’m not too enamored of the latter, even in a non-ironic fashion owing to actually living through “Unskinny Bop” and “Cherry Pie” receiving heavy rotation on MTV and radio. Slade at least has aged well, given that those guys were already pretty ugly to begin with.
Ha! Dr. Locrian — it wasn’t the speed, it was this womyn’s music phase I went through at some point, sort of between the punk rock phase and the Serious Folk Music phase. Although I kept all my Richard Thompson, Frank Zappa, Capt. Beefheart, Leonard Cohen, and Tom Waits records just in case. And before all that (and overlapping) were the Classical, Jazz, and pre-Baroque phases. The only time I listened to the radio was when I was hosting a show & playing my own records.
I cultivated an aura of cluelessness regarding popular culture generally. The coolest part of alla that, though, is that I’m discovering all kinds of things that never caught my ear when they were all over the damn place. Like somebody gave me Matthew Sweet’s ‘Girlfriend’ recently and I couldn’t believe it had totally passed me by. Likewise ‘Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots.’ So I will take your advice re: Motorhead. And I guess I’ll give the BeeGees a re-listen as well and see if I can’t generate a little more enthusiasm.
oops Dr. L. — it wasn’t me you were calling an old hippy - although the shoe fits pretty well (ahem). I’m definitely going to add a little Motorhead to the randomizer. And that other band too. Thanks.
And Norbiz: “Substitute their record label’s first signing: Bad Company.” A big hell yeah to that!
Was gonna ignore this, but the anal music nerd in me just can’t NOT respond to this comment.
So, in the spirit of harmless High Fidelity fun:
stc wrote:
“I’ve seen a ton of hair metal T-Shirts in the last year or so (Ratt, Poison, Whitesnake, Night Ranger, Slayer et al) but never hear the music, which is understandable, because it’s absolute garbage.”
1st objection: since when has Slayer ever stood next to Night Ranger and Whitesnake?!! They’d eat the bands on this list for breakfast.
And 2nd objection: Ratt and Poison are Aqua-Net anointed rock gods.
And hasn’t the ironic hair metal t-shirt trend been around at least as long as the New New Wave trend (4-5 years)? I know this because my old Ratt and Poison t-shirts from the 80’s suddenly attracted a lot of POSITIVE attention starting right after Y2K. Except that I wasn’t wearing them to be ironic.
stc:
“Personally, I think late 70’s/80’s heavy metal - Scorpions, Judas Priest, UFO, Ted Nugent, Motorhead, BOC, Deep Purple - are due for hipster revivalization. Good, fun, stupid music that a lot of people grew up with, professed to hate at the time, but probably still owned. Also, poppy 80’s shit like Go-Go’s, B-52’s, Duran Duran, Squeeze is coming soon.”
Okay, even if you’re playing the NWOBHM and AOR classic rock against the LA hairspray poodles, I don’t see how bands like Cinderella, Ratt and Poison AREN’T “good, fun, stupid music that a lot of people grew up with, professed to hate at the time, but probably still owned.”
Also, where have you been regarding Duran Duran? The Killers owe Simon LeBon their careers, and don’t forget The Bravery, She Wants Revenge, Lansing Dreiden, The Rapture, LCD Soundsystem, and countless other hordes. Striped shirts, Flashdance sweatshirts and leg warmers, studded belts, skinny ties, slanty dyed haircuts, 80’s themed dance parties everywhere–it’s been 1983 for about 5 years now. We’re in the middle of the long, decadent, downhill slope of this revival–even The Killers are cribbing Springsteen and U2 instead of the New Romantics.
It’s been great fun, but we’re about to say sayonara to the New Wave redux era. I think the Horrors might point the way to a new direction for this style: straight into Misfits/Cramps garage psychobilly.
Oh, and The Go-Gos, B-52, Duran Duran and Squeeze are all awesome.
Okay, signing off.