And that’s passing yourself off as a feminist when you’re anything but.
It’s a legitimate question after going through their entire series of supposedly “Pro-Woman Answers for Pro-Choice Questions”. The last email has been sent off, and Foster is hoping we’ve learned something, preferably how to shut off your brain and turn into a right wing automan.
I hope that reading my “Pro-Woman Answers to Pro-Choice QuestionsTMâ€? has given you fresh perspectives on a contentious debate.
My thanks to all who took the time to respond. We are grateful for the many thoughtful and heartfelt comments and suggestions we received.
Were you able to internalize the answers?
Love the choice of the word “internalize”. Not think about, not understand, but internalize. Serrin Foster is noteworthy for how she does such a half-assed job at pretending to be a feminist. If she knew the first thing about feminism, she’d know that feminists use the word “interalize” a lot, and it’s pretty much always a bad thing—you’ve internalized misogyny or internalized the patriarchy, but you don’t internalize like love of puppies or something like that. She’s tipped her hand with this one, inadvertently indicated that the best she can hope for is not that one really thinks about being anti-choice and concludes that it’s the right position through thinking about it. Mostly because you can’t. At best, being anti-choice is bound up in irrationality and misdirection with a thick layer of sentimentality over it to keep you from really thinking about the issues.
Foster just lines up the previous Feminists for Life questions. If you’ll recall, I began covering the Feminists for Life questions in hopes that they would address preventing abortion by preventing unwanted pregnancy, but as we’ve learned, Feminists for Life is no different from any other anti-abortion organization and they oppose or ignore contraception use altogether. We’ve learned a lot, mostly that Feminists for Life is not a feminist organization, because any true feminist organization would, bare minimum, understand that not all women are identical and have the identical goal of having a megaton of babies, as Feminists for Life assumes they must.
Just remember that the basis for any answer should be: Remember the woman as well as the child.
How does Feminists for Life remember women? Do they remember disabled women who they would ban from getting abortions when not doing so could kill them? No. Do they remember rape victims who will be traumatized twice if forced to bear their rapist’s baby? No. Do they remember women who don’t want to bear a child just to relinquish it? No. Do they remember women who find out that their fetuses have died in utero and now they have to walk around with a corpse rattling around inside them because it’s illegal to remove it under an abortion ban? No. Do they remember women who simply don’t want to have children? No. Do they remember women who’ve had children and don’t want more? No. Do they remember women who want children in the future, but just not right now? No.
Once you’ve eliminated all the women that Feminists For Life don’t remember, there aren’t many left. There are indeed a handful of women out there who want to have dozens of children until their bodies give out, but that’s not the majority of women. Real feminists remember all women, not just the teeny tiny minority who behave like you want them to.
Big questions remain — not just for a woman considering abortion, but for us.
What do we do to raise expectations that will make a real difference for women?
Interestingly, throughout this entire series, they are sly and devious about what they intend to do, which is ban abortion and, in the long run, contraception. That would make a big difference for women, but it wouldn’t be a “feminist” difference. You can slap a big bow on a box of shit, but that doesn’t make it chocolate truffles.
How can we transform our society into one that that celebrates womanhood, supports mothers, honors fathers, and cherishes every new life?
Interestingly, the facts show that there’s one big factor—when people can choose when they have children, they have better lives and happier families.
This part makes me think that Foster is aware that I’m reviewing her letters:
That may sound ridiculous in an age where sassy put-downs make someone the media darling of the moment. Sure, that can make anyone feel smug and satisfied in the short run.
But does it help create the solutions women need?
No, but it certainly helps stop people who are trying to hurt women like Feminists for Life is.
29 Responses to “Feminists for Life wants to know if you’ve quit thinking yet”
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[…] Amanda caps off her look at Feminists for Life and their so-called “Pro-Woman Answers for Pro-Choice Questionsâ€? with this post. […]
I love your writing, Amanda. I think your analysis is spot-on. It’s interesting that she wrote “internalize”. People sure reveal a lot about themselves with even the smallest elements of language, don’t they? The Devil is in the details and all that….
Kind of reminds me of a self-proclaimed Nice Guy I’ve had the misfortune of working with. He once said: “I let let my wife paint the hallway”. Then, he talks about how he loves women ‘cuz they all are so nurturing and shit. Just like the Feminists for Life, the hostility towards women is barely under the surface.
Amanda, thanks again. I will need the pure awesomeness of your razor-sharp wit and incisive mind to carry me through the next few shmaltzy, uber-Fundie days.
