No, this isn’t going to be a post on how I met Caitlin Flanagan and she recruited me. This post is in defense of the term “douchebag” as an insult. This is necessary because of this post claiming that terms ending in “bag” are inherently sexist. And you don’t pick on Twisty’s glorious coinage “godbag” without tangling with me. I can think of a shitload of terms that end with “bag” that have no sexist connotations to them, including “windbag” and “shitbag”, both of which actually tend to be aimed at men way more than women.
The truth is that “bag” is just a word meaning “that which is full of something”. As Twisty explains:
A godbag, if you will permit me the impropriety of quoting from my own rather extensive body of work on the subject, is “a bag full of hate and self-loathing wearing stage makeup that makes it look like a televangelist.� The suffix “-bag� alludes, not to a douche or to a woman whose countenance does not conform to patriarchal beauty standards, but to a “sack� or other sort of carryall.
“Sack” is a slang term for testicles, but that doesn’t mean when I say someone weighs more than a sack of potatoes, I’m saying they weigh more than someone’s nut sack, because that would be stupid.
But now that we’ve come back from the abyss a little here, I want to defend “douchebag” as a perfectly feminist insult. After all, it’s a bag full of douche and we good feminists know that douche is definitely a Tool of the Patriarchy. As such, I would suggest that when people use the term “douchebag”, they’re actually calling them a tool, which is also a fine word that gets wielded often against the slack-jawed morons who reflexively support the patriarchy because they just know their reward is coming for it any day now. For instance, I once knew a guy who thought he was styling when he wore a tie with the Playboy bunny on it. That guy was both a douchebag and a tool, as they are synonymous.
Heart’s post implies that the term “douchebag” would be used as a synonym with other, more obviously sexist insults like “pussy”. It’s not out of the question that one can be called a tool, a pussy, and a douchebag simultaneously (Alan Colmes comes to mind), but if you would call someone a tool but not a pussy*, you’re likely to feel free to call him a douchebag. The reverse isn’t true. I’ve drawn up a chart below the fold to demonstrate.
| Annoying Man | Tool? |
Pussy? | Douchebag? |
| Adam Carolla |
Yes | No | Yes |
| Rush Limbaugh |
Yes | No, but he is a weiner | Yes |
| The “Can you hear me now?” guy |
I hate to say it, but no | Yes | No, because if he’s a douchebag, then we are all douchebags. |
| Jeff Goldstein |
The Platonic ideal | He’s really more of a crybaby. | I do believe this is his nickname. |
| Emeril |
No way | Probably. | Of course not, though he is irritating. |
| John Tesh | Yes. | Yes. | Yes. |
| Ted Nugent | YES. | No, though it would be cool if he was. | Yes. |
| Scott McClellan | No. | Yes. | Nah, it’s not the first word that comes to mind when Piggy Eyes would do better. |
| Tony Snow | Yes. | No. | He seems too unnatural to be called anything as squishy as a douchebag, so one point against my argument. |
| Fred Durst |
Yes. | No, but he is a jackoff. | When he cries, his eyes lose that not-so-fresh-feeling for a reason. |
Make up your own in comments or tell me I’m completely off the mark or whatever.
I’m thrilled to my teeth that for once, an insult in our language actually condemns a tool of oppression, when most insults fall on the pro-oppression side. And yes, shooting a bunch of chemicals up what my grandmother delicately called your “monkey” is an oppressive act, even if douches do come in packaging that appealingly resembles some of your more teeth-grindingly bad Earth Mother-y art.
Is this a douche ad from the 70s or some “empowering” feminist art? Only your blogger knows for sure.
As you can tell, I’m a bit aggro over this sort of nonsense tonight. It’s one thing to actually try to make a logical argument for sexism in the details by demonstrating that something that harms women is being praised. But dude, if you’re comparing something that harms women (douchebags) to Adam Carolla, that’s not praise, that’s out and out criticism of that thing that harms women. I hardly see a feminist army marching down the street waving douchebags as a show of female empowerment.
“Hey ho, natural, unoffensive vaginal odor has got to go!”
But hey, I’ve been wrong before.
*If you were so inclined to use such language, as I am not.
108 Responses to “Does this mean I have to start smelling like vinegar and lavendar?”
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I think you have the wrong link there.
Hey, what douchebag made a link to a perfectly good article about G-dub mountainbiking in goatmating territory?
I feel unqualified to comment on douches [i]per se[/i], though I’ve long believed that someone somewhere must market a male douche (insertion point can vary), if only so we can hear, “Al, do you ever get that ‘not so fresh’ feeling?
At any rate, I will say that Dick Cheney is both a pussy and a douchebag, but not a tool. George W. Bush hits the trifecta.
I can totally see the advert for that;
“Got that sun burning your boobies, giant rabbits sitting in some trees, tweety birds flying aorund your head, slightly hung over elven princess feeling? Use new Pneumato-Douche! Using the latest in iron mongering bellow technology, you too can squirt noxious chemicals up your vagina so that your Man, who is too scared of vulvas to go down on you anyway, doesn’t complain loudly about your intimate feminine odours during thanks giving ever again!”
I use douchebag all the time. Uhm, you know, verbally.
