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	<title>Comments on: Review: Lost Girls</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/21/review-lost-girls/</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 04:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Perverted News Roundup #4: Back in the Saddle Again at Literate Perversions</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/21/review-lost-girls/#comment-410398</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 May 2007 23:05:54 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/21/review-lost-girls/#comment-410398</guid>
					<description>[...] Amanda Marcotte Reviews Lost Girls (Pandagon): Lost Girls is a shamelessly pornographic comic by Alan Moore and Melinda Gebbie that features three characters from Victorian literature: Alice, from Alice in Wonderland; Dorothy Gale, of The Wizard of Oz;  and Wendy Darling, of Peter Pan. I think it&amp;#8217;s one of the best fucking pieces of comic art or pornography that I&amp;#8217;ve seen for a long time. Knowing Amanda Marcotte&amp;#8217;s views on pornography, when I saw that she had done a review for Pandagon, I was concerned that she&amp;#8217;d just rip it to shreds. Instead, she has a real appreciation for the work&amp;#8217;s complexity, and calls it a &amp;#8220;clear-cut assault&amp;#8230; on the horrible and degradging myth that posits that sex abuse victims should shut themselves off sexually forevermore.&amp;#8221; Bonus Link: Pictures of Moore and Gebbie&amp;#8217;s recent wedding, courtesy of Neil Gaiman. These are two people who can not only write and draw, but know how to dress. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[&#8230;] Amanda Marcotte Reviews Lost Girls (Pandagon): Lost Girls is a shamelessly pornographic comic by Alan Moore and Melinda Gebbie that features three characters from Victorian literature: Alice, from Alice in Wonderland; Dorothy Gale, of The Wizard of Oz;  and Wendy Darling, of Peter Pan. I think it&#8217;s one of the best fucking pieces of comic art or pornography that I&#8217;ve seen for a long time. Knowing Amanda Marcotte&#8217;s views on pornography, when I saw that she had done a review for Pandagon, I was concerned that she&#8217;d just rip it to shreds. Instead, she has a real appreciation for the work&#8217;s complexity, and calls it a &#8220;clear-cut assault&#8230; on the horrible and degradging myth that posits that sex abuse victims should shut themselves off sexually forevermore.&#8221; Bonus Link: Pictures of Moore and Gebbie&#8217;s recent wedding, courtesy of Neil Gaiman. These are two people who can not only write and draw, but know how to dress. [&#8230;]
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		<title>by: Chris H</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/21/review-lost-girls/#comment-410374</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 May 2007 21:37:04 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/21/review-lost-girls/#comment-410374</guid>
					<description>At the risk of being fannish and gossipy, I don't have anything much to add to the discussion except to say that Moore and Gebbie have created a remarkable work here. I look forward to reading it over and over, especially fueled by some of the thoughts here.

