I’ve been blogging about the whole “acting white” phenomenon for some time now. It’s been coming up regularly now that Barack Obama is on the campaign trail.
It can be tiring hearing that underachievement in the black community is solely about institutionalized racism. There are social pathologies that have taken hold, perhaps brought about by the institutionalized racism, but there’s nothing stopping anyone from countering the culture of underachievement that exists in some quarters. It’s very real, and sad.
Oliver Willis has a couple of great videos up of Barack Obama directly addressing the “acting white” problem. One is below. OW:
I believe Barack Obama will bring to the black vote in 2008 should he be the Democratic candidate. It’s an authenticity that black conservatives simply cannot achieve, and why when they come knocking on the door to sell, black voters - and voters at large, do not buy.
More after the flip.
As I mentioned in my first post on the topic, I was slammed by kids for “talking white” and “acting white” because I was doing well in junior high school. It was made worse by the fact that I didn’t have a southern accent even though I’m a native Southerner.
As I said then, the sad truth is that, in a public school that was at least 75% black, I was pulled over by one of the elderly black teachers one day and she told me that she was so proud of me — I was the first black student to make the honor roll in that school.
That was in the 70s; I cannot imagine what it is like now growing up, with the saturation of anti-intellectualism and materialism foisted upon and soaked up as “culture” by some in the black community.Whenever I write about this topic, I receive emails that can be divided into two types (most people, I suppose, are afraid to comment publicly): 1) the white liberals and some blacks who think I’m taking socioeconomic conditions and institutionalized racism too lightly as a factor; 2) blacks who have experienced the same kind of blowback from their peers for doing well in school, saying they were glad I said something about the topic.
I usually also receive a smattering of mail from people who argue that white kids have to deal with the same kind of underachievement “slacker” pressures; but they aren’t the same. White kids don’t have their peers telling them that they are acting like another race, one that has historically been charged with laziness or intellectual inferiority.
The truth is that black kids in middle class homes fall prey to this underachiever peer pressure at school, and there are plenty of kids in crap public schools (and from broken homes) that still manage to achieve. There is no one cause, no one answer.
This isn’t a liberal or conservative issue in many respects; it’s another one of those topics that neither side knows how to fix, and talking head ends up arguing on the fringes of the problem, pointing fingers about what’s to blame instead of acknowledging it’s too complex an issue for “black/white” thinking. It’s all tied up in the myriad problems Americans have when the topic of race comes up — people end up talking past one another, inflamed, emotional and defensive.
Look at this article from a couple of years ago, Triangle educators debate racial issues at conference. What these students feel is real:
Tenth grader Anais Guzman is on the honor roll. She says some of her peers see the achievement as acting too “white”.Instead of minimizing the “acting white” theory, researchers need to talk to students, and ask the right questions. Let there be a discussion and an outlet to talk about it, no matter the cause — the black students that achieve in spite of the odds and pressure obviously need the validation.“They can get high grades but they don’t want to because they’ll be considered as acting white, so they put white people down,” Guzman said.
…”Some people might say some people are acting white, or acting black or different things like that so I see it often,” said tenth garder Vance Cherebin.
College freshman Erin Burns added, “Black students that are doing well in the classroom or hang out with white friends or have good grammar, talk properly or don’t use slang, they get accused of being white a lot.”
Related:
* Obama and race: our country is so confused
46 Responses to “Obama and “acting white””
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Well, he’s got lots of melanin and if he’s “acting white” then he’s just uppity, that’s all.
Way to undermine a person from the top and the bottom.
great post.
This stuff just drives me crazy. It blows my mind that we could have such destructive social norms. And I have no idea how to address it.
Learning about the discrimination my black peers faced for “acting white” was a huge awakening for me in college - that was the moment I learned what it meant to be a non-target (I’m white). Great post, Pam, and thanks for taking on a complicated, loaded issue.
I wish I could remember the guy’s name, but there was a white teacher here in Los Angeles who got in all kinds of trouble for pushing his mostly-black high school students to do better in class by saying things like, “Being black isn’t an excuse for doing poorly in this class.” A lot of parents were outraged and demanded that he be fired. By all accounts, the guy wasn’t a racist or said racist things, but he wasn’t accepting the excuses the kids were giving him and he got targeted.