What I really need is a word that will be generally understood that does the work of “pussy” without making me feel a tad guilty. “Pussy” itself strikes out because of its other connotations (though I don’t like using it as slang for “vagina”), “Wuss” is too gradeschool playground, I use “Pansy” a lot but my defense that I’m insulting the flower and not effeminacy/homosexuality is pretty flimsy. I want a grownup “Wuss” that encompasses not merely physical but also mental and moral cowardice that doesn’t also indicate women or gay people as especially possessed of those qualities. Any suggestions? Cause vaginas don’t deserve to be associated with that.
I’m all for ruthlessly rooting out the offensive etymology of words in current vogue so as to seem superior to the rest of y’all in my politicoolness.
But Heart’s analysis of the word “godbag” is irredeemably daft. It’s the kind of whingey reaosning that causes people to forward emails with spurious definitions of the phrase “rule of thumb” or the word “picnic.” It’s a creationist-style argument from incredulity: “I can’t imagine any definition other than the one I just made up, and so therefore that differing definition by the person that popularized the word is meaningless.”
Feh.
The most frequent use of the phrase “that douchebag” that I’ve seen recently has been in reference to that douchebag Bobby Flay, which is how everyone in the house refers to him now. The first time I read it (on a cooking blog, though I don’t remember which one) I realized it was the only proper appellation for that douchebag. Of course, on Saturday nights, he becomes the Iron Douchebag.
As to your wonderful chart, how would you rank John McCain? I’m thinking he’s heading for a clean sweep as he blows his way through the godbags.
It’s all in the delivery.
I figure that if I call people “dicks” and “pricks,” it’s OK to call someone a “pussy.” I’ve even occasionally asserted that I’m a pussy in some respect. It strikes me as funny that “pussy” and “cunt” have such different connotations. If one is a pussy, one isn’t a cunt, and vice versa.
You’ll pry that motherfucking term from my cold dead larynx.
Well, not “you,” Amanda. The coming humorless feminazocracy, I meant.
“Douchebag” always struck me as sexist, so I don’t use the term. I appreciate your counterargument, but I think a lot of women who are OK with “bad words” generally would find it offensive. I agree that the notion that anything ending in “bag” is sexist is absurd. Calling someone a “scumbag” is perfectly fine IMO. I haven’t used “godbag,” but I might start doing so. Incidentally, “cocksucker” insults gay men and most women, so I never use that word.
Quaterician, what’s wrong with coward, weakhearted, spineless, whiney degenerate? Or, for that matter, I don’t think wimp has any other meanings.
I say cobag. Is that cool? It’s a bag, and uh..it’s full of shit?
I want a grownup “Wuss� that encompasses not merely physical but also mental and moral cowardice that doesn’t also indicate women or gay people as especially possessed of those qualities.
that is a serious problem with AmEng. it’s so caught up in the patriarchy that it’s very, very hard to find language that expresses extreme disgust that doesn’t tie to gender.
Wanker is one of the alltime great insults, but it really doesn’t have to sort of utter contempt.
if your delivery is right, “hn. weak.” can actually be surprisingly effective at conveying what I need. but it has problems. first, it kinda makes you sound like a comic book villian. it’s also a complete expression, which means it doesn’t fit at all into a string of epithets.
and quibble, but I don’t have quite the same positive assessment of “douchebag” as you, Amanda. my understanding is the douchebag is “a bag of douche” which is to say, whatever you end up with after douching. (so what, vaginal fluids, odiferous chemicals, water, and maybe a bit of semen?)
granted, I think it attaches far more to bodily waste than gender, which means it’s fair game for non-sexists, but I certainly don’t read it as anti-sexist.
Samantha Vimes -
Because I like vulgarity. I mean, I’m aware (and frequently argue) that having particular words exist on a sliding scale of taboo-ness is sort of silly and which words they happen to be is largely accidental/meaningless, but I also argue that having them is useful. For whatever reason, I’m drawn to using the more vulgar words when they’re available; e.g., “dick” and “pussy” sound silly to me when actually used for a penis and a vagina, so I don’t use them, in favor of what I still instinctively process as more vulgar (and percussive) equivalents. Plus you can wrap a lot of imagery up into one vulgarity. I could say: “Hey, that guy there with the self-satisfied grin and the popped collar and his arm draped territorially over his girlfriend’s shoulder! Do you see how his grin is kind of sneer-ish, accentuated by his overlarge nostrils and do you hear the grating tone of his laugh? Doesn’t he look unpleasant? Like a jerk? Like a guy you’d want to punch for opening his mouth?” Or I could say: “Hey, check out the douchebag!” I find “pussy” just has a lot more force than “wimp” or “wuss”, even “pansy” is better when I want to indicate: “someone ineffectual, weak of spine and spirit, wilting like a delicate flower, limp of handshake and flimsy of conviction, the sort of man [if we’re talking about a man] who needs Vito Corleone to smack him across the face and shout: ‘You can act like a man!’” Essentially, I want all the qualities that maliciously have been considered feminine packaged into a word that indicates I don’t actually think they’re feminine qualities.
Douchebag is only sexist if you presume that douche is *good* - if, like the Dungeon Master from Wet Hot American Summer you rationalize that it’s a hygenic product and therefore positive, and the insult is that the douche *has to do with the vagina*. Since douche, from what I understand, is at best worthless and at worst causes infection, a douchebag merely accurately describes someone who on his best day contributes nothing positive and on his worst spreads irritating bacteria.
