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	<title>Comments on: Reminder: The anti-choice movement is genocidal</title>
	<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/11/10/reminder-the-anti-choice-movement-is-genocidal/</link>
	<description>Just another WordPress weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 09:43:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Feministe &raquo; He-Man Woman-Haters Club Goes to Church</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/11/10/reminder-the-anti-choice-movement-is-genocidal/#comment-283586</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 20:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/11/10/reminder-the-anti-choice-movement-is-genocidal/#comment-283586</guid>
					<description>[...] Where else have I heard this sword imagery before? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[&#8230;] Where else have I heard this sword imagery before? [&#8230;]
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		<title>by: Deep Thought</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/11/10/reminder-the-anti-choice-movement-is-genocidal/#comment-265354</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:05:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/11/10/reminder-the-anti-choice-movement-is-genocidal/#comment-265354</guid>
					<description>Plee,
  Sorry, my lousy spelling sunk me. I, too, have a large family (and growing) and know many people with large families. Many of us in my local group are mixed race ourselves or in mixed couples. This meme that large families are racist or genocidal is so ludicrous that I can't believe that it exists. However, even if you, me, and every one in the quiverfull movement *were* racists (and, BTW, we're not) that would not make us, or the having of large families, genocidal. That was my attempted point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Plee,<br />
  Sorry, my lousy spelling sunk me. I, too, have a large family (and growing) and know many people with large families. Many of us in my local group are mixed race ourselves or in mixed couples. This meme that large families are racist or genocidal is so ludicrous that I can&#8217;t believe that it exists. However, even if you, me, and every one in the quiverfull movement *were* racists (and, BTW, we&#8217;re not) that would not make us, or the having of large families, genocidal. That was my attempted point.
</p>
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		<title>by: plee</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/11/10/reminder-the-anti-choice-movement-is-genocidal/#comment-265297</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 10:35:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/11/10/reminder-the-anti-choice-movement-is-genocidal/#comment-265297</guid>
					<description>Deep Thought,

I do not know what you mean by *is*.  I do not believe that by having as many kids as one can in order to repopulate some minority numbers, i.e. conservative Christians.  I also do not see that as a mandate in the Bible.  The Bible talks about children as a blessing and not a curse.  I do not see people with 2 or less kids as evil.  People have many reasons for the size of their families.  My concern here is that the misconceptions that are constantly being put forth.  I cannot address misconceptions about left leaning liberals as that is not my experience.  However, I can say with certainty, not all people with large families are genocidal racists.  I have no wish to do away with any people group and neither does anyone I know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Deep Thought,</p>
	<p>I do not know what you mean by *is*.  I do not believe that by having as many kids as one can in order to repopulate some minority numbers, i.e. conservative Christians.  I also do not see that as a mandate in the Bible.  The Bible talks about children as a blessing and not a curse.  I do not see people with 2 or less kids as evil.  People have many reasons for the size of their families.  My concern here is that the misconceptions that are constantly being put forth.  I cannot address misconceptions about left leaning liberals as that is not my experience.  However, I can say with certainty, not all people with large families are genocidal racists.  I have no wish to do away with any people group and neither does anyone I know.
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		<title>by: Deep Thought</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/11/10/reminder-the-anti-choice-movement-is-genocidal/#comment-264920</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Nov 2006 05:21:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/11/10/reminder-the-anti-choice-movement-is-genocidal/#comment-264920</guid>
					<description>plee,
  May I point out something? Even if you and your friends felt that the *is* something wrong with people who have 2 or less kids, even to the point of feeling that it was 'evil' - that would not make any of you 'genocidal', would it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>plee,<br />
  May I point out something? Even if you and your friends felt that the *is* something wrong with people who have 2 or less kids, even to the point of feeling that it was &#8216;evil&#8217; - that would not make any of you &#8216;genocidal&#8217;, would it?
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		<title>by: plee</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/11/10/reminder-the-anti-choice-movement-is-genocidal/#comment-264225</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Nov 2006 22:22:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/11/10/reminder-the-anti-choice-movement-is-genocidal/#comment-264225</guid>
					<description>I have to say that after reading this article, and the handful of replies I am very sad.  I would be considered one of your &quot;wingnuts&quot;(whatever that is.)  I am college educated(magna cum laude-not that it means anything) and fairly well read.  To have any children is a blessing.  To have many is to be blessed even more.  My children spent today playing &quot;star wars&quot;, train tracks, games, and puzzles.  I joined in with them as I could.  I also home-school.  I realize I have just made an enemy with probably every one on this site.  I dont mean to.  What I am trying to say is that I have never and I mean never encountered anyone who believes as I do that is racist.  Most of my friends are bi-racial couples, as am I.  Too many times I hear that the &quot;right wing&quot; believes only stories about a fringe &quot;left wing&quot; group.  Well guess what, that is what I see here.  I am sure there are 'Christians' out there who are racist, women haters, etc.  That is far from the norm.  BTW, I happen to live in a large metro area(New York), am in contact with many 6+ children families daily.  They are pretty normal and do not see working women as evil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I have to say that after reading this article, and the handful of replies I am very sad.  I would be considered one of your &#8220;wingnuts&#8221;(whatever that is.)  I am college educated(magna cum laude-not that it means anything) and fairly well read.  To have any children is a blessing.  To have many is to be blessed even more.  My children spent today playing &#8220;star wars&#8221;, train tracks, games, and puzzles.  I joined in with them as I could.  I also home-school.  I realize I have just made an enemy with probably every one on this site.  I dont mean to.  What I am trying to say is that I have never and I mean never encountered anyone who believes as I do that is racist.  Most of my friends are bi-racial couples, as am I.  Too many times I hear that the &#8220;right wing&#8221; believes only stories about a fringe &#8220;left wing&#8221; group.  Well guess what, that is what I see here.  I am sure there are &#8216;Christians&#8217; out there who are racist, women haters, etc.  That is far from the norm.  BTW, I happen to live in a large metro area(New York), am in contact with many 6+ children families daily.  They are pretty normal and do not see working women as evil.
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		<title>by: Mike the Mad Biologist</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/11/10/reminder-the-anti-choice-movement-is-genocidal/#comment-262216</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Nov 2006 11:00:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/11/10/reminder-the-anti-choice-movement-is-genocidal/#comment-262216</guid>
					<description>&lt;strong&gt;Saying What They Mean...&lt;/strong&gt;