Also, the two creators recently got married. Neil Gaiman has wedding pix up on his &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.neilgaiman.com/journal/2007/05/some-photographs-from-wedding-of.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;blog&lt;/a&gt; for those interested. Those are some truly fabulous wedding duds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>At the risk of being fannish and gossipy, I don&#8217;t have anything much to add to the discussion except to say that Moore and Gebbie have created a remarkable work here. I look forward to reading it over and over, especially fueled by some of the thoughts here.</p>
	<p>Also, the two creators recently got married. Neil Gaiman has wedding pix up on his <a href="http://www.neilgaiman.com/journal/2007/05/some-photographs-from-wedding-of.html" rel="nofollow">blog</a> for those interested. Those are some truly fabulous wedding duds.
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		<title>by: The Constructivist</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/21/review-lost-girls/#comment-409716</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 May 2007 22:11:51 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/21/review-lost-girls/#comment-409716</guid>
					<description>Since no one's mentioned it yet, I'll note that there's an interesting erotica/mysticism sequence in Moore's &lt;i&gt;Promethea&lt;/i&gt; (his response to Gaiman's &lt;i&gt;Sandman&lt;/i&gt;, so far as I can tell, but also an attempt to create a female superhero in an alternate &quot;science fantasy&quot; present).  I still like Gaiman better, but if you like literature, mythology, and pop culture, you'll probably like &lt;i&gt;Promethea&lt;/i&gt; a lot. I did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Since no one&#8217;s mentioned it yet, I&#8217;ll note that there&#8217;s an interesting erotica/mysticism sequence in Moore&#8217;s <i>Promethea</i> (his response to Gaiman&#8217;s <i>Sandman</i>, so far as I can tell, but also an attempt to create a female superhero in an alternate &#8220;science fantasy&#8221; present).  I still like Gaiman better, but if you like literature, mythology, and pop culture, you&#8217;ll probably like <i>Promethea</i> a lot. I did.
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		<title>by: celyn</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/21/review-lost-girls/#comment-408979</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2007 12:39:07 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/21/review-lost-girls/#comment-408979</guid>
					<description>Stopping at volume 1 of the set is kind of like putting down Lord of the Rings after The Fellowship of the Ring.  The story has a definite arc that needs to be read to its conclusion. It's in the final book where the characters stop running away from their past and start to heal and become whole, even as the world around them is descending into madness.  

In fact, the trajectory of the characters is in direct opposition to the world around them (a mirror image, as it were).  As the book opens, the world is ordered and sane, but the characters are troubled and broken.  As they move towards sanity, the world outside begins to break down.  

One of the little touches in the story that I really like is the fact that Moore has created a maiden-mother-crone triad with the characters, even though he never explicitly says so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Stopping at volume 1 of the set is kind of like putting down Lord of the Rings after The Fellowship of the Ring.  The story has a definite arc that needs to be read to its conclusion. It&#8217;s in the final book where the characters stop running away from their past and start to heal and become whole, even as the world around them is descending into madness.  </p>
	<p>In fact, the trajectory of the characters is in direct opposition to the world around them (a mirror image, as it were).  As the book opens, the world is ordered and sane, but the characters are troubled and broken.  As they move towards sanity, the world outside begins to break down.  </p>
	<p>One of the little touches in the story that I really like is the fact that Moore has created a maiden-mother-crone triad with the characters, even though he never explicitly says so.
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		<title>by: laurelin</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/21/review-lost-girls/#comment-408837</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 May 2007 08:59:48 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/21/review-lost-girls/#comment-408837</guid>
					<description>Whoa.  Your review is right on, Amanda.

I got Lost Girls in the mail on a Friday and, instead of going out, read it from cover to cover.  The thing that kind of sparked an epiphany in me was the concept of sublimating your sexuality and replacing it with fantasyland while coming of age. I think it really hit home for me in a way that I imagine a lot of other women who withdrew into a world of books while growing up would also experience.  

I'm glad you explained the context for the victorian incest porn, I was kind of ignoring it- it made me pause for a bit but I'm glad I kept going because the end of the book is fantastic. 

Also, I don't like the wizard of oz musical/hollywood movie but love the oz books, and I thought Dorothy was spot on.  And I actually respected Wendy for the first time ever- never understood that whole 'mother' thing where she is the lost boys' 'mother'- it always weirded me out. Liked that bit much better in Lost Girls, it made more intuitive sense than the original (to me, anyway).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Whoa.  Your review is right on, Amanda.</p>
	<p>I got Lost Girls in the mail on a Friday and, instead of going out, read it from cover to cover.  The thing that kind of sparked an epiphany in me was the concept of sublimating your sexuality and replacing it with fantasyland while coming of age. I think it really hit home for me in a way that I imagine a lot of other women who withdrew into a world of books while growing up would also experience.  </p>
	<p>I&#8217;m glad you explained the context for the victorian incest porn, I was kind of ignoring it- it made me pause for a bit but I&#8217;m glad I kept going because the end of the book is fantastic. </p>
	<p>Also, I don&#8217;t like the wizard of oz musical/hollywood movie but love the oz books, and I thought Dorothy was spot on.  And I actually respected Wendy for the first time ever- never understood that whole &#8216;mother&#8217; thing where she is the lost boys&#8217; &#8216;mother&#8217;- it always weirded me out. Liked that bit much better in Lost Girls, it made more intuitive sense than the original (to me, anyway).
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		<title>by: The Dark Avenger</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/21/review-lost-girls/#comment-408597</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 17:03:20 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/21/review-lost-girls/#comment-408597</guid>
					<description>The idea of being &quot;broken&quot; reminds me of the fate of some of the protagonists of H.P. Lovecraft's fiction, who either end up