(George Carlin: “A cocksucker isn’t a bad man, it’s a good woman!”)
Quaterician, what’s wrong with coward, weakhearted, spineless, whiney degenerate?
Nothing at all. I just want him out of the White House.
I say cobag. Is that cool? It’s a bag, and uh..it’s full of shit?
Co-sign - non-gender-specific, so Dafydd ab Hugh and Michelle Malkin are equally c0bagz.
What about dickbag? Is that still anti-woman and sexist? ‘Cause I call people dickbags all the time, and it never occurred to me that I was insulting women. I just thought I was insulting dickbags.
I find that the best way to replace pussy (in my vocabulary) is just to add the cussing to some of the words listed by Samantha. “Coward” is a lame thing to call someone, but “cowardly piece of shit” rolls right off the tongue. “Spineless” is also pretty weak, but “motherfucking spineless jackass” has a nice ring. Or is mothefucker not kosher either?
My future brother-in-law and his friends (they’re Jewish) prefer pigfucker because of the bestiality reference and because it’s not kosher.
I actually agree with the fact the d-bag is kind of sexist. Let me put it this way: the point is that it implies that nothing is worse that the used liquid from a woman’s stuff. It could imply that the woman is what makes the bag o’ douche filthy and disgusting. Now we very much prefer and have for some time put forth the use of cobag, as Shannon alludes. Bag is not sexist, douche is. Not that we don’l love using it. And a bag of shit is way worse than a bag of douche. And since as far as I know, ladies only poop rose petals, this one may even go against the Patriarchy.
To add another data point: “scumbag” originated as a slang term for condom. “-bag” certainly doesn’t necessarily imply the feminine at all.
Co-sign - non-gender-specific, so Dafydd ab Hugh and Michelle Malkin are equally c0bagz.
I’d like to see them eat it.
Bonus 3B! observation: Followed a vee-hicle that had something advertising “Sons of Thunder Wrestling”. The script, however made that ‘T’ look like a ‘C’.
Chundermuffins.
Sheesh, a detect the faintest whiff of Emu about this whole affair.
i too have joined the cult of cobag-usage. it rolls off the tongue much more easily than a frenchie word like douche
Dr. S! You inestimable champion of language! Bless your heart.
[…] The whiff of emu emanates. Beware its beguiling odor. P/Am-andagon/munds? alerts us to a Bartowian controversy. It is important that you know about this situation, dear readers. However, if anyone from 3B goes over to look at the Emus and is disruptive, you are gonna get it. Save your disruption for Pandagon. When people have pages with the word “Space” in the title and the prefix is not “My” they don’t like intrusions of a seemingly patriarchichal nature. So don’t be Chumpwads. […]
my only response the whiny incoherent post in the link is:
“skank banger” is now my new favorite phrase.
is that how the kids talk these days? g’damn!
Limbaugh: No but he is a weiner
IS NOT!!!
Sadly, Michael Savage is.
My insult of preference is “hoser,” which probably fits right in with “dick,” but it satisfies my urge to offend without cussing. Sometimes, when I think someone is really vile, I just say “hose,” as in “Hugh Hewitt was such a ‘hose’ on the ‘Colbert Report.’”
Don’t be silly. Caitlin Flanagan smells like formaldehyde, not vinegar.
I want a grownup “Wuss� that encompasses not merely physical but also mental and moral cowardice that doesn’t also indicate women or gay people as especially possessed of those qualities.
I’ve always been fond of “chickenshit”. It’s a good descriptive word, and it doesn’t even insult the chickens.
I grew up amongst hillbillies and stumpjumpers, and swear to God, I never heard any adult use “fuck” or “dick” or “pussy” or any of those words. They’d say all mannerisms of what Justin Wilson called “colorful metaphors” - your shits and asses - as well as some good ol’ blasphemy. When my dear, sweet grandmother wants to express surprised disbelief, she’s wont to say “shit fire and hell fuzzy”, and my late Uncle Joel, when cussing an errant coon dog, could lay out a truly blistering stream of obscenities and never once used one of the truly naughty words.
And it just occurred to me that the only verbotten curse words from my family and community - your standard God-fearin’, lower-middle-class group of basically decent but don’t know no better white people - are ones that have to do with sex. Except titties, but everyone loves titties.
I’ve always seen “bag” as an enhancer. Someone who is a dickbag is actually an aggregation of dick. “Douchebag” is, of course, an entirely different issue, but I do generally think “-bag” is all right.
Justin Wilson called “colorful metaphors�
…I’m pretty sure that was Mr. Spock…
Hm. I’ve rarely used “douchebag” myself, though I do find it an apt term to describe some people. My preferred insults are “fucknuts,” “twat,” “asshat,” and “monkeyfuck.” Hey, only *one* of those could be construed as sexist! What do I win?
Scumbucket, for when men just need to freshen up a bit.