Have I mentioned lately that we’re pretty fucked up here in Los Angeles?
(Interestingly, a black reporter was sent from the now-defunct New Times Los Angeles to interview him about the controversy. They ended up falling in love and getting married, so at least someone had a happy ending.)
Mostly what I love is here: “Instead of minimizing the “acting whiteâ€? theory, researchers need to talk to students, and ask the right questions.” I mean, honestly, I personally have no idea what to say on the ruling that “there’s nothing stopping anyone from countering the culture of underachievement that exists in some quarters.” That’s one I have to stop and think about and when I’m done, I realize I need to read more to understand what that means to you. “The culture of underachievement.” But I agree that there should be more talk with the children, less theorizing. There’s so many answers in listening to children. The hard part comes in how we filter what we hear, I guess.
Aside: There’s a great video i’ve seen called “girl like me” which talks about the pressure there is on The Brownâ„¢ to be All that is White®. The ways in which that can affect and manifest in a human being (in this particular video, girls and their self image and physical appearance, if I remember correctly).
I like the thoughts too, about how some of this stuff is so complex what with all the perceptions and notions of history and personal feelings at variances. People bring so much, as well as a great deal of emotion, to these discussions. For me, it is a painstaking process, feeling out my own awareness and thoughts on so much of this.
I write a series in my own blog called “The White Lens” which deals with the “eye” that I, and so many others (to be so presumptuous), have inherited by growing up (brown) in a white culture. These posts are about using the eye of the dominant culture, the tug to see and be Like Them, to unconsciously adopt the elite and default standard of reference. Of course, I include mastery of the English language in that often-studied (metaphorical) primer, and I have done well with this part of it. For this, I have achieved, and been recognized, and yet, have also felt shame in situations with Chicano or black friends. I relate to what you talk about (as I see it, of course). Pressure. But that’s just a few thoughts on an initial reaction. I don’t know exactly how it all intersects with your thinking on these things (I did read your other post as well as this one). I feel it is related.
While I think the acting white phenomenon is real, I also think it is way overblown by the mainstream media.
The assumption is that Black kids want to do poorly in school, which is nonsense. Many of those kids throwing around “acting white” are doing so out of jealousy for those who are achieving. If you are jealous then this means that you also want to achieve.
However, I think it is also fair to say that accusation of acting white is not always leveled at people based on academic achievement. People can be told they are acting white for a whole host of reasons, such as who their peers are, what kind of music/popular they consume, nerdiness, in the case of one guys I know having a speech impediment and not being able to dance.
It is so much bigger than educational achievement.
A coupla black guy students at MIT felt the need to wear, on the campus, pretend glasses (eyesight was perfect) in order to look ‘the part’ at nerd university so that they would not get hassled by campus police. That was in the early 1990’s. I am not sure if things are much better here (MIT). I never heard them talk about not fitting in with their black peers, but then again, I was not aware of this phenom until reading about it from Pam.
Herm. You know, there’s this thing that occurs to me. Black American English (which I’ve been told is the proper name for what some folks call “ebonics”) is a dialect that has evolved over the years. It’s the way some kids will hear people talk. It can be viewed as a language in itself, and thus, can be a child’s native tongue.
The kindest thing said (by folks in the mainstream, at least) about talking “that way” is that it’s wrong. It’s incorrect, and uneducated.
So we take folks who grew up speaking a certain way, and the way that will probably be the most natural for them for a long, long time, and we say that they’re speaking wrong, as if they were too stupid to speak correctly.
If I were to go looking for a root to “acting white”, I’d bet that it would come down to something like “so now you’re going to start treating me differently, right? You’re going start acting like everything I do, down to the way I learned to talk, is wrong.”
Note that I’m saying that I think this might be the root, or one of them. I’m not suggesting it’s the way things are today. But I can’t see talk about “acting white” taking hold unless “acting white” is seen as a personal affront.
(Keep in mind that I’m not a sociologist, historian, or really generally worth listening to. But this idea jumped out at me, so I figured I’d share it.)
Interesting. Although I think this country “is ready” for a black President, this country is not ready for a black President that doesn’t “act white.”