dead

insane from their experience

unable to tell the world the whole truth, which is why the tale ends up in a 10-cent pulp magazine instead of the front page of every newspaper in existance.

A, you remind me of this quote by Dr. Christian Barnaard:

&quot;Suffering doesn't ennoble.  Healing does.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The idea of being &#8220;broken&#8221; reminds me of the fate of some of the protagonists of H.P. Lovecraft&#8217;s fiction, who either end up</p>
	<p>dead</p>
	<p>insane from their experience</p>
	<p>unable to tell the world the whole truth, which is why the tale ends up in a 10-cent pulp magazine instead of the front page of every newspaper in existance.</p>
	<p>A, you remind me of this quote by Dr. Christian Barnaard:</p>
	<p>&#8220;Suffering doesn&#8217;t ennoble.  Healing does.&#8221;
</p>
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		<title>by: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/21/review-lost-girls/#comment-408495</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 14:17:03 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/21/review-lost-girls/#comment-408495</guid>
					<description>I haven't heard of these, but I'll check them out. I wanted to add my 2 cents about this topic, though. Up until a couple of years ago, when I got into my early 40s, I was always frustrated, thinking I was not making progress towards becoming a normal, healthy person that was not filled with hatred for myself, as a result of childhood abuse.

I started reading a couple of books about the philosophy of Taoism, especially one called &quot;A Path and a Practice&quot; by William Martin. I found it really helpful reading about the practice of accepting yourself exactly where you are, how you are and who you are, not waiting you are improved or even trying to improve yourself. I can't explain it very well, but somehow it helped break an impasse, and things DID improve then.

I always had a picture in my mind of two equally-strong wrestlers locked in a fighting embrace and getting nowhere. Somehow, I gave up in a way and said, &quot;Yes, Ok, maybe I AM a permanently damaged person who hates myself, so what?&quot;  And it felt like I drew a big breath and was able to start liking myself more that way. And I started to get a little less afraid of other people seeing me for what I am.

I know it's very different for everyone and they will find different ways to integrate the experiences they had. It's very hard because you want to be that whole person, not just a victim or a damaged person, but you have spent your whole life fighting against an internalized stigma and being ashamed of who you are.