The whole cosmos of insults and cussing is a heartbreaker, because as wrong as some of these words ARE (and they are), they are bold, meaningful language, which is irreplacable. As a word-worshipping ninny writer/poet type, who is also a Feminist, this is never going to be win-win. I agree with Twisty and Amanda that there is NOTHING offensive about “Godbag”, for a bag truly does mean a cheap, flimsy container, sometimes called a sack. Twisty coined this word and it is new. “A cheap, flimsy container filled with god”. Both Jim and Tammy Faye come to mind. But some of the others……I have to say that Douchebag has always struck me as anti-woman, in spite of Amanda’s excellent lawyerly defense. I think the derivation is something like this: “What could be more disgusting than the device females use to clean their cum-holes?”. Cocksucker is also hopelessly tainted, and even “lame” and “weak” and rather awful. Pussy, Dick, Cunt, Motherfucker….they all are indefensible when it comes right down to it. As is dick-breath…..and queerbait. I suppose pantywaist is OK, as long as no one thinks they are saying Panty Waste. What is puzzling is that, when NOT truly CONSIDERING what the insult’s insultingness DERIVES from, the meaning seems unconnected to the ACTUAL meaning. The offensive cuss words seem to have their OWN meaning, as illustrated by the above chart. But they are connected. Now, the question is, what should we DO about it? I personally am a fan of the reclaimation of words, such as “queer” has been reclaimed. I am trying to claim “Feminazi” because, it is a FINE word, and I WANT them to be scared of us, plus it’s funny. (”Am I a Feminazi? Damn straight I am !! You Pussy !!!” (I am addressing his dope-addled hatefullness in this scene) I think the Handicapped should reclaim “Cripple” and the homeless should reclaim “beggar” and “tramp” because the words “handicapped” and “homeless” are such watered down euphemisms that they hide the truth. THIS COUNTRY IS FULL OF BEGGARS WANDERING THE STREETS !!! It is a shame on us before the nations. But back to the point: TRUTH. The most important thing is to not hide or water down the Truth. Should we say these insensitive words MORE THAN EVER, to Purify them and reclaim them in some way, where that might be possible, or do we substitute other, newly coined or forgotten insults? What we don’t want to do (at least I don’t want to do it) is veer so far into the land of tippy toe that the insults aren’t even insulting anymore !! Surely we can be creative and insult others with expressions such as “lying sack of shit” et cetera….yet something is lost with the abandonment of these popular insults, I already feel sad thinking of never using CUNT anymore.
Does anyone out there think “Nigger” has been reclaimed? Is it just in process, or is the attempt hopeless as long as one person says it hatefully? ASSHAT is a good one. (THat might be a Twisty too.) Perhaps the coinage of new terms IS the way to go.
Love the chart, Amanda, but how is Scott McLellan not both a tool and a douchebag? He’s the biggest, most visible tool of the Bush administration, for crying out loud.
Pussy, Dick, Cunt, Motherfucker….they all are indefensible when it comes right down to it.
Hmm. I don’t think so. Pussy, yes, as it’s used as a synonym for “coward” or “weak.”
But “dick” and “cunt” are both used to mean “badly behaved person, possibly but not necessarily of a particular gender.” Now, “cunt” carries more weight as an insult because in our society women’s genitalia are considered the lowest and most disgusting things possible. But it really shouldn’t carry more weight, and feminists should IMO try to use “cunt” the same way we’d use “dick.” That’s how the word is used in Britain and other places outside the U.S., if I’m not mistaken. I kind of like “dick” and “cunt” as insults, myself. They imply, IMO, that by behaving in a certain manner you have reduced yourself to one of your lowest and most animalistic functions as a human being. Also they just sound snappy.
Motherfucker I don’t see as problematic, either, because, well, fucking your mother is not the ideal state of affairs. (Of course this brings up the question of why “fatherfucker” isn’t an insult.)
I love “wanker” and I’m fighting the good fight to have more Americans use it. It’s so expressive. Some folks are just wankers.
“Scum” makes for good insults as well–scumbag, scumfuck, etc.
Posts like this are one of the major reasons I love this blog. Where else do you get this kind of dissection of insults? It’s great to see this topic treated with the seriousness it deserves.
Btw, Kathy, I call myself a feminazi too. It shuts right-wingers up real quick.
And “fuck” works well as an insult with a whole lot of different suffixes as well.
karpad,
Trust me, Justin Wilson said it first. I doubt, however, Mr. Spock picked it up from the Cajun Chef, so we’ll chalk it up to synchronicity and move along.
Being a proud raging feminazi- I hate the use of the word pussy as anything cowardly. We shoot babies out of pussies- nothing cowardly about that. I also love the word cunt, and don’t consider it an insult though I have launched it at a few girls who I knew would find it horribly offensive.
Instead I like to use the word asswipe- because it’s not even good enough to be an asshole, just the thing you clean the asshole up with.
What I really need is a word that will be generally understood that does the work of “pussy� without making me feel a tad guilty.
What’s the word for an *nsane *lown *osse fan again? Because if ANYONE needed to be casually oppressed by the language, they do.
“Quit being such a juggalug, come on!”
baby could work in place of pussy actually, though ideally, testicles should be refferred to in relation to weakness, because that’s pretty much all they’re about, we’re not talking about an organ that can squeeze out a grape fruit sized object, but a teeny tiny oversensitive boxing bag that bruises very easily. There’s no appropriate words though…
As Lanoire said, what definition of “tool” are we using that doesn’t cover Scott McClellan?
I never saw “godbag” as having sexist connotations; on the other hand, it’s IBTP, so I was probably predisposed not to see them anyway.
i too have joined the cult of cobag-usage. it rolls off the tongue much more easily than a frenchie word like douche
While I’m a fan of “cobag”–as I should be because properly placed that word has made me laugh so hard I got a snotbubble–I take issue with the idea that Frenchified words are less insulting. I would say that to Americans especially, invoking French words is a great way to make them feel small. And you can even combine them, by saying the Jeff Goldstein has a whiff of eau de cobag to him.