If Barack resembled Wesley Snipes and spoke more like Spike Lee, he wouldn’t be running for President.
Although this sports analogy may not fit perfectly, I think it helps make my point. It wasn’t that long ago that black athletes were steered away from being a quarterback, especially in the NFL. We are just about done with that stereotype.
But a majority of white America would need a Michael Jordan/Tiger Woods/Barack Obama “non-threatening” type at this stage, IMHO.
That was in the early 1990’s. I am not sure if things are much better here (MIT).
I remember the BU Police frequently harassed black male guests arriving at my Bay State Road independent living group. My male african-american housemates seemed to live in a pretty much permanent state of suspicion. Very sad.
And in contrast to the topic, my white female Democratic co-worker just ripped on Obama for picking up the ’southern black speech’ when he was campaigning down there this weekend.
Hell, I start speaking British English when around my Brit friends. It’s unconscious, I know it’s annoying and pretentious, but my mouth wants to ape the accent I’m hearing.
I don’t have too much sympathy for people getting miffed about their use of language cutting them off from possibilities. It used to be that if you wanted to get ahead in Europe, you would have to know Latin. Don’t know Latin? Tough, not hired. There are tons of cultures all over the world where there will be a “proper” language for business and a dialect/different language for use at home or informally. E.g., Switzerland, Japan, China, etc. No one thinks twice about it, and nobody makes a fuss about not being able to do official work in dialect.
I also point out a “trailer trash” white person who uses double-negatives and incorrect grammer would find it just as hard to get hired in anything but a “blue-collar” position.
If Barack resembled Wesley Snipes and spoke more like Spike Lee, he wouldn’t be running for President.
Spike Lee is not only a college graduate, he has a master’s degree from NYU. Both of his parents were also college-educated, and I believe at least one of his grandfathers was as well. So he’s not exactly an example of an uneducated person pulling himself up by his bootstraps. (I’m speaking strictly of the education/economic lower classes — the racism that Lee has faced throughout his career is a different issue than what I’m pointing out.)
Though I agree that a politician who spoke as confrontationally as Lee often does wouldn’t have a long career. But that’s because Lee is speaking as an artist and doing what he feels is his job as an artist: confronting the unspoken ideas of the bourgeoisie. Annoying the bourgeoisie has a long and honorable history in art, and Lee is very good at it, but it’s not a skill that will get you elected to public office.
Obama seems quite happy to hide behind the fabric of Khristian piety, selling out gay and lesbian Democrats at the drop of a hat (unless they are anti-humanity billionaires who want to drop a load of homo f*cko buckos in his campaign bank account).
Sounds like he’s acting mighty white to me!
Interesting post, Pam. At my college, I always noticed that the black theatre students acted very differently in class verses hanging out with white theatre kids verses hanging out with black theatre kids. I always wondered, but felt uncomfortable to ask, is which way was how they actually are inside? I mean, I realize we all have different aspects of our personality, but it was such a pronounced difference, but I always wondered if these kids felt pressure from their similiarly hued friends to act more stereotypical.
In one of my Race and Ethnicity classes a couple years ago, we were talking about the selling of hip hop to white America. We got into Kanye West. This was about the time that his first album was near the top. I mentioned that I really disliked the the little interludes that mock getting an education. One of black students then said, “Why’d he have to title the thing ‘College Dropout?’” It was a fascinating conversation about some of the cultural things Pam’s writing about. (I’ve had others one-on-one, but this was the first time it really came into the classroom that way).
That same semester one of my students talked to me about a completely different pressure. Whenever he’d head home to Atlanta, people from his church would talk about how much they were depending on him to do well. Some of them would give a few bucks to him to help out with living in Boston. He was basically going to college for his entire community.
Such contradictory pressures.
Jennifer,
Yes we do.
I don’t have anything to add. I wish I did. But thanks for this, Pam, it’s given me a lot to think about viz. standard vs. correct, and the priviliging of “prestige” registers in language, as well as community and cultural identification.
“It can be tiring hearing that underachievement in the black community is solely about institutionalized racism. There are social pathologies that have taken hold, perhaps brought about by the institutionalized racism, but there’s nothing stopping anyone from countering the culture of underachievement that exists in some quarters. It’s very real, and sad.”