One of the maddening things about the creationists is that they are rarely forthright about their agenda.  Euphimisms like &quot;teach the controversy&quot; and &quot;fairness&quot; abound....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><strong>Saying What They Mean&#8230;</strong></p>
	<p>One of the maddening things about the creationists is that they are rarely forthright about their agenda.  Euphimisms like &#8220;teach the controversy&#8221; and &#8220;fairness&#8221; abound&#8230;.
</p>
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		<title>by: Deep Thought</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/11/10/reminder-the-anti-choice-movement-is-genocidal/#comment-260764</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Nov 2006 19:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/11/10/reminder-the-anti-choice-movement-is-genocidal/#comment-260764</guid>
					<description>*chirp chirp*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>*chirp chirp*
</p>
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		<title>by: Deep Thought</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/11/10/reminder-the-anti-choice-movement-is-genocidal/#comment-259484</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 19:19:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/11/10/reminder-the-anti-choice-movement-is-genocidal/#comment-259484</guid>
					<description>David Neiwert,
  Pretty coy yourself, since a single link to a quiverfull site advocating any of this would speak more than your posting. While speaking in vague terms about a &quot;powerful continuum&quot; connecting racial supremacists with &quot;anti-choicers&quot; you actually point out... a powerful continuum connecting racial supremacists with early advocates of birth control and abortion.

  Again - guilt by association is easy - and cheap. Let's see some quiverfull quotes directly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>David Neiwert,<br />
  Pretty coy yourself, since a single link to a quiverfull site advocating any of this would speak more than your posting. While speaking in vague terms about a &#8220;powerful continuum&#8221; connecting racial supremacists with &#8220;anti-choicers&#8221; you actually point out&#8230; a powerful continuum connecting racial supremacists with early advocates of birth control and abortion.</p>
	<p>  Again - guilt by association is easy - and cheap. Let&#8217;s see some quiverfull quotes directly.
</p>
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		<title>by: David Neiwert</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/11/10/reminder-the-anti-choice-movement-is-genocidal/#comment-259284</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 14:53:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/11/10/reminder-the-anti-choice-movement-is-genocidal/#comment-259284</guid>
					<description>Incidentally, Deep Thought is not such a deep thinker.

The reality is gthat there's a powerful continuum connecting white supremacists and the anti-choicers, especially since the former have been raving about the decline of white reproduction for the better part of a century -- Lothrop Stoddard and Madison Grant being good early examples. 