I believe that anyone who is wanting to learn to create new words, should check out this classic post by our own Gregor Samsa.
And seeing how insults are meant to offend, what’s the problem with any of them? Are some people advocating using insults that aren’t insulting? Kind of a waste of English isn’t it?
Cobags.
I don’t like to use real things as insults. It’s too obvious. So, douchebag- out. Now something made up like “you pathetic suckbag,” that’s more like it. I don’t know what a suckbag is- a tote full of suck by Amanda’s def- but I don’t want to be one.
Someone talked me out of using pussy as term of derision by reminding me, “but you like pussy,” which set off a a whole associative dissonanace reaction in my head. Because I sure don’t want to think of say Scott McLellan in the wrong context. Cocksucker falls into the same group, as I’m generally in favor of the idea, and it only holds power in a heteronormative context.
I’ll second fucknuts and asshat, and move for fucktard to be declared the ultimate synthetic curse.
That table up there is great.
I just think if I’m going to insult someone for being a sexist asshole patriarchist, I want my insult clean, untainted by any hint of a reference to pejoratives directed against women because we’re women.
Heart
What’s the word for an *nsane *lown *osse fan again?
There are so many - none of them flattering.
I do believe that this thread serves the purpose of getting them all derivations of “Complete waste of space” out there.
I think douchebags are in themselves tools of the patriarchy– the support the notion that pussys are gross, unclean and need to be cleaned with vinegar! Ewww!. Therefore I don’t think calling someone a douchebag is sexist. They’re a wrong, gross thing and I still can’t believe there is an aisle of them in the store. Along with all of the other feminine deodorizing/sanitizing anti-pussy products.
Also, douchebag is another term for enema, which is also just, ewwww.
zoe, I’ve taken to calling the fine products of the Summer’s Eve company “pussywash,” but the analogy doesn’t quite work, since I don’t think I’m being uptight when I brush my teeth prior to performing oral sex.
I’ve always been fond of ‘muppet’ as a non-swearing insult. It’s nicely demeaning when shouted.
R. Mildred:
I believe juggalo is the word you’re hunting for.
Non-gender specific and sadly under used:
Turdbreath
Asswipe
Cretin
Pisant
Scumsucker
Mouthbreather
Tardo
Sleazoid
Carbuncle
Highly gender specific but one I love:
Pimple on the Penis of Progress
So zoe’s back to the actual douche as claimed for therapeutic…which is the seque I’d hoped for.
So I’m gonna remind us about the probiotic douche…not yet invented, I think.
Lactobacillus (one or another other species) is good for all of that which is open (more or less) to the outer world and is some embryologic kin to the primitive gut.
‘Vaginosis’ whatever the hell that catch-all (don’t go there!) term means is that there is an imbalance in the normal flora of that place. It is as a condition, I have heard, both smelly and uncomfortable.
But lest us lovers of pussy be sidelined in all of this…I gotta confess that I never went down on one that I didn’t love…and often too the bearer thereof.
Having said that, I may often as well but inadvertently have introduced — in that act — other than ‘normal flora’…to her discomfiture.
So be sure your mouthparts are clean too, I guess.
And for reasons that are obvious…I will not be returning here until next week…at the earliest. So have away.
Boy did that last one set off the old Moderatobot. Hooo-Heee!
I’m a big fan of roll-your own insults. My current favorite is “Penis Monkey” but I’ve also used “Muffkin Buzzard” and “bum biter.” Just about anything can be combined with “muncher” for a decent insult - poo muncher, paste muncher…
Of course, most of my cussing takes place in traffic, where it really pays not to get too worked up: muttering “penguin gizzard munching penis monkey” under one’s breath helps vent irritation without raising blood pressure.
I myself prefer to just call someone a douche. It never would have occurred to me in a million years that calling someone a douchebag or a douche might be construed as sexist — until one day, as I sat quietly eating it, I read the etymology of cobag.
Even then, I disagreed that douchebag was sexist for the same reasons zoe’s listed.
Your chart contains several inaccuracies. As someone who punked out of Vietnam because of an ingrown hair on his ass, and who still is too chicken to debate any liberal callers on his radio show, Rush Limbaugh is most certainly a pussy (and a limpdick), as is Goldstein. And given that he was nothing more than a mouthpiece, an apparatus if you will (and I do) for the Bush administration, I am shocked that you would deny Scott McClellan “tool” status.
All that said, however, I am thrilled that you have come to the defense of the epithet “douchebag” and are standing bravely against all people — feminist, male-chauvinist, whoever — who would try to take joy from our lives. Including the joy of calling someone a douchebag.
Heart’s 100% right about this:
“I think the term “douche bag” is a sexual slur because male supremacists have pronounced women’s vaginas as repulsive, offensive and repugnant, with any object used to wash them most offensive and nasty of all. ”
But I’m not getting the connection between anything which ends in “bag” and sexism. There are lots of different types of bags in the world, right? Right?
RoP- I have heard in real life “muppet” used to great effect as an insult before. Er, well I used it, and it made me laugh, but muppet works best with “hole” on the end.
As for Eau de Cobag, Jeff G’s Drakkar Noir counts as such. Oh yes it does!
