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	<title>Comments on: Laura Flanders is on our side</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/25/laura-flanders-is-on-our-side/</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 00:23:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: CJ White</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/25/laura-flanders-is-on-our-side/#comment-410904</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 May 2007 03:23:32 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/25/laura-flanders-is-on-our-side/#comment-410904</guid>
					<description>greensmile


Buy an inexpensive, used notebook computer that has wireless access.  You can keep it in that cute magazine basket next to the potty.  I'm just saying...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>greensmile</p>
	<p>Buy an inexpensive, used notebook computer that has wireless access.  You can keep it in that cute magazine basket next to the potty.  I&#8217;m just saying&#8230;
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		<title>by: greensmile</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/25/laura-flanders-is-on-our-side/#comment-410048</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 May 2007 21:20:35 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/25/laura-flanders-is-on-our-side/#comment-410048</guid>
					<description>I am not under the impression that significant numbers of people are influenced by blogs.  I am under the impression that  the net has help forged a workable aliance of progressives who were geographically spread too thin to be effective before. 

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;you need to shoulder your way into the newspaper or get onto the radio they listen to at work.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;  ...which is why I joined Operation Democracy and work to leverage those who we &lt;i&gt;do&lt;/i&gt; reach via email and blogs into a crowd that will show up with placards on busy street corners ... that is how we get our message on TV.  Our crowds are growing.  The many issues that you can cover in a blog make no sense on a street corner.  voting reform for example will wait.  the crowds are growing because of the war and that is enough for now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I am not under the impression that significant numbers of people are influenced by blogs.  I am under the impression that  the net has help forged a workable aliance of progressives who were geographically spread too thin to be effective before. </p>
	<blockquote><p><i>you need to shoulder your way into the newspaper or get onto the radio they listen to at work.</i></blockquote>
  &#8230;which is why I joined Operation Democracy and work to leverage those who we <i>do</i> reach via email and blogs into a crowd that will show up with placards on busy street corners &#8230; that is how we get our message on TV.  Our crowds are growing.  The many issues that you can cover in a blog make no sense on a street corner.  voting reform for example will wait.  the crowds are growing because of the war and that is enough for now.
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		<title>by: CBrachyrhynchos</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/25/laura-flanders-is-on-our-side/#comment-410016</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 May 2007 19:34:10 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/25/laura-flanders-is-on-our-side/#comment-410016</guid>
					<description>greensmile: I'm just thinking in terms of the reach of blogs period.  When you look at the total &quot;blogosphere&quot; political blogs like Pandagon and Kos are a minority both in terms of number of writers and audience share.  The revolutionary nature of blogs is a myth, prompted by severe self-selection bias.  Most of the blogging writing and reading world is apolitical and personal.

And then looking at blogs in the context of the community activism, they are not where the action is.  The action is going on through word-of-mouth and local media visibility.  If you want to reach community activists like my parents, you need to shoulder your way into the newspaper or get onto the radio they listen to at work.  Or hit the word of mouth networks.  The head-up-the-asshole narcissism of new media advocacy results in ceding entire audiences to the right, which is willing to invest in local radio, television and print.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>greensmile: I&#8217;m just thinking in terms of the reach of blogs period.  When you look at the total &#8220;blogosphere&#8221; political blogs like Pandagon and Kos are a minority both in terms of number of writers and audience share.  The revolutionary nature of blogs is a myth, prompted by severe self-selection bias.  Most of the blogging writing and reading world is apolitical and personal.</p>
	<p>And then looking at blogs in the context of the community activism, they are not where the action is.  The action is going on through word-of-mouth and local media visibility.  If you want to reach community activists like my parents, you need to shoulder your way into the newspaper or get onto the radio they listen to at work.  Or hit the word of mouth networks.  The head-up-the-asshole narcissism of new media advocacy results in ceding entire audiences to the right, which is willing to invest in local radio, television and print.
</p>
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		<title>by: greensmile</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/25/laura-flanders-is-on-our-side/#comment-409960</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 May 2007 16:24:54 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/25/laura-flanders-is-on-our-side/#comment-409960</guid>
					<description>CBrachyrhynchos

for all my raving about the wake-up that blogs have been for me, I keep a few dead tree journals in buisness.  My favorite these days is Vanity Fair. [ VF has a web presence but I can't read web pages on the pot, my longest stretch of quiet time these days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>CBrachyrhynchos</p>
	<p>for all my raving about the wake-up that blogs have been for me, I keep a few dead tree journals in buisness.  My favorite these days is Vanity Fair. [ VF has a web presence but I can&#8217;t read web pages on the pot, my longest stretch of quiet time these days.
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		<title>by: latts</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/25/laura-flanders-is-on-our-side/#comment-409876</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 May 2007 13:33:05 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/25/laura-flanders-is-on-our-side/#comment-409876</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;Note that he is still talking about â€śinternal conflictsâ€? re actual gay marriage. I just donâ€™t understand whatâ€™s up with that, unless it is an expression of a sincere belief in Christian-dictated patriarchy.&lt;/i&gt;

