Yeah Amanda, what the hell? Don’t you know that, by wasting precious, precious man-hours on your stupid, petty, insignificant little beer commercial critique, you have singlehandedly held back the vastly more important same-sex marriage movement? Not that you should be writing on that, either, since you should be focused with laser-like precision on female genital mutilation. Though really, that’s a criminal waste of much-needed resources so long as there is slavery still going on in the world. Not that you should bother with that little nothing, though, since it’s obvious to anyone with half a brain that you should, through a combination of powerful stimulant drugs and a constantly-updating Pandagon comment window, be railing, railing I say, constantly at the brutality of not just that silly old slave trade, but the sex slave trade!

Anything less is really just a complete and total waste of your time, my time, the time of every other reader of this blog, the time of every single feminist and feminist supporter in the world, and a way of holding back the crusade against the single most important thing in the world, the sex slave trade.

Shit, did I say sex slave trade? I meant underage sex slave trade. Oh no, I myself have now wasted precious, irreplaceable man-hour resources!

Kochanie very kindly sent me a link to Here’s the thing. One reason guys put women on pedestals, metaphorically speaking, is in hopes of (metaphorically or actually) sneaking a glimpse up their skirts. But here’s the thing: The sort of thinking that …

Maybe I phrased my response poorly. My argument is not specific to the commercial in the sense of only applying to the commercial. Rather it is a general argument about minutae using this specific instance as supporting evidence.

“Second, the concept of effective use of limited resources is rather arbitrary to say the least. Who is to say what constitutes effective use or what constitutes limited resources for that matter?”

Sure I think there is a large grey area in the center but things that are far out to the extremes are pretty identifiable. I.e. sex slavery, forced abortions, honor killings, and so on are pretty clearly on the ‘important’ end of the scale. Maternal leave and workplace discrimination are probably toward the important end but we could argue the matter. Dsproportionate government distribution of sexes (i.e. is the presiden’t cabinet 50% female?) probably unimportant but in the grey area too. Stupid beer comercial? Way into unimportant side.

Another way to look at it is that the importance/unimportance has to be guaged by how well the issue can be sold to the masses. You have a good shot of convincing joe blow that workplace inequality is a real problem and should be fixed. You have no chance of convincing them that a miller commercial is a big problem and needs to be addressed. And in focussing on that ‘problem’ you will convince them that you have no legitimate greivances.

” it has yet to be illustrated how exactly commenting on the possible sexist overtones in a segment of pop culture hurts any feminist cause.”

Really? I thought this very argument was a case in point of proving it. The cause is hurt when feminists make themselves look like clowns. *Whether they are right or wrong.* If they look stupid they turn off support. they forment internal conflict. they lose momentum and they give ammo to their opponents.

Do you really imagine the right can’t use this over-reaction to their advantage? Yeah they can.

“I guess why this whole thing just annoys the hell out of me is because posts like “man lawâ€? are what makes this blog rock.”

I guess the question then is which do you value more: a blog that “rocks” or actual progress? If in the process of rocking the blog inhibits progress which do you choose?

Okay, two things confuse me here. One is that you did make part of the argument about the commercial when ya googled the “you poke it you own it” phrase. That was the whole damn crux of the original post that set this thread in motion and was the part of your post that I quoted.

Second, the concept of effective use of limited resources is rather arbitrary to say the least. Who is to say what constitutes effective use or what constitutes limited resources for that matter? That’s where this whole argument gets iffy for me. In addition to the basic premise that it’s Amanda’s blog and she can bitch about whatever she damn well pleases without checking with the feminist relevance police, it has yet to be illustrated how exactly commenting on the possible sexist overtones in a segment of pop culture hurts any feminist cause.

I guess why this whole thing just annoys the hell out of me is because posts like “man law” are what makes this blog rock. It’s got a little of everything, it’s funny as hell, brilliantly written, and alot of times my eyes are opened to things I haven’t even noticed before. To sit here and say this blog (or any other) has to stick to predetermined feminist talking points is just crap, to put it simply. Ya wanna focus on a cause? Go forth and kick some ass, but why force someone else to follow the same script?

No I didn’t. I wrote a post on a subject that I consider important: effective use of limited resources. Notice that my argument is not about the specifics of the beer commercial. It is about the generalized case.

Furthermore I already covered this in my first post wherein I explained why Amanda is wrong in considering the author to be putting forth a self-refuting argument.

Since ya like to have fun with numbers I might point out that you just wrote a 10+ paragraph post on a subject you deem unimportant. It’s your 3rd post on the unimportant topic in this thread. Add in your extensive research and you’ve seem to clocked quite a number of hours yourself on this unimportant topic. Ironic.

There’s two ways you can look at the issue. On the one hand you can say that sexism is (as amanda puts it) systemic and you have to try and counter it in detail. Every little piece, on all fronts, simultaneously. On the other hand you can say that there is no way in hell feminists have the resources to do even a half assed job of that and should concentrate on places where they can actually make a difference.

Both sides have good points. Valid points. There certainly is a systemic angle to the problem and the way that little sexist issues reinforce big sexist issues is a problem. But you do also have a very limited amount of time, money, and energy you can put toward this cause. There are places where you can make a big difference.

Someone mentioned above maternal leave. Big issue. Makes a huge difference in the lives of millions of women as well as millions of men and children. Absolutely a fight worth taking on.

Does anyone here get how a beer commercial doesn’t really rate compared to that? Seriously, not only is it not the same ballpark it isn’t the even a similar sport.

There are 57 responses to this thread alone. Via google I find close to 16000 sites that are found by looking for “you poke it you own it” and either ‘feminist’ or ‘feminism.’

16000.

Let’s conservatively say that an avergae of 15 minutes was spent on each. There’s 4000 man hours that might have been used a bit more productively. It adds up fast, huh?

Furthermore nobody bothered to address the other point I made which is that fighting this kind of issue makes it very easy for your opponents to paint you as raving nutters. To the average person the slogan is stupid and tacky but simply does not warrant this kind of reaction, precisely because it is far too unimportant to bother getting upset about.

You obviously feel differently. That’s fine, you certainly can. But you should stop and consider the matter from an pragmatism standpoint.

If you have 4000 man hours to devote to feminist issues do you use them
A) on a topic where success will mean a significant change, or
B) on a minor issue, where you will make no real difference even if you succeed and he effort makes it easier for you to lose ground in other areas?

Seems like an easy choice. I know it’s nice to get all fired up about things. It feels good. Gets the juices flowing. It is however a luxury you may regret when the bill comes due. Just think about it.