I think the impacts of institutionalized racism are deep and visible and invisible — which is why I think it is problematic to seek an explanation for supposed underachievement that is focused on individual responsibility and temerity (or lack thereof) at the very same time that institutionalized racism, in your post, is acknowledged as a real, ongoing problem. Simply, institutionalized racism (and everything it intersects with, like poverty, sexism, psychological subjugation, etc.) are massive problems, and every nonwhite person in this country is going to be negatively impacted by it, in some way, whether they recognize it or not. Institutionalized racism even impacts how we see and define ‘underachievement’ among black people, as well as offering a reason for why ‘underachievement’ among white people is usually not interrogated (or, when it is, pinned on class location). Pam, I love your posts, but, here, I think this post shows a buying into white standards and shaming.
What do you think of Donna Dickerson’s consistent attacks on Obama for not really being “black”? I’m white, but I find her to be absolutely infuriating. The worst I’ve seen from her was when she made an appearance on Real Time with Bill Maher a few weeks ago (I searched and searched, but no YouTube available). I can’t recall her exact words and points, but I think that’s because it all sounded like over-intellectualized culture-parsing horseshit entirely aimed at carving out a nice little punditry niche for herself as the black woman who doesn’t think Obama’s “black” enough.
If anyone here is familiar with her and can defend her position or support my theory, I’d love to hear from ya.
White kids don’t have their peers telling them that they are acting like another race
These days, at least, they do: they’re “acting Asian”. I get the impression that over-intense intellectualism used to be (at least by Ivy League admissions officers) called “acting Jewish”.
IMHO the pressures on black kids (especially boys) not to “act white” are an amplified or purified form of pressures that are common to American culture: it’s not that black kids have a different culture, it’s that they’re taking American culture straight and unbuffered.
Ms Kate- did you live in the all girl co-op on Bay State? I’ve considered it before, but I was too intimidated to just show up one day to look around.
I disagree that white kids’ peers don’t say they are acting like another race. In my high school, a common insult was that someone was acting like a wigger (a fusion on white + nigger).
/delurk
Thank you for writing this post. I usually don’t comment, since someone else always winds up saying what I wanted to first.
I taught elementary school art for a couple of years in a public school that was low income (80% free or reduced lunch). It was, I think, a good mix of white, African-American, and Mexican-American. I saw a lot of what you are talking about and it was heart breaking. I specifically remember a couple of boys who were really bright, but didn’t want to seem “school-smart.” It seemed that some of the Mexican-American kids had a similar problem, probably for similar reasons. Fortunately for me, doing well in art class didn’t seem to have the stigma of doing well in homeroom.
the whole debate around Obama’s ‘blackness’ or ‘whiteness’ is really really silly. america is such a weird place when it comes to race. some ridiculous people try to argue that Obama isn’t black. i bet that’s news to him. as if bullies and racists stopped to ask him where exactly his parents were from before simply assuming his black skin meant he was descended from slaves. or store owners, banks, etc, what have you. there is serious, gut-level social pressure not to act interested or compliant (white) in school, it does apply to any and all races, and it is one of the most crushing forces in school, directly related to your social status, popularity, and treatment on the whole. there is certainly an added degree for blacks, asians, latino/as as any of them can be ridiculed in this manner. not that its really that great for white kids either when someone else acting “like them” is this huge insult.
i just wish people everywhere would be more responsible. but these things take a long time. everyone wants status, money, a means to earn a living and improve ones self. most people anyways. we’ve got to move forward as a nation though, beyond the dialogue about race which has predominated since the 80s. societal conditions have improved some, but not nearly enough. school systems are increasingly unable to attend to students emotional and psychological needs and this really prevents progress in the classroom itself, as too many people see it being in their best interests to do poorly, or at least appear to, for the sake of ‘coolness’. if there is going to be social pressue to stop the association of success or interest in education with ‘whiteness’, it probably has to be initiated and led by someone who is in or highly respected by the communities which are affected. i’ve got to say though, i have yet to see anyone in the media claim that Obama was “acting white”, so i’m not entirely sure why the topic needs addressing. is the contention that black leaders are saying this? who is even saying it? i know there are people out there claiming he isn’t black, i’ve seen that. but other than that, is there some worry that blacks won’t support him because he’s too “white”? i think that black voters deserve more credit than for people to assume they will fall for some BS like that. how kids act in school is one thing. how people vote is quite another.
