Comments on: I get “feminist” mail http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/10/05/i-get-feminist-mail/ Just another WordPress weblog Fri, 10 Feb 2012 16:06:58 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=1.5.1-alpha by: Sandy http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/10/05/i-get-feminist-mail/#comment-221533 Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:05:12 +0100 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/10/05/i-get-feminist-mail/#comment-221533 I also wanted to say I came from a welfare home and that my stance has nothing to do with religion or political affiliation as I am sure this will be questioned. I also wanted to say I came from a welfare home and that my stance has nothing to do with religion or political affiliation as I am sure this will be questioned.

]]> by: Sandy http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/10/05/i-get-feminist-mail/#comment-221530 Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:02:40 +0100 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/10/05/i-get-feminist-mail/#comment-221530 I am a pro-life feminist. I believe that I should be honored and accepted for my uniquely feminine qualities, not by wether or not I can do the same things as a man. I am proud of my bodies ability to bear children. I am proud of the fact that I left my job after attaining my bachelors degree to stay home with my child and (get this), I enjoy it!!!! I love my nurturing side and the desire to mother. I want people to accept this as legitimate and WORTHWHILE!!! A modern feminist (which actually is the original form of feminism) doesnt not seek validation by comparing herself with men. She seeks it through acceptance of what makes her a WOMAN! I am thankful for what feminism has done for me and how it has allowed me to go to school, vote, and be considered human. But I dont agree with the archaic turn it took with Roe v Wade. Were I raped, molested, or found to have a pregnancy with "defective" child, I would say the same (by the way, the only type of pregnancy known to threaten the life of a mother is ectopic which is extremely rare). Please dont be narrow minded and attempt to silence those who oppose you because of fear or hatred. Why is my view as a woman invalid? Why do you attempt to silence those like me? Also, I can see that most people here will attempt to mince my words and argue semantics. Please just look at my stance! I am a pro-life feminist. I believe that I should be honored and accepted for my uniquely feminine qualities, not by wether or not I can do the same things as a man. I am proud of my bodies ability to bear children. I am proud of the fact that I left my job after attaining my bachelors degree to stay home with my child and (get this), I enjoy it!!!! I love my nurturing side and the desire to mother. I want people to accept this as legitimate and WORTHWHILE!!! A modern feminist (which actually is the original form of feminism) doesnt not seek validation by comparing herself with men. She seeks it through acceptance of what makes her a WOMAN! I am thankful for what feminism has done for me and how it has allowed me to go to school, vote, and be considered human. But I dont agree with the archaic turn it took with Roe v Wade. Were I raped, molested, or found to have a pregnancy with “defective” child, I would say the same (by the way, the only type of pregnancy known to threaten the life of a mother is ectopic which is extremely rare). Please dont be narrow minded and attempt to silence those who oppose you because of fear or hatred. Why is my view as a woman invalid? Why do you attempt to silence those like me?
Also, I can see that most people here will attempt to mince my words and argue semantics. Please just look at my stance!

]]> by: Djur http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/10/05/i-get-feminist-mail/#comment-210358 Sat, 07 Oct 2006 02:06:10 +0100 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/10/05/i-get-feminist-mail/#comment-210358 Re: Jews for Jesus: <a href="http://jewsforjesus.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">This used to be a blog critical of the group</a>. Then JFJ sued Google and got the domain handed to them. They're litigious bastards and more or less fundamentalists to boot. For what it's worth, a lot of people also think well of the Salvation Army, another consistently creepy cheap-labor cult. Re: Jews for Jesus:

This used to be a blog critical of the group. Then JFJ sued Google and got the domain handed to them. They’re litigious bastards and more or less fundamentalists to boot.

For what it’s worth, a lot of people also think well of the Salvation Army, another consistently creepy cheap-labor cult.

