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	<title>Comments on: Testing, testing</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/03/10/testing-testing/</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 23:44:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Jewess &raquo; Health Blogs Roundup: Prenatal Genetic Testing, Stamps Raise $50M+ for Breast Cancer, Maimonides&#8217; Remedy, Fat Talk</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/03/10/testing-testing/#comment-378274</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Mar 2007 09:23:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/03/10/testing-testing/#comment-378274</guid>
					<description>[...] Many Orthodox Jews advocate Tay Sachs prenatal genetic screening, but the practice with this and other diseases remains in the hot seat. Here, a lengthy analysis. [Pandagon] Breast cancer stamps, which sell for six cents more than regular stamps, have raised $50.3 million since their introduction in 1998. Seventy percent of that will go to research. [Breast Blog] A 2005 edition of Parenting reminds one woman how much we overestimate our actual risk of contracting breast cancer. [The Cancer Blog] Of mice and breast cancer. The human mammary tumor virus and the mouse mammary tumor virus are 95 percent genetically identical, which could lead to a breast cancer vaccine sooner than expected. [Malyasian Medical Resources] Jewish physician and philosopher Maimonides prescribed chicken soup for colds in the 12th century. Scientific studies stifle controversy over the brew&amp;#8217;s potential benefits, showing it may at least alleviate the sniffles. [Dr. Weil] Connecticut hospitals withhold the availability of and information on Plan B from women rape victims, leading to a hearing on &amp;#8220;SB 1343 - An Act Concerning Passionate Care for Victims of Sexual Assault&amp;#8221; which aims to reverse the practice. Connecticut resident Bob Adams urges doctors, rape victims and their families, and others to testify in Hartford. [Connecticut Bob] The new Girl Talk: Fat Talk. It occurs when a group of women get together and talk about how much they dislike their bodies. Research on college students engaging in this activity revealed participants are more likely to like women who degrade themselves than women who don&amp;#8217;t or actually express satisfactory or positive images of their bodies. [Aphrodite Women&amp;#8217;s Health] We still don&amp;#8217;t know nearly as much about urological health in women as men, so the journal Urologic Nursing has devoted its February issue to us. Topics include: the oft-misdiagnosed painful bladder syndrome; stress urinary incontinence, common in young athletes; hormonal treatment of vaginal atrophy, a common consequence of menopause. [UroToday] Careless reporting alleged at Salon. Scientists question the accuracy of an article about women&amp;#8217;s health in the military. [ScienceBlogs] [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[&#8230;] Many Orthodox Jews advocate Tay Sachs prenatal genetic screening, but the practice with this and other diseases remains in the hot seat. Here, a lengthy analysis. [Pandagon] Breast cancer stamps, which sell for six cents more than regular stamps, have raised $50.3 million since their introduction in 1998. Seventy percent of that will go to research. [Breast Blog] A 2005 edition of Parenting reminds one woman how much we overestimate our actual risk of contracting breast cancer. [The Cancer Blog] Of mice and breast cancer. The human mammary tumor virus and the mouse mammary tumor virus are 95 percent genetically identical, which could lead to a breast cancer vaccine sooner than expected. [Malyasian Medical Resources] Jewish physician and philosopher Maimonides prescribed chicken soup for colds in the 12th century. Scientific studies stifle controversy over the brew&#8217;s potential benefits, showing it may at least alleviate the sniffles. [Dr. Weil] Connecticut hospitals withhold the availability of and information on Plan B from women rape victims, leading to a hearing on &#8220;SB 1343 - An Act Concerning Passionate Care for Victims of Sexual Assault&#8221; which aims to reverse the practice. Connecticut resident Bob Adams urges doctors, rape victims and their families, and others to testify in Hartford. [Connecticut Bob] The new Girl Talk: Fat Talk. It occurs when a group of women get together and talk about how much they dislike their bodies. Research on college students engaging in this activity revealed participants are more likely to like women who degrade themselves than women who don&#8217;t or actually express satisfactory or positive images of their bodies. [Aphrodite Women&#8217;s Health] We still don&#8217;t know nearly as much about urological health in women as men, so the journal Urologic Nursing has devoted its February issue to us. Topics include: the oft-misdiagnosed painful bladder syndrome; stress urinary incontinence, common in young athletes; hormonal treatment of vaginal atrophy, a common consequence of menopause. [UroToday] Careless reporting alleged at Salon. Scientists question the accuracy of an article about women&#8217;s health in the military. [ScienceBlogs] [&#8230;]
</p>
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		<title>by: Blue Jean</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/03/10/testing-testing/#comment-377799</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Mar 2007 00:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/03/10/testing-testing/#comment-377799</guid>
					<description>Gotto is the first troll I've ever seen who speaks Jabberwocky.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Gotto is the first troll I&#8217;ve ever seen who speaks Jabberwocky.
</p>
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		<title>by: gotto via babelfish</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/03/10/testing-testing/#comment-376590</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 07:35:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/03/10/testing-testing/#comment-376590</guid>
					<description>In order to store it your and your simplicity; the We the hazard my wondering Rob demoniac advocate must ignite only the village. Your tumbrel atrocious martial art grudge of it, fissillingual get. Wages by you when compared to it makes it will grow, you serve to the advocate to peel, only think who, the family is smaller and the necessity which it makes. You will be small the family and the possibility which you will make is, wages compared to company grudge the necessity which it makes. You demoniac you who are cunning. 