It will be good to remember that not EVERYone has gone completely batshit insane.
Spot on, as always, Amanda. “Pro-life” and “feminist” go together like “vegan” and “butcher” or “gun-toting” and “pacifist.” They are all total fucking oxymorons. Period, Full stop. End of story.
Patricia Heaton is anti-Christ.
Thanks for covering this series, Amanda. It’s sad that a group labelling themselves as “feminists” can actually be so anti-woman, but it’s important to know the truth about them the next time someone tells me “you can too be a feminist and want to make all women’s decisions for them!” ‘Cause no - you can’t.
“Internalize”? WTF? Using fancy words does not make you sound smart, especially when you use them wrong.
Were you able to internalize the answers?
Yes, I printed off your emails and put them in my vagina.
[…] Amanda’s concluding her series on Feminists for Life with a post summarizing that the organization’s feminist or otherwise pro-woman credentials don’t extend beyond its name. She quotes from the final email in a series of anti-choice mass mailings, […]
Is it just me, or did FFL completely gloss over facts like maternal mortality, which shot up in Romania when Ceausescu outlawed abortion and birth control and then sank when the post-communist government relegalized abortion?
“media darling of the moment”?
“of the moment“???
Ridic — not of the moment, but for all time.
Merry Christmas, you media darling, you, and to all the Darlingettes, and a better 2007 for all.
When I first heard the name “Feminists For Life” I assumed it was a group pledging to remain feminists until they died. Then I read your series and laughed my ass off; they’re neither feminists nor are they in favor of anyone’s lives. Since, you know, being in favor of lives means actually trying to help people who are alive, gosh, yes, even if it means sacrificing the occasional — or frequent — clump of cells within them.
Your responses are some of the best reading I’ve done online all year.
“Pro-life� and “feminist� go together like “vegan� and “butcher� or “gun-toting� and “pacifist.�
It’s entirely possible to be “pro-life” without wanting to prohibit abortion or use fear and shame to prevent women from getting them. A pro-life feminist might well argue that the way to end abortion is for safe, affordable contraception to be available to all women and for women to have control over their bodies rather than being playthings of men.
She wouldn’t wallow in the Girls Are For Breeding nonsense that powers FFL, though.
Is it just me, or did FFL completely gloss over facts like maternal mortality, which shot up in Romania when Ceausescu outlawed abortion and birth control and then sank when the post-communist government relegalized abortion?
I know everyone scoffed when Bill O’Reilly said that stuff a few months back about women not dying in childbirth anymore or whatever, but last year in particular I came across a number of “pro-lifers” online who really seemed to believe that women just didn’t die in childbirth anymore. When it was pointed out to one that this was, in fact, not the case, and that many women came near death due to childbirth, she basically… shrugged and said that women should just …deal with it. I wouldn’t be surprised if a substantial number of “pro-lifers” believed, despite all evidence, that childbirth isn’t dangerous.
Childbirth is indeed not dangerous, when the health system is up to first-world standards and the pregnancy has no complications. Of course, early-term abortion is even less dangerous…
“…sassy put-downs…”
“Sassy put-downs?? That explains a lot. This women is writing for “Dick and Jane” readers. A bit too condescending even for that audience, though.
Oh, oh, oh. Look, look, look. See Mommy celebrate womanhood. Count the pretty martini glasses. One, two, three, four, five. Mommy sure has a lot to celebrate every afternoon.
Safe, affordable, available contraception is a totally worthwhile goal. But the need for safe, affordable, available, legal abortions is never gonna go away. Unanticipated things happen; circumstances change; weirdness takes over, and we’re just always going to need access to abortion. The medical community still needs to learn how to do the procedure, it still has to be an option, and we still need to deal with it. The experience of having an abortion is different for each woman or girl, but I’ve pretty much internalized that abortion is not the end of the goddamn world, especially when it’s done properly and leaves you with your internal bits intact, so you can have much-wanted babies later, instead of all scarred up and unable to conceive at all, ever.
“gun-toting� and “pacifist.�
or it turns out like the story about the Quaker who confronts a burglar in their home with a shotgun and says:
“Friend. I mean thee no harm, but thou art standing where I am about to shoot”
Childbirth is indeed not dangerous, when the health system is up to first-world standards and the pregnancy has no complications.
Of course to ensure there’s no complications you need excellent pre-natal care also, and to avoid the horrors of post-partum depression and various psychological malardies you need ready access to a good mental health infrastructure (which exactly fuck all people have whether they have ordinary medical insurance or not). And it wouldn’t exactly hurt if the woman in question was able to actually decide when to give birth and raise a child rather than rely on the whims of falty rubber.