Pam, I love your posts, but, here, I think this post shows a buying into white standards and shaming.
Nope. Note that I said underachievement is not solely about institutionalized racism, and that there is no one cause, no one answer.
To raise the discussion usually results in comments like yours, which is “don’t discuss any other possibilities lest it raise hackles.” No one said to not question “white standards.” There is no shame in discussion and debate. That’s been the whole problem, with this topic and race generally. Conversations shut down before they even begin as the defenses go up.
This is a complex issue, and for those students who are trying to achieve in the system we have now, not the utopia everyone desires, young people shouldn’t be misled into thinking that they are going to succeed without staying in school, or that their social acceptance in their peer group must trump education — particularly when minorities still have an uphill battle in society because of that institutionalized racism.
White kids get pounded upon for studying hard as well, y’know. It’s just that they’re the ones that are called the nerds. Or gay. Or “acting as if they think they’re better than the rest of us.”
The US is a dreadfully anti-intellectual country to grow up in unless you live in certain select environments: Asian, Jewish, European intelligensia. For some of us, it’s our class that we claim as being not supportive of our efforts. For others, it’s the color of our skin that makes the distinction. Or our background. Or our poverty….
Some groups value education more than others–groups on top don’t value education that much (except as a graceful decoration on their little darlin’s brow) because due to innate built-in privileges (white, upper-class, rich) they don’t need it as a way up the economic ladder.
IMHO the pressures on black kids (especially boys) not to “act white� are an amplified or purified form of pressures that are common to American culture: it’s not that black kids have a different culture, it’s that they’re taking American culture straight and unbuffered.
After going away and brooding for a bit, I’m starting to think the Doctor is on to something here. This is my totally inarticulate version of it:
Let’s say that the white, straight male is the pattern card for our culture. Everyone else is supposed to strive to be like the mythical unintellectual blue-collar cowboy.
The catch is, the people who are actually allowed to stray from the stereotype are … straight white males. Because they’re already “in.” They have their markers as being the right people, so they can break free and become feminists, or intellectuals, or what-have-you.
But no one else is allowed to break that paradigm. In fact, they have to stick to it even harder to try and prove themselves worthy of respect/attention from the wider society, which is, let’s face it, very anti-intellectual.
I dunno. I’m still working on it. But I think there may be something there.
Doctor Science says, in response to “White kids don’t have their peers telling them that they are acting like another race”:
“These days, at least, they do: they’re “acting Asianâ€?. I get the impression that over-intense intellectualism used to be (at least by Ivy League admissions officers) called “acting Jewishâ€?.”
Maybe, but I don’t think anyone thought those people were going to start having Bar Mitzvahs for their kids or, uh, I don’t know … what would you have to do to show you were actually confused or in denial about your race and thought you were Asian?
Are these kids accused of acting Jewish or Asian also accused of embracing Jewish and Asian culture, and abandoning White culture? I think it’s more of a “they study a lot, you study a lot, you’re acting Jewish/Asian” thing.
In contrast, I think the “acting White” thing actually implies that the person thinks he can leave being Black behind, that he’s pretending that his race can be erased, that he can pass into the White world through his intellect or achievements. There’s a “you think you can do it but you’ll learn you’re no better than we are when you hit the glass ceiling” flavor to it.
I think there’s a greater perceived gap between Black culture and White culture than there is between Asian or Jewish culture and White culture. At least economically and intellectually, there’s more discourse among White, Jewish and Asian than between White and Black. So someone who is close to White culture is perceived as being far from Black culture, farther than a similarly “White” Asian or Jewish person is perceived as far from Asian or Jewish culture.