“Godbag” may not be sexist, but that doesn’t make it any less offensive to the religious.
How can douches even exist as commercial products anymore? What misguided souls buy them? Girls! Stop! Really.
And can you imagine working in the douche factory? Whole-selling the douche collection to retailers everywhere? Sometimes, my job seems, relatively, positive bliss.
I don’t think “___________bag” is uniquely female in origin. E.g., wasn’t scumbag initially a reference to a used condom?
As far as “pussy” goes, I regret the fact that the current use of this word has killed the tale “Puss in Boots.” In this day and age, who can say that title with a straight face and untrammeled mind? Or calling a cat, “Hereee, puss puss.” Gone, long gone. It is intriguing that the term for something so beloved of many (they like to look at it, they like to touch it … x-rated continuation) can be used by those same belovers to insult each other as unmanly. And, as such insult, it packs a good punch, much better than “wimp,” “weinie,” or “wuss.”
Now … “monkey.” I like that.
El wifo’s favorite is “Piss-infected cumbubble”.
You’re welcome. And here comes the moderatobot.
Douchebag is definitely one of my favourite insults. I’m glad it isn’t sexist, although I don’t really see, colloquially speaking, how it could be. I almost always use it, as do my friends, as an insulting term for big macho dudes that are full of themselves. I also sometimes call them “wads”, which is hopefully also non-sexist.
Gennerally speaking, if someone is insulting a sexist prick, it doesn’t seem fair to call their insults sexist unless they’re really crossing the line, but where that line is a bit hazy, perhaps. Here’s an situation: let’s say person A, a non-feminist dude who is a bit clueless but gennerally a nice guy is offended by person B creepily hitting on every woman in the area because person B is, well, a Douchebag. Then they have the following exchange.
A: You’re such a woman
B: Fuck You!
Now, is A in the wrong, using “woman” as an insult (propably the most obviously sexist insult imaginable), or does he get a pass because only a Douchebag like B would be offended by being called a woman? Is there a difference if A is “being ironic” or simply sincerely trying to think of something that would piss B off. In this case, I (and I think most people) would say A is clearly in the wrong, that’s a totally sexist insult, but it raises interesting questiongs. Replace “woman” with “pussy” or “girly-man” and is he still wrong? What about if he calls B “gay”?
The specific words themselves don’t matter–it’s the meaning behind the word that matters. If a word will be taken to be sexist by a specific audience, I won’t use it. But I will use the same word if it won’t be taken as sexist. So in a group of goyim, I could call a tightwad a Jew, but I would refrain from using that term around a Jewish person. Likewise, I might call someone a chum-monkey in an all-white group, but would honestly refrain from using the term around a black person, due to its unfortunate historical connotations.
If we take this too far, we can’t use “suck” because we think sucking is just fine.
a douchebag merely accurately describes someone who on his best day contributes nothing positive and on his worst spreads irritating bacteria.
Hence its frequent application (sorry) to Robert Novak.
I think part of the problem with forswearing the use of “douchebag” is that it is one of those intrinsically funny-sounding words. I mean, when Jon Stewart invokes “douchebaggery!”, it’s just funny. And remember the old Saturday Night Live sketch? If we ban it because of its association with female genitalia, then what happens to “fuck-” as an insult? And will this be a slippery slope leading to the abolition of “bugger”?
Remember the lesson of Yankee Doodle, people. The song was meant to make fun of the Colonists, and it was thrown back in Britain’s face. So I say, take the term for the stupid, useless, patriarchial Pouch O’ Salad Dressing and apply it to Jeff Goldstein unmercifully. ‘Cause he is objectively a douchebag. Even “wanker” doesn’t quite cut it.
So in a group of goyim, I could call a tightwad a Jew
I prefer the term “niggerly jew” personally, but each to their own I guess.
basic disclaimer
“Godbag� may not be sexist, but that doesn’t make it any less offensive to the religious.
It merely refers to someone who’s primary method of intimate hygiene involves doucheing with jesus, nothing offensive about that, because anyone who does use jesus as part of their internal hygiene routine deserves dirision, i mean, everyone knows that doucheing with jesus is the leading cause of bacterial infection in america these days but these people just keep using him as a douche anyway…
Weren’t we supposed to be co-opting the term “pussy” at some point? I want to be a pussy!
“Irrelevant turd-toucher” is an insult I usually feel pretty glad to use.
Also, the ever-popular Lysol douche ad.
hmm..I’ve never really used the term except to ridicule an assistant principal in high school who’s name was Dinucci (procounced of course de-noo-chee).
However, my 18 year old son uses the phrase “what a douche” as the ultimate insult…never bag, just plain douche. It has been applied to men and women pretty indiscriminately, and seeing as I find even the *idea* of such a product so profoundly wrong, I have no problem with him calling someone such a thing.
My preference to express that someone is a boil on the butt of humanity is the ever-popular “asshat” followed by “assclown”
At the risk of stepping on a joke: R., it’s “niggardly,” which is an actual word having nothing to do with the word “nigger,” but which sounds enough like it to have pissed people off a while back when it was ill-advisedly used.
another lynne,
Agreed the product is awful– screws up a woman’s natural chemistry and all that, etc.