I imagine it's mostly a matter of his continuing cultural identification with the South and/or the working classes, whether sincere or politically motivated.  He's probably argue against patriarchy per se-- after all, he has a smart wife and a couple of daughters-- but he's still got some traditionalist leanings.  And we can't forget that he's not 35 or 40, even though he looks it; he's a full generation, or even two, older than most of us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Note that he is still talking about â€śinternal conflictsâ€? re actual gay marriage. I just donâ€™t understand whatâ€™s up with that, unless it is an expression of a sincere belief in Christian-dictated patriarchy.</i></p>
	<p>I imagine it&#8217;s mostly a matter of his continuing cultural identification with the South and/or the working classes, whether sincere or politically motivated.  He&#8217;s probably argue against patriarchy per se&#8211; after all, he has a smart wife and a couple of daughters&#8211; but he&#8217;s still got some traditionalist leanings.  And we can&#8217;t forget that he&#8217;s not 35 or 40, even though he looks it; he&#8217;s a full generation, or even two, older than most of us.
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		<title>by: has_te</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/25/laura-flanders-is-on-our-side/#comment-409862</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 May 2007 13:03:33 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/25/laura-flanders-is-on-our-side/#comment-409862</guid>
					<description>It's all just because we Montanans are really just awfully good people.
Better'n you all actually, at several levels.
And existentially so too, if I may say.

Ahem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It&#8217;s all just because we Montanans are really just awfully good people.<br />
Better&#8217;n you all actually, at several levels.<br />
And existentially so too, if I may say.</p>
	<p>Ahem.
</p>
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		<title>by: greensmile</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/25/laura-flanders-is-on-our-side/#comment-409795</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 May 2007 11:13:28 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/25/laura-flanders-is-on-our-side/#comment-409795</guid>
					<description>A good and, importantly, a hope-inspiring interview, Amanda.

I quibble however with this:&lt;blockquote&gt;With some exceptions, grassroots organizers are not writing blogs, they are organizing people. This is why I had literally to travel the states to get their stories because theyâ€™re not written down anywhere. Grassroots activists know what they do, and they talk to each other, but itâ€™s rarely written about. Bloggers may think of themselves as activists, but theyâ€™re not in the streets.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Like any generalization, this assertion [observation] has plenty of examples in support but the exceptions alluded to should not be discounted.  Not that many people ever really change their mind but both the reading and the writing of blogs really can help people not formerly politically engaged to find their voice and discover what their own feelings are on all kinds of issues.  The discovery of like minds, concentrated in a comment thread and uncovered from the camoflage of workaday living, can help transform one form closet liberal to activist.  For years I lurked on MoveOn's email list and did nothing.  My blogging began as self expression and complaint. But the exercise eventually lends itself to transformative learning.  The fact that blogging is only words in HTML for all to see makes the &quot;its just talk&quot; charge easy to apply but I looked over a series of my posts and found that I have actually gone from complainer to organizer in part because I have exposed myself to supportive company.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://pithingcontest.blogspot.com/2007/05/to-streets.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Now I am very much in the streets&lt;/a&gt; and I will keep up the blog because it may encourage others toward the same transition as I made. [I am resisting the urge to link the entire sequence of posts in which I progress from complaint (which is incessant) to discovery to involvement to recruitment...I have already poached enough traffic from your comment threads ;-]

Bottom line, however, is: sincere thanks for bringing Laura to our attention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>A good and, importantly, a hope-inspiring interview, Amanda.</p>
	<p>I quibble however with this:<br />
<blockquote>With some exceptions, grassroots organizers are not writing blogs, they are organizing people. This is why I had literally to travel the states to get their stories because theyâ€™re not written down anywhere. Grassroots activists know what they do, and they talk to each other, but itâ€™s rarely written about. Bloggers may think of themselves as activists, but theyâ€™re not in the streets.</p></blockquote>
	<p>Like any generalization, this assertion [observation] has plenty of examples in support but the exceptions alluded to should not be discounted.  Not that many people ever really change their mind but both the reading and the writing of blogs really can help people not formerly politically engaged to find their voice and discover what their own feelings are on all kinds of issues.  The discovery of like minds, concentrated in a comment thread and uncovered from the camoflage of workaday living, can help transform one form closet liberal to activist.  For years I lurked on MoveOn&#8217;s email list and did nothing.  My blogging began as self expression and complaint. But the exercise eventually lends itself to transformative learning.  The fact that blogging is only words in HTML for all to see makes the &#8220;its just talk&#8221; charge easy to apply but I looked over a series of my posts and found that I have actually gone from complainer to organizer in part because I have exposed myself to supportive company.  <a href="http://pithingcontest.blogspot.com/2007/05/to-streets.html" rel="nofollow">Now I am very much in the streets</a> and I will keep up the blog because it may encourage others toward the same transition as I made. [I am resisting the urge to link the entire sequence of posts in which I progress from complaint (which is incessant) to discovery to involvement to recruitment&#8230;I have already poached enough traffic from your comment threads ;-]</p>
	<p>Bottom line, however, is: sincere thanks for bringing Laura to our attention.
</p>
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		<title>by: purpleshoes</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/25/laura-flanders-is-on-our-side/#comment-409758</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 May 2007 08:04:18 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/25/laura-flanders-is-on-our-side/#comment-409758</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;Bloggers may think of themselves as activists, but their not in the streets.&lt;/i&gt; 

O hai u haz typo. Just a headsup.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Bloggers may think of themselves as activists, but their not in the streets.</i> </p>
	<p>O hai u haz typo. Just a headsup.
</p>
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		<title>by: Mark Foxwell</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/25/laura-flanders-is-on-our-side/#comment-409751</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 May 2007 03:35:51 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/25/laura-flanders-is-on-our-side/#comment-409751</guid>
					<description>Um, I posted re the reluctance of Dem candidates to come right and say they think gayness is OK before reading the post just below by Pam about Edwards.