]]> by: One Jewish Dyke http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/10/05/i-get-feminist-mail/#comment-210331 Sat, 07 Oct 2006 01:11:35 +0100 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/10/05/i-get-feminist-mail/#comment-210331 The rest of the Jewish population does not accept "Jews for Jesus" or Messianic "Jews" as Jewish. If the none of the leaders and few of the lay people of the religion accept your sect as part of the larger group, how can you claim that you are part of it? I see this as the perfect analogy for "Feminists" for Life. There are not all that many things that all Jews accept. (There is good reason for the saying "two Jews, three opinions.") Belief in Jesus as messiah is the one of the few things that qualifies as apostasy and will make other Jews consider you no longer Jewish. Your ethnicity is still Eastern European Jewish or Middle Eastern Jewish or Mediterranean Jewish, but your religion no longer is Jewish unless you renounce any belief that a messiah has already come. The rest of the Jewish population does not accept “Jews for Jesus” or Messianic “Jews” as Jewish. If the none of the leaders and few of the lay people of the religion accept your sect as part of the larger group, how can you claim that you are part of it? I see this as the perfect analogy for “Feminists” for Life. There are not all that many things that all Jews accept. (There is good reason for the saying “two Jews, three opinions.”) Belief in Jesus as messiah is the one of the few things that qualifies as apostasy and will make other Jews consider you no longer Jewish. Your ethnicity is still Eastern European Jewish or Middle Eastern Jewish or Mediterranean Jewish, but your religion no longer is Jewish unless you renounce any belief that a messiah has already come.

]]> by: twf http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/10/05/i-get-feminist-mail/#comment-210221 Fri, 06 Oct 2006 21:55:18 +0100 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/10/05/i-get-feminist-mail/#comment-210221 I would also like to comment on the "use contraception, don't get pregnant" bit. One comment on Plan B seems to assume that it's very effective, it's not. Or at least it wasn't when I took it (1997) when it was 87.5% effective. I got pregnant after the condom broke and after using the morning-after pill. And, in the group of 5 of us going through the pre-abortion counselling etc. together, 4 had used emergency contraception. We're not all irresponsible. I would also like to comment on the “use contraception, don’t get pregnant” bit. One comment on Plan B seems to assume that it’s very effective, it’s not. Or at least it wasn’t when I took it (1997) when it was 87.5% effective. I got pregnant after the condom broke and after using the morning-after pill. And, in the group of 5 of us going through the pre-abortion counselling etc. together, 4 had used emergency contraception. We’re not all irresponsible.

]]> by: NancyP http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/10/05/i-get-feminist-mail/#comment-210023 Fri, 06 Oct 2006 17:36:14 +0100 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/10/05/i-get-feminist-mail/#comment-210023 Triffid about 10 posts upthread has the idea. These FFL are likely part of the Buchananesque panic over "the browning of America". There has always been a segment of white America that has decried the low childbearing rate of the middle- and upper-class white woman of reasonable or high intelligence - and the supposedly higher rate of the racial minorities and lower-class uneducated whites. It is not surprising that eugenics has made a resurgence in a stagnant economy and in the fading of living memory of the Holocaust. Triffid about 10 posts upthread has the idea. These FFL are likely part of the Buchananesque panic over “the browning of America”. There has always been a segment of white America that has decried the low childbearing rate of the middle- and upper-class white woman of reasonable or high intelligence - and the supposedly higher rate of the racial minorities and lower-class uneducated whites. It is not surprising that eugenics has made a resurgence in a stagnant economy and in the fading of living memory of the Holocaust.

]]> by: ellenbrenna http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/10/05/i-get-feminist-mail/#comment-209822 Fri, 06 Oct 2006 13:12:08 +0100 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/10/05/i-get-feminist-mail/#comment-209822 I do not think there is anything wrong with their positions except for the glaring contraception omission. The position that women should have the final say on the moral, legal and medical status of something growing in their own bodies is not always accompanied by the kind of personal beliefs that you might expect. I know some people with consitent personal pro-life ethics that, unlike FFL, do not make calls for legal restrictions. There are more nuanced positions that do not involve hating teh Sex or thinking women are less than. Holding those positions should not force you to turn in your Feminist card. I do not think there is anything wrong with their positions except for the glaring contraception omission.

The position that women should have the final say on the moral, legal and medical status of something growing in their own bodies is not always accompanied by the kind of personal beliefs that you might expect. I know some people with consitent personal pro-life ethics that, unlike FFL, do not make calls for legal restrictions. There are more nuanced positions that do not involve hating teh Sex or thinking women are less than. Holding those positions should not force you to turn in your Feminist card.