But let’s don’t fool ourselves into thinking that’s why it’s used as insult. A douche cleans out women’s “nasty” inside parts– that’s the origin and the thought behind it. I’m not seeing how applying it to both men and women makes it any less sexist.
Are we really trying to decide if we should make words meant to offend less offensive? ‘Cause that’s pretty dumb.
I mean, if that’s the case, should we just go back to using ‘dumbdumbhead’? Or is that too offensive to mute people?
So in a group of goyim, I could call a tightwad a Jew, but I would refrain from using that term around a Jewish person.
yeah, you know what? fuck you. seriously man.
If you really think that’s any different from “when it’s just the white guys, it’s niggers and spics, but when they’re around it’s ‘african americans’ abd ‘hispanics’” you’re a dumbass.
the white boys club is one of the most obnoxious things on the planet. and that you seem to revel in it means I feel perfectly justified in ripping your left nostril out with a crowbar.
Asshole-based insults are good. Everyone’s got one, so it’s not gender-specific. Simple.
I like the archaic insults like “twerpface,” “twit,” “bonehead,” et al. It makes me stand out in a crowd.
At least now I know what “cobag” means. It’s been puzzling me for over a month but I was too embarassed to say anything.
I adore “godbag” beyond the telling of it. It just feels good rolling around in the mouth.
I like “douche” and “douchebag” for similar reasons, whether or not they have sexist origins. In any case, a douche is a disgusting, harmful thing, and perfectly descriptive of many people.
I also enjoy “fuckstain.”
karpad, it was sarcasm, sorry. The point was obviously stupid, and was supposed to just show that language itself does matter, not just the intended meaning.
i prefer pussy to vagina as the latter can be traced back to the word which means “sheath for a sword”, as anyone who has read “cunt” will know.
i would rather call someone a vagina than a pussy.
something about the insult coming out of my mouth makes me feel lik a douchebag.
I do belive that popularizing the word “turdblossom” has been G. W. Bush’s greatest contribution America.
I also like the phrase “buttmuppet”, as it implies someone unaware of their own ridiculousness, under the control of another- sort of like “tool”, but less malevolent.
btw, douchebag is an excellent insult, especially since I was previously unaware that the vagina was supposed to be the most repulsive thing concievable.
i prefer pussy to vagina as the latter can be traced back to the word which means “sheath for a sword�
I once encountered someone who claimed that if you use the word “pudendum,” even in utter ignorance of the etymology, that itself will be sufficient to make you ashamed of your genitalia.
I think that’s silly, and I think your objection to “vagina” is almost as silly. That’s widely regarded as a more or less neutral term for it. The fact that the Latin means “sheath” doesn’t mean that the English means “sheath” even to people who know Latin. People who feel the vagina is no more than a sheath won’t be fixed by being made to say “pussy” or “cunt” anyway.
Are we really trying to decide if we should make words meant to offend less offensive? ‘Cause that’s pretty dumb.
Not quite. We still want to offend the person we are insulting. We just don’t want to offend other innocent bystanders at the same time.
An example - My homophobic high school classmates calling someone who doesn’t like sports a “fag” - an insult to the non-sports lover AND an insult to homosexuals - especially those who do like sports and would hate to be compared to me… I mean to the non-sports lover…..
So, by calling some tool on a blog who said something really asinine about how we need to keep fighting in Iraq, while never volunteering for service himself, a pussy, you are insulting him (your intent) but also insulting women everywhere by implying that a pussy is weak, wimpy, and ineffectual (not your intent, one would assume).
Make sense?
Also, does anyone know if there is any truth to the rumor that pussy as synonym for wimp comes from the pussywillow, as in “wilting like a pussywillow”? I’d heard that somewhere.
Plus - anyone who feels that wussy can’t be a strong insult needs to buy/rent the DVDs of Titus (short-lived FOX sitcom) and listen to Stacy Keach deliver the line. Brilliant!
And what does that daft “Blinded by the Light” song saying anyway? Wrapped up like a douche? Should I be offended?
My grandmother’s worst insult: PBP, short for Peeled Back Prick. Usually reserved for Secretary (Secretory?) of the Interior James Watt, and others in Reagan’s cabinet. Locally, former MA house speaker Tommy Finneran was a classic PBP.
I guess circumcision was less prevalent in her day.
I have to admit, these sort of discussions always remind me of the time an older hippycrunchy couple practically destroyed a workshop session on anti-nuclear campaigning by insisting at every turn that we should NEVER call them “nuclear plants” because “plants are green and growing things” and “that makes people think they are nice”. For the remainder of the session, Emily Littella and Mr. ZigZag Sr. kept interrupting, insisting that we find something else to call them even if nobody would have clue #1 what we are talking about as a result.
Wankers.
Ms Kate, that story is classic.
I’ve been going with ‘doucheox’.
I don’t use “pussy” much… unless I know it will really, really piss off the recipient of the insult. Mostly dudes who spend way too much time proving their masculinity in large groups.
As the child of a special ed teacher, I am reclaiming my lost childhood with “retard.” And yes, I know how offensive that is, BUT I WAS DENIED!!!
Y’know, when I hear the word “pussy” as an insult, little naïve me automatically assumes it’s short for “pussycat”, as in someone who’s sweet and purring or something, and who lacks the necessary fortitude or attitude to get things done. I really do! Or at least when Jon Stewart says it, I do.