Note that he is still talking about &quot;internal conflicts&quot; re actual gay marriage. I just don't understand what's up with that, unless it is an expression of a sincere belief in Christian-dictated patriarchy.

Note that I don't think this means Edwards is some kind of evil Trojan Horse or anything like that. Objectively speaking he's clearly way less patriarchial than most candidates--than Hillary, for instance. But I just don't see any logic in going so far toward recognizing the full humanity of queer folk and then stumbling there unless he really thinks that somehow or other marriage is a magically blessed mystical union and he fears blaspheming against God--and that would imply he thinks &lt;em&gt;God&lt;/em&gt; might be &quot;conflicted,&quot; which sort of undermines the whole committment on his part. Better someone with a good heart and mostly clear mind who is haunted by a few ghosts and demons, than someone more cynical--but that's still not a &quot;I've got no problems with gayness, why should anyone?&quot; Now is it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Um, I posted re the reluctance of Dem candidates to come right and say they think gayness is OK before reading the post just below by Pam about Edwards.</p>
	<p>Note that he is still talking about &#8220;internal conflicts&#8221; re actual gay marriage. I just don&#8217;t understand what&#8217;s up with that, unless it is an expression of a sincere belief in Christian-dictated patriarchy.</p>
	<p>Note that I don&#8217;t think this means Edwards is some kind of evil Trojan Horse or anything like that. Objectively speaking he&#8217;s clearly way less patriarchial than most candidates&#8211;than Hillary, for instance. But I just don&#8217;t see any logic in going so far toward recognizing the full humanity of queer folk and then stumbling there unless he really thinks that somehow or other marriage is a magically blessed mystical union and he fears blaspheming against God&#8211;and that would imply he thinks <em>God</em> might be &#8220;conflicted,&#8221; which sort of undermines the whole committment on his part. Better someone with a good heart and mostly clear mind who is haunted by a few ghosts and demons, than someone more cynical&#8211;but that&#8217;s still not a &#8220;I&#8217;ve got no problems with gayness, why should anyone?&#8221; Now is it?
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		<title>by: Mark Foxwell</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/25/laura-flanders-is-on-our-side/#comment-409750</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 May 2007 03:29:14 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/25/laura-flanders-is-on-our-side/#comment-409750</guid>
					<description>&lt;blockquote&gt; Jake Squid 
May 26th, 2007 at 1:27 am
 
...When I was working w/ the local Green party I repeatedly suggested the idea of community outreach (an office where neighborhood folks could find help for various stuff and so on) as a way of creating a positive presence. Unfortunately, most of the Greens are stuck in the politics is only in the voting mode and there was zero support for the idea.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That is so ironic! When I moved to Humboldt County in 1992, I made sure to register Green to give the new party a chance to get onto the ballot, and looked forward to active participation. But I found no organization whatsoever to hook up to. The upshot was I had disfranchised myself from the primary elections, because the Greens weren't running anybody. In 1994 we moved to Sonoma County; I kept my Green affiliation, again disfranchising myself from the primary--and was explicitly told by some Green or other &quot;Hey dude, we're, like, the party that doesn't believe in parties and elections and all that materialist crap.&quot; Well, that's not what I thought from reading Charline Spretnak and Rudolf Bahro and going to Green meetings in LA, so I just gave up and registered Democratic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<blockquote><p> Jake Squid<br />
May 26th, 2007 at 1:27 am</p>
	<p>&#8230;When I was working w/ the local Green party I repeatedly suggested the idea of community outreach (an office where neighborhood folks could find help for various stuff and so on) as a way of creating a positive presence. Unfortunately, most of the Greens are stuck in the politics is only in the voting mode and there was zero support for the idea.</p></blockquote>
	<p>That is so ironic! When I moved to Humboldt County in 1992, I made sure to register Green to give the new party a chance to get onto the ballot, and looked forward to active participation. But I found no organization whatsoever to hook up to. The upshot was I had disfranchised myself from the primary elections, because the Greens weren&#8217;t running anybody. In 1994 we moved to Sonoma County; I kept my Green affiliation, again disfranchising myself from the primary&#8211;and was explicitly told by some Green or other &#8220;Hey dude, we&#8217;re, like, the party that doesn&#8217;t believe in parties and elections and all that materialist crap.&#8221; Well, that&#8217;s not what I thought from reading Charline Spretnak and Rudolf Bahro and going to Green meetings in LA, so I just gave up and registered Democratic.
</p>
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