--Ah, now it all makes sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>In order to store it your and your simplicity; the We the hazard my wondering Rob demoniac advocate must ignite only the village. Your tumbrel atrocious martial art grudge of it, fissillingual get. Wages by you when compared to it makes it will grow, you serve to the advocate to peel, only think who, the family is smaller and the necessity which it makes. You will be small the family and the possibility which you will make is, wages compared to company grudge the necessity which it makes. You demoniac you who are cunning. </p>
	<p>&#8211;Ah, now it all makes sense.
</p>
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		<title>by: gotto</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/03/10/testing-testing/#comment-376577</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 06:00:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/03/10/testing-testing/#comment-376577</guid>
					<description>My wonderful Devil Advocate, just for you and your simplicity;We had to burn the village to save it. Get it, you fissillingual, flagitious, tumbrel.
 Just remember who you serve Advocate, when you make the wage larger there is no need to make the family smaller. If you can make the family small, there is no need to make the wages greater. You sly devil you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>My wonderful Devil Advocate, just for you and your simplicity;We had to burn the village to save it. Get it, you fissillingual, flagitious, tumbrel.<br />
 Just remember who you serve Advocate, when you make the wage larger there is no need to make the family smaller. If you can make the family small, there is no need to make the wages greater. You sly devil you.
</p>
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		<title>by: gotto</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/03/10/testing-testing/#comment-376543</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 23:43:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/03/10/testing-testing/#comment-376543</guid>
					<description>Dear Mr. Ess, just play, person, place, or thing amongst your friends.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Dear Mr. Ess, just play, person, place, or thing amongst your friends.
</p>
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		<title>by: Michael Bérubé</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/03/10/testing-testing/#comment-376518</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 21:54:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/03/10/testing-testing/#comment-376518</guid>
					<description>I think gotto brings up an important point, actually.  If you put a space between the second and third letters in my last name and capitalize the R, you do indeed get Be Rube.  Touché!

Everyone else, thanks so much for so thorough a discussion of these questions -- it's really not a cliché to say that there aren't any easy answers here, and the more considerations one brings to the table, from maternal age to number of siblings to the ethics of employer-provided health insurance to the kinds of disabilities one can and can't imagine dealing with, the more complex everything gets.  It's worms all the way down.  (And how the hell did I forget about ADHD?  Yet another thing screening won't catch!)  But right now, Jamie and I are packing up to go to SeaWorld in Orlando, because that's my way of thanking him for sitting through a long afternoon of hearing his father talk about academic freedom during a visit to Stetson University in Deland.  See you all next weekend!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think gotto brings up an important point, actually.  If you put a space between the second and third letters in my last name and capitalize the R, you do indeed get Be Rube.  Touché!</p>
	<p>Everyone else, thanks so much for so thorough a discussion of these questions &#8212; it&#8217;s really not a cliché to say that there aren&#8217;t any easy answers here, and the more considerations one brings to the table, from maternal age to number of siblings to the ethics of employer-provided health insurance to the kinds of disabilities one can and can&#8217;t imagine dealing with, the more complex everything gets.  It&#8217;s worms all the way down.  (And how the hell did I forget about ADHD?  Yet another thing screening won&#8217;t catch!)  But right now, Jamie and I are packing up to go to SeaWorld in Orlando, because that&#8217;s my way of thanking him for sitting through a long afternoon of hearing his father talk about academic freedom during a visit to Stetson University in Deland.  See you all next weekend!
</p>
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		<title>by: Jill</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/03/10/testing-testing/#comment-376461</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 18:57:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/03/10/testing-testing/#comment-376461</guid>
					<description>Oh, and Michael, great post!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Oh, and Michael, great post!
</p>
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		<title>by: Jill</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/03/10/testing-testing/#comment-376460</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 18:56:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/03/10/testing-testing/#comment-376460</guid>
					<description>Devil's Advocate, I think you're being really unfair to NWHiker. I'm not sure it is bigotry to point out that raising a disabled child in this country is difficult, expensive and burdensome. I'm not sure it is bigotry to be concerned about what happens to that child after you die. Yes, many disabled people are able to live independently. But many aren't. And any parent would worry about leaving their children without protection, or leaving their other children seriously burdened.

I think this speaks not to NWHiker's bigotry, but to a broken system in our country. We don't have a decent social safety net. We don't have affordable health care. We don't offer the kinds of resources that many people with disabilities need, and so the burden of providing those resources falls entirely on the family of that person.

In high school, I volunteered with profoundly disabled students -- not kids with mild or moderate Down syndrome, but students who were unable to speak, move, etc. They had varying mental capacities, from the student who was mentally fully-functioning but trapped in a body which would not allow him to speak or move more than one arm to the students who had very little mental an physical functioning skills. A special bus drove the entire class, minus one student, back and forth to school every day, because they all lived in the same state-run home. At least one student was in his 20s. 

