Well, I wouldn’t eat at the home of a vegan, because, well, what? I don’t like tofu and my body (not to mention my palate) doesn’t take well to leafy greens (when I indulge in spinach, which I do like, I shit spinach leaves for the next 18-30 hours). I won’t eat faux meat or faux cheese because I don’t like the idea of eating imitation foods (”If you become a vegan, you can still have soy-and-millet patties!” “Yes, but if I don’t become a vegan I can continue eating hamburger”). It’s probably only the assholes who would object to the fact of animal products in the vicinity, leaving me free to enjoy my bo sate while they had something they liked.

“Thin” and “fit” are not exactly the same thing (and overly thin is the antithesis of fit), but they are related.

Crys:

The fat acceptance LITERATURE may not say it, but look through the above comments thread. You’ll see people implying that because some people who are thin are able to maintain their weight without dieting, that means that nobody needs to diet. You’ll see people saying that because people look down on fat people and guys have unrealistic expectations, that therefore any statement about the importance of not being overweight or obese should be dismissed.

And even on the issue you highlight– “thin does not equal healthy” is true enough, but there’s a difference between saying they aren’t equivalent (true) and saying they have nothing to do with each other. First, fat DOES equal unhealthy. It is simply NOT good for a person to be overweight. It increases the chances of heart disease and all sorts of other potentially fatal conditions. Second, all these studies are coming out that say that the way to extend your life is to stay relatively thin, restrict your caloric intake, and exercise. So while thin does not equal healthy, thinness and healthiness have something to do with each other.

Finally, let me say something about fat acceptance on its own terms. If the issue is, we shouldn’t discriminate against overweight people, I fully agree. If the issue is we should do what we can to be courteous towards them, again I agree. But I am not convinced that this is all that is involved. The fact is, people should not mistreat their bodies. All other things being equal, they shouldn’t overeat and should try to exercise. Being overweight is NOT something that one should “accept”. It’s something that one should try to change– subject to Amanda’s perfectly valid point about mental health issues. Telling people– as a group– that they should try to avoid being overweight and that they should try to lose weight if they are is not some form of invidious discrimination; it is no different from telling people they shouldn’t smoke or that they should drink only in moderation. This is an area where individuals should be treated with dignity and respect, and nobody should be subjected to mean or discriminatory treatment because of how much they weigh, but where public policy and cultural presumptions should favor people staying fit, healthy, and not overweight.

IMHO, I think it’s a measure of the inability of the fatphobic to accept that “thin” does NOT equal “healthy”, nor does “fat” equal “unhealthy” that causes their minds to automatically interpret “fat acceptance” as “poor health acceptance.”

It’s good to stay fit– NOT because the patriarchy wants women to do it, but because it’s healthy.

Then say “fit” from the start. Not “thin” or “skinny.” These are not interchangeable terms, no matter how many times they’re used as such.

And frankly, I think that the patriarchy doesn’t give two shits if I can run up a flight of stairs without being winded. I think it gives a shit if I either can fit into a Size 1 or want to expend years of energy and cash trying to do so. Only in a magical parallel universe woud somebody with my build and various physical issues becoming a Size 1 be “fit.” Even then, the patriarchy would regard it as, at most, a fortunate side effect, not the main point.

Of course I don’t want the woman in that hypothetical relationship to stay with that man. What I was pointing out was something else– that just because the patriarchy is pushing something on women doesn’t mean that doing the OPPOSITE thing is always the right thing to do. It’s good to stay fit– NOT because the patriarchy wants women to do it, but because it’s healthy.

Amanda:

I agree generally about the mental health issue. To me, that’s tied up with the patriarchal pressures on women to lose weight. That leads to binge-and-purge, anorexia, bulemia, yo-yo dieting, and all the rest. (Oprah Winfrey is actually a wonderful public example of how this can affect a woman.) So I don’t want women driving themselves crazy to stay thin.

But the problem is, when you read some of these comments, you can see a lot of people make exactly the assumption that you don’t make and that I don’t think one should make– that because fat is a feminist issue (which it is), anyone who says that people should lose weight– for any reason– is being horribly oppressive, blaming the victim, etc.

To me, this is pretty simple. A human being is better off, all other things being equal, if he or she is fit and thin. Of course, all things are not equal, and some people may be better off not trying to diet because of mental or physical health issues. But, frankly, in this comment thread I also see a lot of excuses. I see people arguing that because some thin people are able to stay thin despite eating badly and some people have a lot of trouble losing weight even if they eat right and exercise (which are true statements), therefore, no overweight person is ever responsible for his or her condition. I am sorry, that is not true. Most of the time, if one is overweight, it is because of a bad diet and lack of exercise. That isn’t even arguable.

I also see people in the comments thread complaining about how the world makes assumptions about fat folks. That’s assuredly true– though I bet some of it is actually projection, because I doubt these folks asked the people around them what their thoughts were about the person eating an ice cream cone or a salad. But let’s assume the whole world has it in for fat people– I don’t see how that means it’s a good idea to take time off one’s life by not trying to lose weight. Again, the point here is that just because there are bunch of idiots out there who come down way too hard on overweight women (and men) doesn’t change the health issues. It just means that there are insensitive idiots in the world. (I might add that there are insensitive idiots with respect to the smoking issue as well, which is why smokers are being prohibited now from lighting up even in places where they do not cause any health risk to the rest of the population. Insensitive idiots are a bad thing– and an even worse thing when they are also sexists.)

The point is exactly the one I made in my earlier post. Because of this horrible, crushing pressure that men put on women to stay artificially thin (and by the way, I actually think that the preference reflected in some comments for women who eat is part of the problem– many men expect their wives or girlfriends to stay thin while also expecting them to eat rich foods in their presence), it is easy for people who don’t want to deal with a weight problem that they really should deal with to say that there’s nothing wrong and that the only problem is the patriarchy imposing these expectations about how much they weigh. That’s just not true. Among other things, feminism should be concerned with women living long, healthy lives. And embracing the excesses of “fat acceptance” may be a natural response to the unreasonable expectations that sexist men impose on the female body, but it comes at the cost of giving up the fight against a condition (obesity) that causes too many people, including too many women, to meet an early demise.

you’d be surprised. really. half my friends are vegan, the other half are carnivores. a couple are wheat-intolerant, a few have IBS, and i’m a vegetarian who can’t eat soy. but we eat together all the time. again, it’s the difference between being a vegan and being an asshole.

Freudian slip or vagina dentata/castration fantasy?

Mmmm…pears.