When I was in England last year with the Sibling, we stayed at one B&B on the River Avon that had a very very friendly stripey-and-white cat. Very friendly, as in he would jump on your lap purring loudly and demand you pet him while you were trying to eat your breakfast friendly. When we asked the owner what his name was, she sounded embarassed and said it was “Puss-Wuss”. She was embarassed, incidentally, because she thought it was kind of a dumb name.
Hmm. I’m realizing that I don’t swear very much (must be the Sugar and Candycanes Happy Bunny Land I obviously inhabit most of the time). Though I always liked “swut” as a swear–it just sounds so satisfying.
Nipplechips.
That Is All.
one of my co-workers is a big fan of “FarFigNewton”. I suspect that’s stolen from an 80’s TV show.
ms kate, the various lyrics sites claim the “Blinded By the Light” lyrics are “revved up like a deuce, another runner in the night.” No, it doesn’t make sense to me, either. I always thought it was something about “douche,” too.
And what does that daft “Blinded by the Light� song saying anyway? Wrapped up like a douche?
“There’s no loufa sponges, there’s no ripping of douches, and whatever the hell *you* said there’s none of that, alright?!”
http://www.unoriginal.com/tvl/blinded.html
Is nasty baggies okay? My church frowns on the word condem.
Wait wait wait… Scott McClellan not a tool? Huh? Are we talking about the same ‘Lil Scotty?
[…] …Far be it from me to speak harshly of others, but thank you, Amanda! […]
It isn’t something I’d previously considered, but it’s certainly possible that the suffix “bag” comes from a slur directed towards women but only if you’re talking from a British English background. I’ve never heard an American use it, but growing up with two Brit parents I’ve heard “that old bag” said many times and have used it myself in the past. It definitely only refers to women.
It’s not as obviously female-linked as things like pussy and twat, but I don’t much like the idea that everyone would defend the usage of “bag” out of hand (without properly considering the origins) while someone doing the same with pussy (”it’s just about a pussy cat! Don’t be so sensitive!”) would be shot down by most commenters here.
Labyrus, when I hear somebody being called a “wad” I think of a wadded-up, sperm-filled tissue. Now that’s an insult I can get behind.
Actually, wasn’t that from VW commercials in the early 90s? And spelled German, like farfeugneutten or something–with an umlaut.
rapped up like a duce; i.e. car; i.e., little duce coupe
“Dipshit” is another non-gender-specific insult I use pretty regularly. Hm. I just noticed that both of the insults I listed in this threa had to do with poop. This is kind of like “The Aristocrats.” The terms we use as insults also say something about us, the insulters.
Apparently, I have issues with poop. Well, with two dogs to clean up after, I guess I have an excuse.
Actually, wasn’t that from VW commercials in the early 90s? And spelled German, like farfeugneutten or something–with an umlaut.
Yes. And it spawned a plethora of stupid stoner/fratboy spoof tshirts: Farfrompuken, etc.
I responded here.
Heart
Women’s Space
The link doesn’t work, looks like:
Here it is:
http://womensspace.wordpress.com/2006/04/26/godbags-douche-bags-and-old-bags-and-why-it-matters/
Heart
[…] Amanda at Pandagon took issue with the idea that “douchebag” was sexist, writing: I want to defend “douchebagâ€? as a perfectly feminist insult. After all, it’s a bag full of douche and we good feminists know that douche is definitely a Tool of the Patriarchy. As such, I would suggest that when people use the term “douchebagâ€?, they’re actually calling them a tool, which is also a fine word that gets wielded often against the slack-jawed morons who reflexively support the patriarchy because they just know their reward is coming for it any day now. For instance, I once knew a guy who thought he was styling when he wore a tie with the Playboy bunny on it. That guy was both a douchebag and a tool, as they are synonymous. […]
“pendejo” is a great curse word, but there’s no real equivalent in English, sadly (”little pubic hair?”)
“queef” is an obscure one I’m rather fond of (”fart” noise during sex-shul innercourse)
occasionally I have been known to call people “scrotes,” or “scrotelet,” but it’s never really caught on.
there’s also choad, fuckstain, shitstain, shitbag, pusbag, dickcheese, and the ever-popular “ratfucker.”
I suppose I’m setting back the anti-patriarchal cause horribly, but I confess I adore these little hedgehogs:
http://www.rathergood.com/hedgehogs/
PharFignewton was Pinky’s love interest from the Pinky and the Brain TV show. Just felt like pointing that out.
Oh, and for Ms Kate, Garnet, et al:
http://www.kissthisguy.com/
The best part is that you can vote on whether the mangled lyric is better than the original.
an older, 18th centuryish insult for old (like, really old) women was to call them “baggage”, due to the dried up udder comparison (hang out w/ dairy cows, you’ll see), and in the way that they were elderly dependants, oldn’ in the way, people you had to cary around.
Shows up in some Richard Sheridan plays, proably some shakespeare as well.
I’ve always had a fondness for “titty baby” — specifically because it was the most derisive term of my childhood days as well as the fact that it’s considered completely politically incorrect. It’s all that loaded context that gives these words their power.
And Scott McLellan IS a titty baby
well I’ve always had a fondness for “titty baby” — specifically because it was the most derisive term of my childhood days as well as the fact that it’s considered completely politically incorrect. It’s all that loaded context that gives these words their power.
And Scott McLellan IS a titty baby
sorry ’bout the double post