When I was a girl I was often told off for acting like a boy, for example by challenging authority or being competitive with boys. I’m sure that attitude has not disappeared. I think some of it was based on a fear that I was going to become a lesbian, because we all know that lesbians are “men trapped in women’s bodies”. When I got old enough to show an interest in romantic or sexual things, and it became clear I liked boys, I think some of the pressure was off. I was weird, maybe offensive, but I wasn’t trying to “be a man.”
i think obama transends racial labeling. i recall a term from psychology, “self actualization.” i think the term means something like being all one can be… a person who lives up to his full potential as a human being he is who he is.an individual who, i think, knows himself and is comfortable with himself. as i watch and listen to this man i am struck with his genuineness (don’t know if that is a word, but y’all know what i mean.) and his passion. i think he is a person who has somehow refused to let anyone else label or define him so that he is a fully actualized human being. labels, whether other imposed or self imposed, imprison a human from becoming all he can be. i hope this guy makes it through the political process untarnished. it is such a pleasure to watch this man speaking of what he believes so fearlessly and so passionately. too cool. . haven’t black folks noticed how th white culture gobbles up anything it can from the black culture. what do you think that is about??? (rhetorical question) i know this is trite, but wouldn’t it just be wonderful if we all enjoyed the richness our diverse world shows us?
I think there’s a greater perceived gap between Black culture and White culture than there is between Asian or Jewish culture and White culture.
I think the gap is perceived as being more important, but in my observation it’s actually *less* of a cultural gap in real terms.
It’s very odd, because the Jewish/Asian/nerd kids (like my teenager) may be perceived by adults as more “mainstream” or conventional than the Black/pseudo-Black (what else do you call a white suburban teenager who tries to dress & talk like a black inner-city kid?) teens. But the former group are not as American — not in their clothes, in the entertainment they prefer, in their birthplaces, in their aspirations, nor in their identification.
The latter group, though, are incredibly American, American-concentrate. It’s most obvious in the love of team sports and clothing associated with sports, but also in music, TV, anti-intellectualism, and appreciation for money.
I admit, one of my formative experiences was watching “Roots” when it was first on, and realizing that the Alex Haley’s family has much deeper roots in North America than my own, lily-white though I am. IMHO Black culture *is* the mainsteam of American non-elite culture.
My view may be a side-effect of living for most of my life in the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic states, where most whites are not of English descent.
When I was a grad school, a guy in a cohort a year below mine used to talk about “code-switching.” He was black and grew up in a project in Chicago. What he meant by “code-switching” was that there was an appropriate way to act around his friends and another way to act around academics. Except he refused to do it, much to the consternation of his friends and of our profs. He used to say that he loved to mess with people by “acting white” around his friends and “acting black” in classes. I wish I knew more about the theory that gave rise to the concept of “code-switching,” but the general idea, as I remember it, is that all social interactions are coded and participants must act in ways prescribed by these codes. But people of color, particularly young black people, experience a more intense pressure to either conform to codes or to code-switch, and have a more acute awareness of various social expectations.
Pam, this was the point I brought up in the “political corectness” thread. There seem to be some things that we are just not able to talk about, lest we be labeled as “racists” or whatever.
As much as the whole community has to pull together regarding this issue, the lion’s share has to come from the leadership in the black community.
I guess I just can’t understand it, but there seems to be so many examples of successful black people. Black CEOs, black generals in the army, black secretaries of state (two of them), etc. What would probmp black children to not want to emulate them?
Great post.
Pam “I said underachievement is not solely about institutionalized racism, and that there is no one cause, no one answer.”
I agree. There is a part of the left side of the political spectrum that wants to fit the source of every negative behavior/problem into the nice and neat ideological box of white supremacy. I would call this race reductionism, not unlike vulgar marxism (or class reductionism), which tries to reduce every aspect of culture to something created by the upper class to keep the working class down. Life is indeed more complex.
Pam “What these students feel is real.”
Yeah it is. Unfortunately parts of the left pooh-pooh, which might be called a form of ideological denial. It is not “overblown” nor is it an either/or formulation in the solutions.
This is a complex issue, and for those students who are trying to achieve in the system we have now, not the utopia everyone desires, young people shouldn’t be misled into thinking that they are going to succeed without staying in school, or that their social acceptance in their peer group must trump education — particularly when minorities still have an uphill battle in society because of that institutionalized racism.
I agree with all this… and what’s said in the post.
My question is, why isn’t a culture of underacheivement *part* of the systemic racism in this country? Is it because it isn’t directly imposed by an institution?