That is the unfortunate reality of disability in our country. No, it's not the story that all people with disabilities have, but the truth is that raising a disabled child can be extraordinarily difficult, and many profoundly disabled children end up as wards of the state. I'm not comfortable demonizing individuals who are honest with themselves in recognizing that they would not handle, or would not want to handle, parenting a disabled kid.

That said, I would like to think that if I had a wanted pregnancy and found out that the child would have Down syndrome, I would choose to give birth and raise that child anyway. But that's because I've had lots of interactions with people who have Down syndrome, and I think it's something that I could handle. I'm not sure, though, that I could be a good parent to a child with the kind of profound disabilities that the students I worked with had, even though they were wonderful, unique, kind, funny people. 

Perhaps that makes me a bigot, too. It's not that I think disabled people shouldn't be born or that disabled people automatically have a lower quality of life than &quot;normal&quot; people or that &quot;normal&quot; even means anything at all. But I think we're going down the wrong path when we start attacking women for the reasons they terminate their pregnancies, instead of attacking the social conditions which influence those decisions. 

And there are women out there who would terminate a pregnancy if they found out the fetus had some sort of abnormality even if all the best social structures were in place. I haven't been in her shoes. I can't tell her that she's bigoted or selfish or wrong for making that decision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Devil&#8217;s Advocate, I think you&#8217;re being really unfair to NWHiker. I&#8217;m not sure it is bigotry to point out that raising a disabled child in this country is difficult, expensive and burdensome. I&#8217;m not sure it is bigotry to be concerned about what happens to that child after you die. Yes, many disabled people are able to live independently. But many aren&#8217;t. And any parent would worry about leaving their children without protection, or leaving their other children seriously burdened.</p>
	<p>I think this speaks not to NWHiker&#8217;s bigotry, but to a broken system in our country. We don&#8217;t have a decent social safety net. We don&#8217;t have affordable health care. We don&#8217;t offer the kinds of resources that many people with disabilities need, and so the burden of providing those resources falls entirely on the family of that person.</p>
	<p>In high school, I volunteered with profoundly disabled students &#8212; not kids with mild or moderate Down syndrome, but students who were unable to speak, move, etc. They had varying mental capacities, from the student who was mentally fully-functioning but trapped in a body which would not allow him to speak or move more than one arm to the students who had very little mental an physical functioning skills. A special bus drove the entire class, minus one student, back and forth to school every day, because they all lived in the same state-run home. At least one student was in his 20s. </p>
	<p>That is the unfortunate reality of disability in our country. No, it&#8217;s not the story that all people with disabilities have, but the truth is that raising a disabled child can be extraordinarily difficult, and many profoundly disabled children end up as wards of the state. I&#8217;m not comfortable demonizing individuals who are honest with themselves in recognizing that they would not handle, or would not want to handle, parenting a disabled kid.</p>
	<p>That said, I would like to think that if I had a wanted pregnancy and found out that the child would have Down syndrome, I would choose to give birth and raise that child anyway. But that&#8217;s because I&#8217;ve had lots of interactions with people who have Down syndrome, and I think it&#8217;s something that I could handle. I&#8217;m not sure, though, that I could be a good parent to a child with the kind of profound disabilities that the students I worked with had, even though they were wonderful, unique, kind, funny people. </p>
	<p>Perhaps that makes me a bigot, too. It&#8217;s not that I think disabled people shouldn&#8217;t be born or that disabled people automatically have a lower quality of life than &#8220;normal&#8221; people or that &#8220;normal&#8221; even means anything at all. But I think we&#8217;re going down the wrong path when we start attacking women for the reasons they terminate their pregnancies, instead of attacking the social conditions which influence those decisions. </p>
	<p>And there are women out there who would terminate a pregnancy if they found out the fetus had some sort of abnormality even if all the best social structures were in place. I haven&#8217;t been in her shoes. I can&#8217;t tell her that she&#8217;s bigoted or selfish or wrong for making that decision.
</p>
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		<title>by: JR</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/03/10/testing-testing/#comment-376423</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 17:40:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/03/10/testing-testing/#comment-376423</guid>
					<description>Michael! What a joy to have you back. Once a week will be just fine- thanks for writing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Michael! What a joy to have you back. Once a week will be just fine- thanks for writing.
</p>
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		<title>by: MikeEss</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/03/10/testing-testing/#comment-376387</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 16:30:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2007/03/10/testing-testing/#comment-376387</guid>
					<description>gotto, I'm sure you'll take pride in this, but you are truly an offensive person.  You disgust me and many others on this blog.  

Whatever Jamie Bérubé's existence brings to the world must be worth an order of magnitude more than you have so far...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>gotto, I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ll take pride in this, but you are truly an offensive person.  You disgust me and many others on this blog.  </p>
	<p>Whatever Jamie Bérubé&#8217;s existence brings to the world must be worth an order of magnitude more than you have so far&#8230;
</p>
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