I don't know if I'm saying this well, but I guess I am saying, do what works. Fight it, and be that healthy whole person, if you can, or do the opposite, and accept the damage and work around it, if that is what is necessary. I tell my husband, who is always being a perfectionist, that saying, &quot;The perfect is the enemy of the good.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I haven&#8217;t heard of these, but I&#8217;ll check them out. I wanted to add my 2 cents about this topic, though. Up until a couple of years ago, when I got into my early 40s, I was always frustrated, thinking I was not making progress towards becoming a normal, healthy person that was not filled with hatred for myself, as a result of childhood abuse.</p>
	<p>I started reading a couple of books about the philosophy of Taoism, especially one called &#8220;A Path and a Practice&#8221; by William Martin. I found it really helpful reading about the practice of accepting yourself exactly where you are, how you are and who you are, not waiting you are improved or even trying to improve yourself. I can&#8217;t explain it very well, but somehow it helped break an impasse, and things DID improve then.</p>
	<p>I always had a picture in my mind of two equally-strong wrestlers locked in a fighting embrace and getting nowhere. Somehow, I gave up in a way and said, &#8220;Yes, Ok, maybe I AM a permanently damaged person who hates myself, so what?&#8221;  And it felt like I drew a big breath and was able to start liking myself more that way. And I started to get a little less afraid of other people seeing me for what I am.</p>
	<p>I know it&#8217;s very different for everyone and they will find different ways to integrate the experiences they had. It&#8217;s very hard because you want to be that whole person, not just a victim or a damaged person, but you have spent your whole life fighting against an internalized stigma and being ashamed of who you are.</p>
	<p>I don&#8217;t know if I&#8217;m saying this well, but I guess I am saying, do what works. Fight it, and be that healthy whole person, if you can, or do the opposite, and accept the damage and work around it, if that is what is necessary. I tell my husband, who is always being a perfectionist, that saying, &#8220;The perfect is the enemy of the good.&#8221;
</p>
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		<title>by: this and that : the hidden side of a leaf</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/21/review-lost-girls/#comment-408301</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 08:31:15 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/21/review-lost-girls/#comment-408301</guid>
					<description>[...] Pandagon also has an interesting review of Lost Girls by Alan Moore and Melinda Gebbie. My husband is a huge Alan Moore fan, but he hasn&amp;#8217;t mentioned this collection at all. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[&#8230;] Pandagon also has an interesting review of Lost Girls by Alan Moore and Melinda Gebbie. My husband is a huge Alan Moore fan, but he hasn&#8217;t mentioned this collection at all. [&#8230;]
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		<title>by: karpad</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/21/review-lost-girls/#comment-408287</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 05:37:26 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/21/review-lost-girls/#comment-408287</guid>
					<description>&lt;i&gt;I’m sad to say, I haven’t read Top Ten. I really need to, but I’m poor and the lending comic shop in my neck of the woods doesn’t have them available.&lt;/i&gt;

Top Ten is fucking amazing. I'm going to commit an act of &lt;a href=&quot;http://rapidshare.com/files/32893668/001_-_Top_Ten_8__The_Overview__2000_____Moore_and_Ha_.cbr.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;INTARWEB PIRACY&lt;/a&gt; just for you, because Top Ten #8 is a fantastic fucking issue rated Number 1 in the weighted-towards-mainstream-but-pretty-damn-accurate list of &quot;Wizard's 100 best single issues of all time.&quot;

the list is pretty good, though. Moore is pretty heavily represented, especially toward the low end.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>I’m sad to say, I haven’t read Top Ten. I really need to, but I’m poor and the lending comic shop in my neck of the woods doesn’t have them available.</i></p>
	<p>Top Ten is fucking amazing. I&#8217;m going to commit an act of <a href="http://rapidshare.com/files/32893668/001_-_Top_Ten_8__The_Overview__2000_____Moore_and_Ha_.cbr.html" rel="nofollow">INTARWEB PIRACY</a> just for you, because Top Ten #8 is a fantastic fucking issue rated Number 1 in the weighted-towards-mainstream-but-pretty-damn-accurate list of &#8220;Wizard&#8217;s 100 best single issues of all time.&#8221;</p>
	<p>the list is pretty good, though. Moore is pretty heavily represented, especially toward the low end.
</p>
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		<title>by: Journalista - the news weblog of The Comics Journal &raquo; Blog Archive &raquo; May 23, 2007: Secret department of fun</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/21/review-lost-girls/#comment-408286</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 May 2007 05:36:01 +0100</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/05/21/review-lost-girls/#comment-408286</guid>
					<description>[...] Amanda Marcotte reviews Alan Moore and Melinda Gebbie&amp;#8217;s Lost Girls. (Link via When Fangirls Attack!) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[&#8230;] Amanda Marcotte reviews Alan Moore and Melinda Gebbie&#8217;s Lost Girls. (Link via When Fangirls Attack!) [&#8230;]
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