As a college English prof, I can assure you that it’s not just the black kids who disdain “reading and writing and conjugating verbs.”
BUT
The problem, at least for this (almost) middle-aged white woman, is that I know the white kids have access to privilege and power that will help compensate for that lack of intellectual drive, whereas my black students don’t have the benefit of white privilege to fall back upon. (And what chance do I have to get the necessity of learning language, through which they can then speak the truth to power, through to them?)
That’s exactly why I *do see it as systematic racism in this country.
Tony wrote:
I guess I just can’t understand it, but there seems to be so many examples of successful black people. Black CEOs, black generals in the army, black secretaries of state (two of them), etc. What would probmp black children to not want to emulate them?
I wonder if this is partly generational? I mean, probably the single most visible, successful black person in this country is Oprah, right? You don’t even have to use her last name anymore; everyone knows who you mean. And from the viewpoint of your average high schooler, she’s old. In my experience, very few high schoolers, whatever their race, accept “old people” as their role models. Or at least they don’t admit it.
Also, the fact that there are black CEOs “somewhere out there,” probably doesn’t mean much to the average black high schooler, let alone the ones at risk. For someone to be a role model, you have to have the sense that you could be like them. If, for whatever reason, you’re convinced that you could never grow up to be a CEO, it doesn’t particularly help that there are some out there who look like you.
Irene
This was something I ran into a bit in the Hispanic community. Probably not as much and this was 13+ years ago so it may be different now…
I was lucky and managed to go to a magnet school that had a good college track. But I heard some horror stories about the HS I would have had to go to.
Re: White “trailer trash”:
While I won’t argue that there aren’t poor or “blue collar” whites who have culturally rejected the academic and social norms of the dominant achievement culture–or that these groups are playing a very different game than middle class white “slackers” or “jocks vs. nerds” when they accuse the successful among them of “acting smart” or “being uppity” or whatever–it’s still not the same thing.
The social/cultural rejection experienced by poor whites for essentially acting outside of the norms of their class does have something in common with the “acting white” phenonemon in that both seem to involve getting called out by your peer group for the same kinds of behaviors. But the fact remains that the white kids are unlikely to ever have their racial identity called into question, and the same historical assumptions and prejudice just aren’t there.
The fact is also that when interacting with the dominant culture, even poor whites are gonna have white privilege to draw from. (It can even be to your advantage in adult white achievement society to be able to claim a lower-class background and be comfortable with the language of “double-negatives and incorrect gramm[a]r”, as long you know when and how to use it.)
As far as “acting black”, yeah, it happens. But it’s not a charge any white kid is likely to hear for making the honor roll, being in the gifted program, or successful use of the language and vocabulary of the dominant culture. And that’s a major difference.
You’ve got a great chance, if you take it.
I’ve always made it clear to my students — multiracial, but overwhelmingly working class — that Standard English is just one dialect out of many, but that it happens to be the dialect that’s used by the intellectual and economic elite. If they want to gain entry into that elite, they have to have the ability to use that dialect.
A fellow teacher once told me about an exercise he did with his students. He said that when you write out a job application, or show a prospective employer some of your written work, the first thing that’ll jump out is whether the grammar and syntax follow Standard English rules. If they do, your application goes into the “maybe” pile. If they don’t, it goes in the trash. He’d mime picking up papers from a stack, glancing at each one, and pronouncing a verdict: “maybe” or “suckerfool.”
I give my students a version of that speech every semester when I hand out their first written assignment. I tell them that when I’m covering their papers in ink corrections and marking them down for their/there errors and making them rewrite, I’m trying to get them into the “maybe” pile.
i think what doesn’t come up often enough in these debates is that the “acting white” myth (and i agree with Pam, it’s an endemic problem that both Black and white youth buy into, but not an entirely separate issue from structural racism) is related to gender. as far as it’s an anti-achievement myth, it’s associated with the misconception that it’s white to get good grades. but as far as the way people speak, or walk, or shake hands, it’s also a way to put down someone’s masculinity, or their femininity, by saying it’s not the way they’re expected to act based on their race and gender. so a young Black woman who does well in math might be acting like a boy, in the same way that young white women find themselves pressed against that bias, but if she also speaks with the wrong accent (everybody has an accent) or in standard english, then she’s somehow playing into a racial stereotype. what’s a girl to do?
i think that the way people perceive Obama, a biracial son of a recent immigrant, is more of an example of how narrow-minded racism has made so many people. there’s such a diversity of backgrounds and cultural ways in the Black community in the US that someone like Obama should be seen as typical, but he’s treated as an exception.