The suggestion that &quot;hard&quot; eugenicists like Stoddard were deeply involved with early feminists (whose involvement with eugenics was of the &quot;soft&quot; variety) is a conflation that isn't borne out by the historical record. Nearly all &quot;hard&quot; (or &quot;negative&quot;) eugenicists advocated birth control primarily as a means of controlling the reproduction rate of nonwhites, including sterilization and other forms of coercion. &quot;Soft&quot; (or &quot;positive&quot;) eugenicists found this notion abhorrent and argued against it at every turn; for them, birth control was a means for women to gain control of their bodies. (Margaret Sanger, who I assume he's referencing, was something of a mixed bag, someone who fell into both categories.)

In any event, the anti-feminist right today, especially the fundamentalist &quot;Quiverfull&quot; types, are very closely tied into the far-right continuum, especially through the whole home-schooling scene. By way of example, one of the largest suppliers of &quot;Christian&quot; home-schooling materials is my old friend Doug Wilson, who also &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=376&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;touts the theory&lt;/a&gt; that slavery was a benign institution. 

Of course, most of these believers are very coy about their beliefs on race because they know that they would be called racist and demonized, so instead they talk about fighting back on demographics -- though it's important to note that this view of demographics is basically an us-vs-them thing: white unbelievers (especially atheists, who we all know have abortions recreationially) are cast into the same &quot;them&quot; category as blacks and Latinos and homosexuals.

As the issue of personal fertility becomes intertwined with notions of preserving white Christian culture, this continuuum broadens and deepens. It isn't hard to see this coalescence -- just read Pat Buchanan's latest book, or read Paul Weyrich's many rants on the subject or wander over to the VDare and American Renaissance and see how they hold forth. If you can't see it, you're just not looking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Incidentally, Deep Thought is not such a deep thinker.</p>
	<p>The reality is gthat there&#8217;s a powerful continuum connecting white supremacists and the anti-choicers, especially since the former have been raving about the decline of white reproduction for the better part of a century &#8212; Lothrop Stoddard and Madison Grant being good early examples. </p>
	<p>The suggestion that &#8220;hard&#8221; eugenicists like Stoddard were deeply involved with early feminists (whose involvement with eugenics was of the &#8220;soft&#8221; variety) is a conflation that isn&#8217;t borne out by the historical record. Nearly all &#8220;hard&#8221; (or &#8220;negative&#8221;) eugenicists advocated birth control primarily as a means of controlling the reproduction rate of nonwhites, including sterilization and other forms of coercion. &#8220;Soft&#8221; (or &#8220;positive&#8221;) eugenicists found this notion abhorrent and argued against it at every turn; for them, birth control was a means for women to gain control of their bodies. (Margaret Sanger, who I assume he&#8217;s referencing, was something of a mixed bag, someone who fell into both categories.)</p>
	<p>In any event, the anti-feminist right today, especially the fundamentalist &#8220;Quiverfull&#8221; types, are very closely tied into the far-right continuum, especially through the whole home-schooling scene. By way of example, one of the largest suppliers of &#8220;Christian&#8221; home-schooling materials is my old friend Doug Wilson, who also <a href="http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=376" rel="nofollow">touts the theory</a> that slavery was a benign institution. </p>
	<p>Of course, most of these believers are very coy about their beliefs on race because they know that they would be called racist and demonized, so instead they talk about fighting back on demographics &#8212; though it&#8217;s important to note that this view of demographics is basically an us-vs-them thing: white unbelievers (especially atheists, who we all know have abortions recreationially) are cast into the same &#8220;them&#8221; category as blacks and Latinos and homosexuals.</p>
	<p>As the issue of personal fertility becomes intertwined with notions of preserving white Christian culture, this continuuum broadens and deepens. It isn&#8217;t hard to see this coalescence &#8212; just read Pat Buchanan&#8217;s latest book, or read Paul Weyrich&#8217;s many rants on the subject or wander over to the VDare and American Renaissance and see how they hold forth. If you can&#8217;t see it, you&#8217;re just not looking.
</p>
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		<title>by: David Neiwert</title>
		<link>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/11/10/reminder-the-anti-choice-movement-is-genocidal/#comment-259251</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Nov 2006 14:02:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/11/10/reminder-the-anti-choice-movement-is-genocidal/#comment-259251</guid>
					<description>Amanda:

Great post. I'm especially intrigued by the graphic at the top. What the hell &quot;anti-feminist&quot; site ran that? I've seen nearly identical graphics at White Revolution and Stormfront.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Amanda:</p>
	<p>Great post. I&#8217;m especially intrigued by the graphic at the top. What the hell &#8220;anti-feminist&#8221; site ran that? I&#8217;ve seen nearly identical graphics at White Revolution and Stormfront.
</p>
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