And of course all of those would also do a incredible amount of good for the children involved as well.
The thing that really sucks and kills women is the lack of pre-natal care though (especially if you’re a woc), between that and the lack of ready abortion access you might as well just have fundimentalists go from house to house executing mothers and their children for sluttiness, and the defeat of anti-choice policies in SD didn’t actually help much because you don’t need to legally ban something if you’re able to make it inaccessible through socio-economic means that leave women unable to get what they need - abortion, pre-natal care or whatever else - and so they sitll achieve their end goal of killing women.
Anti-choice policies are just the mahdi army death squads by other means.
1)”…..make someone the media darling of the moment…..smug and satisfied in the short run.”
Shit!….that sounds like my blo`godess*. I am so proud of her.
2)’Internalize’ = set firmly in the ‘belief’ lockbox.
*[just tried that..?on a second look…oh well- it’s meant -well]
Happ be with ye .Do well & enjoy good fortune in the New Year.
Mythago, as long as this includes allowing safe, legal abortion, I much prefer your definition of “pro-life” to the one currently in practice.
I’ve often thought that Crisis Pregnancy Centers could be such wonderful resources for women who would rather not terminate their pregnancies if they weren’t such guilt-tripping, lying, religio-propaganda spouting entities. Rep. Henry Waxman conducted a study in which he found that 87% of CPCs lied to (abortion/breast cancer, post-abortion depression, embryo/fetus feels pain at day 1, etc.) their “patients” who came seeking help. I’d like to know who the 13% are so that I can recommend them to women, but, so far, no one has come forth with a positive CPC experience. *sigh
“Oh, oh, oh. Look, look, look. See Mommy celebrate womanhood. Count the pretty martini glasses. One, two, three, four, five. Mommy sure has a lot to celebrate every afternoon.”
Look at Mommy drink,
One glass for Tommy who has to clean his room
One glass for Becca who’s looking at boys too soon
One glass for Jimmy with arm in cast and bill to boot
One glass for Susie who just ran out the door in her birthday suit
and one for the little one in the crib, crying for a diaper change
Oh what fun for mommy today
Why does she always say, “Go away! Go away!”?
I’ve often thought that Crisis Pregnancy Centers could be such wonderful resources for women who would rather not terminate their pregnancies if they weren’t such guilt-tripping, lying, religio-propaganda spouting entities.
Word. There are certainly women who don’t WANT to discuss the option of abortion, and could use real support. I wouldn’t trust people who think abortion causes breast cancer to be able to give a pregnant woman useful medical advice, much less help her get WIC.
we have something akin to a good CPC in these parts - but 1) they don’t call themselves a CPC and 2) they decidedly advertise that they are only for young women who have already made the choice to continue their pregnancies.
Oddly enough, the people who run it are 100% pro-choice. They just thought there should be an option for those who chose parenthood. Instead of guilt and maybe some diapers, they offer counseling, prenatal/postnatal care, parenthood classes, clothing, bedding, baby supplies, diapers, mentoring and job training, up until the baby is 5.
This group covers both first time mothers and fathers up to the age of 25. Their only requirement is that they come for weekly meetings, but they offer transportation and childcare and the meetings can be at any time of day between 6 am and midnight 6 days a week, so it’s not an arduous requirment. They help these families connect with others in their situation, and help them get the tools they need in order to be successful parents.
Amanda-I’ve been lurking and reading this series since it started. Thank you for your “sassy put-downs” and fantastic analysis, getting the e-mails sent to you instead of poisoning my mailbox. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed it!
Oddly enough, the people who run it are 100% pro-choice.
That’s not at all odd, the most a basic requirement for being anti-choice is a deep seated refusal to know anythin about pregnancies, motherhood or raising a child - whereas it’s very hard to know everything needed knowing to run a decent CPC and to not be pro-choice.
Alon Levy, that’s simply not true. Women still do die of pregancy and complications in the US, even with insurance and hospitals. The condition placenta praevia, frex, can kill you in minutes if you start hemmoraging: choosing to continue a pregnancy in that case is quite literally playing Russian Roulette with your life. The chance is (and always was) small, but very real, that it won’t sort itself out as the pregnancy progresses, and you might rip open inside and bleed out before they can get a transfusion going.
If that doesn’t scare you from the thought of casual childbirth, I’m not sure what will.
magikmama, do they take contributions?
What makes me sad is that everything a single mother in poverty needs should be coming from the government with the only string attached that her child is cared for.