]]> by: Jonquil http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/10/05/i-get-feminist-mail/#comment-209817 Fri, 06 Oct 2006 13:07:14 +0100 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/10/05/i-get-feminist-mail/#comment-209817 Actually, no, Chris. Many doctors forget to tell women that certain antibiotics (Amoxicillin, Doxycycline) make the Pill ineffective, as do certain other drugs (Topamax, St. John's Wort). You can be taking the Pill completely correctly and still find yourself pregnant because of this. Actually, no, Chris. Many doctors forget to tell women that certain antibiotics (Amoxicillin, Doxycycline) make the Pill ineffective, as do certain other drugs (Topamax, St. John’s Wort). You can be taking the Pill completely correctly and still find yourself pregnant because of this.

]]> by: Warren http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/10/05/i-get-feminist-mail/#comment-209725 Fri, 06 Oct 2006 11:11:30 +0100 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/10/05/i-get-feminist-mail/#comment-209725 <blockquote>But the main thing is getting people married off very young and starting them on producing babies straight away.</blockquote> Maybe they're trying to reverse the trend you pointed out <a href="http://pandagon.net/2006/10/05/the-natural-divorce-rate/" rel="nofollow">here</a>. Is it possible they're trying to do to feminism what the right-wing fanatics did to the Republicans? Infiltration in sheep's guise, then metastasizing once they're entrenched?

But the main thing is getting people married off very young and starting them on producing babies straight away.

Maybe they’re trying to reverse the trend you pointed out here.

Is it possible they’re trying to do to feminism what the right-wing fanatics did to the Republicans? Infiltration in sheep’s guise, then metastasizing once they’re entrenched?

]]> by: Terry Karney http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/10/05/i-get-feminist-mail/#comment-209697 Fri, 06 Oct 2006 10:15:03 +0100 http://pandagon.blogsome.com/2006/10/05/i-get-feminist-mail/#comment-209697 re Jews for Jesus: While they may not be "Christians" they also aren't Jews, since one of the few tenets of Judaism; to the point that, like some form of belief that Jesus was the Messiah is one of the few things which belongs to all Christian denomiations, even those the rest don't want to accept; see Jim Jones, is that the Messiah hasn't come. So declaring that the Messiah has come, makes one; at best, a splinter group of semi-Jews. Given that Jews for Jesus (I've, oddly enough, had to deal with them at several colleges I've attended/been affiliated with), as an organisation, are active proseltysers, aiming to convert the rest of Judaism so the Glorious End of Days (rtm) can come to pass; I lump them in with the rest of the wacky Christian set. They have a different sales-pitch, but they are end-timers. Not so offensive as most, but then not being Jewish, I didn't get preached to much. They were confused that I, a Catholic (no matter how lapsed) belonged to Hillel, and wasn't trying to convert people, but once I told them I wasn't Jewish, and was, nominally, Christian, they left me alone. Which I found more telling than anything else. They were on a mission, and that mission wasn't to convert the world to the right stripe of Christianity, but to "save" Jews from the error of their ways. re Jews for Jesus: While they may not be “Christians” they also aren’t Jews, since one of the few tenets of Judaism; to the point that, like some form of belief that Jesus was the Messiah is one of the few things which belongs to all Christian denomiations, even those the rest don’t want to accept; see Jim Jones, is that the Messiah hasn’t come.

So declaring that the Messiah has come, makes one; at best, a splinter group of semi-Jews.

Given that Jews for Jesus (I’ve, oddly enough, had to deal with them at several colleges I’ve attended/been affiliated with), as an organisation, are active proseltysers, aiming to convert the rest of Judaism so the Glorious End of Days (rtm) can come to pass; I lump them in with the rest of the wacky Christian set. They have a different sales-pitch, but they are end-timers. Not so offensive as most, but then not being Jewish, I didn’t get preached to much.

They were confused that I, a Catholic (no matter how lapsed) belonged to Hillel, and wasn’t trying to convert people, but once I told them I wasn’t Jewish, and was, nominally, Christian, they left me alone.

Which I found more telling than anything else. They were on a mission, and that mission wasn’t to convert the world to the right stripe of Christianity, but to “save” Jews from the error of their ways.

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