“Conversations shut down before they even begin as the defenses go up.”
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It’s not defensiveness on my part. It’s an effort to challenge the strategy of assimilation (from the “racial uplift” rhetoric of the 19th century to Bill Cosby’s admonition of black youth) that can and has been critiqued for being white-identified. Assimilationist strategies have been critiqued for being ultimately ineffective (at fostering social transformation) — they give some people access to middle-class white virtue, but leave most out (and that access is very, very contingent — think O.J.). These strategies have also been critiqued for contributing to continued marginalization (the problem that advocates actually want to diminish). Sure, we can and should complexify our understandings of racism, including institutionalized racism; that is always necessary. But, going in the opposite direction –discounting racism almost entirely, if not entirely — is far too simplistic. It’s palatable, for sure. I think that’s what ends the conversation.
I haven’t got the time to read every post here and feel that is rude to not do so before I add something but I simply haven’t got the time today and this post is fascinating !
I wonder if and why the reverse is not studied … that is — the phenomenom of white acting black. —
I don’t get the whole ‘acting white’ thing when a person is just trying to improve themselves, in some locales improving yourself would be ingratiating yourself to blacks (don’t forget i’m in a hurry so please read kindly) … I think that’s bullshit or as the first poster said: way to undercut from top AND bottom.
It’s different to be born into a region and grow up speaking one way (not acting white but speaking like those you hear around you) similarly to myself — I was the first one in my family to grow up in the south and my accent is just pure ‘floriduh-ean’ hehe. While many of my relatives have Northern accents. (still!!) Others in my family moved to still other states and are hard for ME to understand now. I guess that’s acting North Carolina??
BUT, if you are a white person and you start hanging around blacks as a teen or what-have-you (bussing to different schools changing your demographic or whatever causes the change) … then you start talking like a black teenager — that is, striving to fit in in such a way that everything about you gets adjusted … (like moving to another state only in this case you go home to your family every day and still talk like someone else)
I think the reason I am a bit bothered is because this is a sign that the kid is not accepted as he is and felt he/she had to change EVERYTHING to fit in.
What’s wrong with that picture?
I had a pretty wide mix of friends all of my life and we all looked and sounded different. The cooler ones were somewhat imitated but everyone was generally themselves.
I’ve seen immigrants do the same thing to each other. When one is making it they trash the more recent immigrants. The more recent immigrants trash those who are making it ….
Why can’t each just learn to stand on their own and be counted without ripping another to climb higher on their imaginary ladder of esteem?
Anyway .. great post !
I don’t have any feeling about Obama except he has no track record. I don’t care if he’s green. Yknow I know TOO much about kerry and not enough about obama. Let him cure that with time …. so we can get to know him.
As a person-of-color who was and is still a nerd, I got this kind of bullsh*t all the time. But the fact of the matter is that white people enjoy ignorance and prefer being stupid, too. Just look at the religious right and their outright rejection of science, or the way that most Republican and conservative pundits dismiss intellectuals as being too “ivory tower.” Hell, I can rant about all the stereotypes of white people as dumbass yokels who live in trailer parks, rednecks who screw their sisters, NASCAR-watching folks, the morons on Cops with Southern accents, or, on a different token, the surfer dudes and the pot heads, yadda yadda—these are the stereotypes of the “true” American and some people even bear these stereotypes proudly. If white people didn’t prefer idiocy, we probably wouldn’t have our current president. This is clearly more than a strange phenomenon plaguing only people-of-color. The problem lies deep in American culture itself.
What does Obama stand for?
He’s an attorney who became a politician, which means he is…exactly like almost all other politicians.
He has such a slight voting record, that he has almost no history on issues at all.
Sure, he’s affable, looks good on camera, knows how to interview with Tim Russert, but what is he about?
There is no there, there. He needs more time to be a credible national political figure.